Ford CEO Farley Talks EV Tax Credit, Chip Shortage

[ice-capades]

Ford CEO Farley Talks EV Tax Credit, Chip Shortage

Ford has committed $30 Billion to EVs by 2030

 

https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/ford-ceo-on-white-house-mtg-ev-tax-credits

 

"We have to catch up," he said, citing higher EV sales in China and Europe. "We’re going to do the investment in the product and capacity expansion and make vehicles as affordable as possible. We need the government’s help to make the switch to e-mobility through consumer incentives."

Edited January 26, 2022 by ice-capades

[rperez817]

The Fox Business article highlighted one of Farley's best strategies as Ford transitions to 100% electric vehicles.

 

Quote

"I think we’re one of the first to scale. We’re committed to 600,000 units in 22 months from now," Farley told Trimble. "

What makes us different [from other EV makers] is we’re electrifying our most iconic vehicles where we sell the best."

Edited January 26, 2022 by rperez817

[Oac98]

On 1/20/2022 at 8:43 AM, DillyDally said:

Omg... welp I guess ill see my 21 raptor in 23. this scheduling/production process is a joke

 

On 1/26/2022 at 2:00 PM, rperez817 said:

The Fox Business article highlighted one of Farley's best strategies as Ford transitions to 100% electric vehicles.

 

EV tax credits good for Americans who build ford EVs what about Canada and Mexico?? We’re kinda fucked unless our governments step up

[slemke]

1 hour ago, Oacjay98 said:

 

EV tax credits good for Americans who build ford EVs what about Canada and Mexico?? We’re kinda fucked unless our governments step up

Ev tax credits kinda bad for those Americans that pay taxes so someone else can pay an ADM on a BEV.  At this point, just drop the tax credits for EVs and focus the investment on tax credits for research and development and infrastructure improvements.

 

 

[Oac98]

Of course these CEOs will advocate for these tax breaks. Why wouldn’t they, right?

[rperez817]

26 minutes ago, Oacjay98 said:

Of course these CEOs will advocate for these tax breaks. Why wouldn’t they, right?

 

Yes sir Oacjay98. Nowadays CEOs that fail to take full advantage of tax breaks that already exist, and advocate for new tax breaks that don't already exist, get fired.

[Oac98]

5 hours ago, rperez817 said:

 

Yes sir Oacjay98. Nowadays CEOs that fail to take full advantage of tax breaks that already exist, and advocate for new tax breaks that don't already exist, get fired.

These corporations get tax breaks all the time and will continue to. Even up here in Ontario our governments are always pissing out money to invest in these billion dollar companies. That’s just the way it is like you said. 

[slemke]

4 hours ago, Oacjay98 said:

These corporations get tax breaks all the time and will continue to. Even up here in Ontario our governments are always pissing out money to invest in these billion dollar companies. That’s just the way it is like you said. 

And it will continue as long as governments use incentives to lure businesses to their jurisdictions.  Very similar to customers addiction to rebates and incentives on vehicles.

 

After Ford chose TN for BOC, Michigan upped the incentives to attract investment from GM.  NC gained an investment from Toyota after years of trying to lure in an auto manufacturer.  California wasn’t competitive and lost Tesla’s new factory to Tesla.  The list can go on and on.

[pictor]

10 hours ago, slemke said:

And it will continue as long as governments use incentives to lure businesses to their jurisdictions.  Very similar to customers addiction to rebates and incentives on vehicles.

 

After Ford chose TN for BOC, Michigan upped the incentives to attract investment from GM.  NC gained an investment from Toyota after years of trying to lure in an auto manufacturer.  California wasn’t competitive and lost Tesla’s new factory to Tesla.  The list can go on and on.

Any the race to bottom continues

[akirby]

1 hour ago, pictor said:

Any the race to bottom continues

How does trading $1M in tax revenue for many times that in new jobs and new revenue equal a race to the bottom?  It’s good business and good for residents,

[rperez817]

4 hours ago, akirby said:

How does trading $1M in tax revenue for many times that in new jobs and new revenue equal a race to the bottom?  It’s good business and good for residents,

 

State and local governments "competing" with each other to give away as much money as possible to big corporations like Ford is the very definition of "race to the bottom" as pictor suggested. It's good for politicians, not good for residents and existing businesses (especially small businesses). New York Times wrote about this 9 years ago and it's an even bigger problem nowadays.  https://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/06/opinion/race-to-the-bottom.html

 

Competition among states and cities to lure businesses in hopes of creating jobs is not new, but it has become more fierce in recent years. An investigation by The Times found that state and local governments are giving out $80 billion a year in tax breaks and other subsidies in a foolhardy, shortsighted race to attract companies. That money could go a long way to improving education, transportation and other public services that would have a far better shot at promoting real economic growth.

Instead, with these giveaways, politicians and officials are trying to pick winners and losers, almost exclusively to the benefit of big corporations (aided by highly paid lobbyists) at the expense of small businesses. Though they promise that the subsidies are smart investments, far too often the jobs either don’t materialize or are short-lived, leaving the communities no better off.

[AGR]

I stopped reading after New York Times...

[FordBuyer]

2 hours ago, rperez817 said:

 

State and local governments "competing" with each other to give away as much money as possible to big corporations like Ford is the very definition of "race to the bottom" as pictor suggested. It's good for politicians, not good for residents and existing businesses (especially small businesses). New York Times wrote about this 9 years ago and it's an even bigger problem nowadays.  https://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/06/opinion/race-to-the-bottom.html

 

 

 

 

Crony Capitalism lives on. The tax burden gets shifted to the little guy creating even more income inequality. 

[akirby]

27 minutes ago, FordBuyer said:

 

Crony Capitalism lives on. The tax burden gets shifted to the little guy creating even more income inequality. 

Maybe in some cases but not for something like a new automobile factory.  They create thousands of new good paying jobs that trickle down to real estate, restaurants and other shops and service industries.  West Point GA and the Kia factory is a great example.

[mackinaw]

1 hour ago, akirby said:

Maybe in some cases but not for something like a new automobile factory.  They create thousands of new good paying jobs that trickle down to real estate, restaurants and other shops and service industries.  West Point GA and the Kia factory is a great example.

 

You may find this interesting.  The writer makes the argument that most states are pursuing the wrong business model.  "Knowledge-based" jobs are much higher paying than "production" jobs.  For example, Ford's Corktown Project (knowledge-based jobs) is much more important to Michigan than giving incentives to land a new GM BEV and battery plant (production jobs).  Lot of facts and figures that I didn't know.  And being a Michigander, it gave me pause.

 

https://www.crainsdetroit.com/voices-chad-livengood/why-fords-corktown-project-may-mean-more-future-next-battery-plant

[FordBuyer]

17 minutes ago, mackinaw said:

 

You may find this interesting.  The writer makes the argument that most states are pursuing the wrong business model.  "Knowledge-based" jobs are much higher paying than "production" jobs.  For example, Ford's Corktown Project (knowledge-based jobs) is much more important to Michigan than giving incentives to land a new GM BEV and battery plant (production jobs).  Lot of facts and figures that I didn't know.  And being a Michigander, it gave me pause.

 

https://www.crainsdetroit.com/voices-chad-livengood/why-fords-corktown-project-may-mean-more-future-next-battery-plant

 

If you are building a new plant in the middle of a farm field in sparsely populated area of state, then crony capitalism can make some economic sense. Ditto for Brownfield projects. 

 

But for example, Ford got huge state and municipal tax breaks to retool MAP and I doubt if Wayne, MI has ever fully recovered. It sure didn't really help its tax base as Ford received huge tax breaks for many years going forward. Soon after, Focus ended and lower production of Ranger until Bronco came online.

 

Wayne is a lower income community that very few are flocking to. Not a ton of economic development. Michigan Avenue has seen its best days. Some economic development in Canton area, but not on other side of I275. 

 

MI has been giving huge tax breaks to autos for decades, and population continues to leave the state. At least MI is about to get rid of the pension tax.....reason for many seniors like myself to leave the state. Snyder tried to shift the tax burden to seniors with pensions resulting in mass exodus of educated seniors. 

[akirby]

1 hour ago, mackinaw said:

 

You may find this interesting.  The writer makes the argument that most states are pursuing the wrong business model.  "Knowledge-based" jobs are much higher paying than "production" jobs.  For example, Ford's Corktown Project (knowledge-based jobs) is much more important to Michigan than giving incentives to land a new GM BEV and battery plant (production jobs).  Lot of facts and figures that I didn't know.  And being a Michigander, it gave me pause.

 

https://www.crainsdetroit.com/voices-chad-livengood/why-fords-corktown-project-may-mean-more-future-next-battery-plant

Interesting data.  Of course cities should be pursuing knowledge based jobs.  But it’s not an either/or situation - should be both.  And the competition for manufacturing jobs vs knowledge jobs is totally different.  Knowledge jobs are competing with Silicon Valley and sexy tech companies.  Michigan isn’t California.

[FordBuyer]

22 minutes ago, akirby said:

Interesting data.  Of course cities should be pursuing knowledge based jobs.  But it’s not an either/or situation - should be both.  And the competition for manufacturing jobs vs knowledge jobs is totally different.  Knowledge jobs are competing with Silicon Valley and sexy tech companies.  Michigan isn’t California.

 

MI has had a "brain drain" going on for decades. For example, most U of M graduates move out of state after graduation. My wife has two kids...both U of M graduates and they both work in Norther CA. Ditto for Michigan State.

 

Dan Gilbert stayed and became a billionaire with Quicken Loans, but that is an exception. Most leave and want nothing to do with feast and famine auto industry. MI will not get any better until it has a true diversified economy not solely based upon autos, mortgages, and pizza. 

 

The bankruptcy of GM and Chrysler enlightened a lot of MI college graduates....get out of state and find more stable employment.

 

[Footballfan]

3 hours ago, mackinaw said:

 

You may find this interesting.  The writer makes the argument that most states are pursuing the wrong business model.  "Knowledge-based" jobs are much higher paying than "production" jobs.  For example, Ford's Corktown Project (knowledge-based jobs) is much more important to Michigan than giving incentives to land a new GM BEV and battery plant (production jobs).  Lot of facts and figures that I didn't know.  And being a Michigander, it gave me pause.

 

https://www.crainsdetroit.com/voices-chad-livengood/why-fords-corktown-project-may-mean-more-future-next-battery-plant

I wouldn't give this Cranes article much credence.  It was written by one of "our best and brightest" who has no concept of economics or the modern workplace.  All cities have a train station, cubicle farms, and restaurants.  I'm sure Tennessee is much more happier with BOC then a choo-choo train station, and quite frankly, the city of Detroit would have been much better off.

 

The small-minded writer of the Cranes article has no concept of spinoff jobs that manufacturing brings, and does not realize that not all students have the aptitude for one of these "knowledge jobs" and there is a place for manufacturing jobs in any economy.  I'm sure that there,will be a lot of knowledge jobs created with Ford's new flagship plant in Tennessee.  

 

A lot of the knowledge jobs are remote anyway.  I know someone that works at Quicken and they have not set foot in their office since Covid started.  Most times he is not even in Michigan.

 

So in response to this article that Tennessee has a $6 billion Ford investment and Detroit has a $750 million train station, I'll take the former every time.

 

 

 

[Footballfan]

54 minutes ago, FordBuyer said:

 

MI has had a "brain drain" going on for decades. For example, most U of M graduates move out of state after graduation. My wife has two kids...both U of M graduates and they both work in Norther CA. Ditto for Michigan State.

 

Dan Gilbert stayed and became a billionaire with Quicken Loans, but that is an exception. Most leave and want nothing to do with feast and famine auto industry. MI will not get any better until it has a true diversified economy not solely based upon autos, mortgages, and pizza. 

 

The bankruptcy of GM and Chrysler enlightened a lot of MI college graduates....get out of state and find more stable employment.

 

A lot of people do not realize is that when q core industry shrinks, so does the knowledge base.  

[Footballfan]

1 hour ago, akirby said:

Interesting data.  Of course cities should be pursuing knowledge based jobs.  But it’s not an either/or situation - should be both.  And the competition for manufacturing jobs vs knowledge jobs is totally different.  Knowledge jobs are competing with Silicon Valley and sexy tech companies.  Michigan isn’t California.

And Michigan does not have the warm climates that Cali and Texas have.  There is no worse place to be than in the upper Midwest in the dead gray of winter. 

[rperez817]

4 hours ago, akirby said:

Maybe in some cases but not for something like a new automobile factory. 

 

Findings of studies done by economists about state and local governments "competing" to hand out public money to specific big corporations for building new or expanded facilities are very clear. In almost all cases the net benefit to local economies and residents of these targeted incentives is nil.

 

 

[jcartwright99]

1 hour ago, FordBuyer said:

 

MI has had a "brain drain" going on for decades. For example, most U of M graduates move out of state after graduation. My wife has two kids...both U of M graduates and they both work in Norther CA. Ditto for Michigan State.

 

Dan Gilbert stayed and became a billionaire with Quicken Loans, but that is an exception. Most leave and want nothing to do with feast and famine auto industry. MI will not get any better until it has a true diversified economy not solely based upon autos, mortgages, and pizza. 

 

The bankruptcy of GM and Chrysler enlightened a lot of MI college graduates....get out of state and find more stable employment.

 

 

When I graduated in 05, I had a really hard time finding a job out of college in Michigan. I took IT contractor jobs which paid decent but none of the perks. A lot of the recruiters and company HR staff had indicated that companies had been laying off employees pretty steadily since 2000. Many of the recruiters had said that the folks that were taking these entry level IT jobs had a ton of experience. Total disadvantage for me with just part time IT work and internship.

 

I took the hint and looked in Chicago. In two weeks I had a higher paying job in Fin tech.  By the time the recession hit, Fin Tech was booming and Michigan had almost been in recession for 10 years. I haven't looked back since. Michigan has somewhat recovered but it will never be like the 90's ever again.

 

Chicago is littered with MI transplants who want nothing to do with constant roller coaster of the auto industry. Especially in IT where, every 5 years there are massive IT layoffs. They outsource to India and then that's terrible. Then they hire like nobody's business to get back to inhouse (see GM's announcement this week). I only know about 20% of people I went to school with that stayed in Michigan. 

[rperez817]

Back to Jim Farley's statement "whatever it’s going to take" regarding government to consumer incentives to help speed the transition to 100% electric vehicles.

 

Hopefully Farley supports the proposal that Coltura put forth last year that focuses on getting gasoline Superusers to switch to BEV as quickly as possible. This is a better approach than a flat incentive structure for tax credits to BEV buyers, including the proposal in the Build Back Better bill. Gasoline Superusers Report — Coltura - moving beyond gasoline

 

• Drivers are highly unequal in their gasoline consumption. The drivers in the top 10% of gasoline consumption each use upwards of 1,000 gallons of gasoline each year. 
• Collectively Gasoline Superusers burn nearly one-third of all U.S. gasoline consumed in the U.S. by light duty vehicles. This is more than the bottom 60% of users combined. The top 20% of gasoline users burn 48%.
• Revising EV incentives to focus on displacing gasoline consumption will cut gasoline use faster, more efficiently, and at lower cost. 
• Getting Gasoline Superusers into EVs as quickly as possible is critical to hitting our climate goals

 

Key Characteristics of Gasoline Superusers:

• Use more than 1,000 gallons of gasoline a year
• Drive three times more miles than the average driver
• Are more likely to drive pickups and SUVs
• Are more likely to live in rural areas
• Have similar income and educational levels as the general population
• Have lower average income levels than current EV drivers
• Spend on average 8% of their income on gasoline — more than twice that of average drivers.

 

[FordBuyer]

1 hour ago, Footballfan said:

And Michigan does not have the warm climates that Cali and Texas have.  There is no worse place to be than in the upper Midwest in the dead gray of winter. 

 

MN has a very diversified tech economy and winters there are worse than MI. And Western MI has a very diversified economy even with its Lake Effect snow storms. Grand Rapids/Holland Metro Area is a great place to live if you enjoy snow.