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I can think of 8+ gas stations within a ~2 mile radius of where I'm sitting right now... 145k in the whole US doesn't seem accurate to me.

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20 hours ago, atomcat68 said:

This!

I don't know how much more convenient it can get that not having to drive somewhere to fuel the car. Unless you make long trips, this is a great advantage.

 

Also you have the potential to charge a lot of places you visit regularly. Going to work, the grocery store, a shopping mall, etc.are all opportunities to recharge. 

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On 5/20/2022 at 10:48 PM, slemke said:

Wouldn’t a better comparison be chargers compared to pumps?  I’m pretty sure the charging station number is the number of charges, not locations to charge.  Also need to factor in the throughput of how much time is spent at the pump vs charger.  Home charging for daily driving takes some of the load off public charges, but not for trips.

 

 

 

Yeah, that's what I was pointing out above, especially when you're spending much more time at a charger vs. a pump.  You'll have to have a lot more chargers at a given location to equal the "refill" ability of a pump.

 

But that also gets into the argument of charging at home, so it's hard to make a direct comparison.

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35 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

 

Yeah, that's what I was pointing out above, especially when you're spending much more time at a charger vs. a pump.  You'll have to have a lot more chargers at a given location to equal the "refill" ability of a pump.

 

But that also gets into the argument of charging at home, so it's hard to make a direct comparison.


I hate to be a broken record but a lot of folks can’t charge at home because they’re in an apartment or condo or older home with limited electrical capacity.  That’s why fast widely available public charging is a must for widespread BEV adoption.

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5 hours ago, akirby said:


I hate to be a broken record but a lot of folks can’t charge at home because they’re in an apartment or condo or older home with limited electrical capacity.  That’s why fast widely available public charging is a must for widespread BEV adoption.

Keep repeating it and maybe it will sink in.  There are plenty of places that will need public chargers because charging at home is not an option.  For those locations where at home charging is feasible, fewer public chargers are needed.

 

RMC and I are talking about the required number of charging locations and chargers at those locations vs pumps.  Without government interference the market would determine the locations and number of chargers.  Neighborhoods without electric cars and newer neighborhoods with garages and plenty of electrical capacity for home charges wouldn’t get as many or any chargers but would have gas stations.  Fast chargers will be needed along interstate travel corridors and high traffic areas for those that need to fill up on the go.

 

Now at some point, we may need a rural electrification act 2.0 to finish building out the infrastructure.  But, Tesla has been managing to do that on their own as they have now added super chargers along I94 in ND.

 

I read recently that Tesla has raised the prices at their super chargers in California to $0.58 per kWh.  So much for savings a 40mpg Maverick hybrid comes out ahead in cost of ownership.  Hopefully Ford adds more hybrids to the portfolio including Mustang and if it becomes a reality Thunderbird.

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15 hours ago, akirby said:


I hate to be a broken record but a lot of folks can’t charge at home because they’re in an apartment or condo or older home with limited electrical capacity.  That’s why fast widely available public charging is a must for widespread BEV adoption.

At one time, houses and buildings didn't have electricity at all or plumbing, or oil heat or natural gas, but the old houses were fitted with it over time or replaced. This is not an overnight change which is why I don't believe they hype that we will all drive BEV in a few years. At one time gas stations weren't a thing and you bought it at a pharmacy of all places.

 

Another idea is that a city like Boston can place parking meters in every conceivable place, then why can't they all be charging stations too. You'd have a captive audience to pay the meter. 

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1 hour ago, atomcat68 said:

At one time, houses and buildings didn't have electricity at all or plumbing, or oil heat or natural gas, but the old houses were fitted with it over time or replaced. This is not an overnight change which is why I don't believe they hype that we will all drive BEV in a few years. At one time gas stations weren't a thing and you bought it at a pharmacy of all places.

 

Another idea is that a city like Boston can place parking meters in every conceivable place, then why can't they all be charging stations too. You'd have a captive audience to pay the meter. 


I think public charging is a better cheaper solution since most will only have to charge once a week or so, but we’ll certainly see changes on the residential side.

 

Just thought of something - if most residents in apartments or condos only need to charge once per week maybe you could install a few fast chargers and assign residents charging times in 3 hour blocks once or twice a week.

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21 minutes ago, akirby said:


I think public charging is a better cheaper solution since most will only have to charge once a week or so, but we’ll certainly see changes on the residential side.

 

Just thought of something - if most residents in apartments or condos only need to charge once per week maybe you could install a few fast chargers and assign residents charging times in 3 hour blocks once or twice a week.

 

I know a lot of new apartments and condos being built here are coming with charging stations in the car ports. And I would imagine over time many complexes will have to retrofit them to be competitive as more buy plugins or full electrics. 

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4 hours ago, atomcat68 said:

At one time, houses and buildings didn't have electricity at all or plumbing, or oil heat or natural gas, but the old houses were fitted with it over time or replaced. This is not an overnight change which is why I don't believe they hype that we will all drive BEV in a few years. At one time gas stations weren't a thing and you bought it at a pharmacy of all places.

 

That is what too many people are getting their axles wrapped around.

 

You buy a new ICE/Hybrid in say 2034, before a 2035 of BEV only production of vehicles....there is no one holding a gun to your head that you'll need to replace it because of that and you can enjoy it for an average of 12.1 years, which is currently the average life span of a car. 

 

I'm sure that once the market hits a certain amount of BEVs on the marketplace, there will be incentives for people who have older cars to switch over or they will be prodded to do so via fines etc (with in reason)...but at that point there shouldn't be much in the way of excuses for not getting one either.

 

Just as another example, the first truly useful SUV/CUV was Jeep Cherokee in 1984, but I'd rather go with the 1989 Explorer instead because it had better legroom in the rear. The SUV market didn't get really stupid till almost 10 years later and didn't become market leading till 2015...expect to see something similar happen with BEVs. 

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On 5/23/2022 at 1:28 PM, silvrsvt said:

 

That is what too many people are getting their axles wrapped around.

 

You buy a new ICE/Hybrid in say 2034, before a 2035 of BEV only production of vehicles....there is no one holding a gun to your head that you'll need to replace it because of that and you can enjoy it for an average of 12.1 years, which is currently the average life span of a car. 

 

I'm sure that once the market hits a certain amount of BEVs on the marketplace, there will be incentives for people who have older cars to switch over or they will be prodded to do so via fines etc (with in reason)...but at that point there shouldn't be much in the way of excuses for not getting one either.

 

Just as another example, the first truly useful SUV/CUV was Jeep Cherokee in 1984, but I'd rather go with the 1989 Explorer instead because it had better legroom in the rear. The SUV market didn't get really stupid till almost 10 years later and didn't become market leading till 2015...expect to see something similar happen with BEVs. 


the difference is SUVs were never/won’t ever be mandated like BEVs.

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2 hours ago, rmc523 said:


the difference is SUVs were never/won’t ever be mandated like BEVs.

But also look at engines-by the 1980s almost all cars where some form of fuel injection due to emissions and fuel economy concerns that was implemented due to government regulations in the 1970s. 

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