GearheadGrrrl Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 FoMoCo is just one of UAW's three major employers and hundreds of smaller employers. Bill Ford may think his paternalism will play well with UAW members, but many know the history of Ford's abusive paternalism before World War II and union recognition, delivered by spying "social workers" and company thugs. The visual of Ford's goons attacking peaceful workers at the Ford Hunger March and Battle of the Overpass is forever seared in their multi generational memories and no Ford is ever going to ever earn their trust, and especially not Bill Ford's latest version of his great grandpa's paternalism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 35 minutes ago, GearheadGrrrl said: but many know the history of Ford's abusive paternalism before World War II and union recognition, delivered by spying "social workers" and company thugs. I wouldn’t bet on that. Most of the people younger than me have zero clue about any of that. Hell, there’s some that think there’s a legal limit on how many hours we can work and think Ford is breaking federal law by scheduling OT. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 25 minutes ago, GearheadGrrrl said: FoMoCo is just one of UAW's three major employers and hundreds of smaller employers. Bill Ford may think his paternalism will play well with UAW members, but many know the history of Ford's abusive paternalism before World War II and union recognition, delivered by spying "social workers" and company thugs. The visual of Ford's goons attacking peaceful workers at the Ford Hunger March and Battle of the Overpass is forever seared in their multi generational memories and no Ford is ever going to ever earn their trust, and especially not Bill Ford's latest version of his great grandpa's paternalism. Give me a break! The Battle of the Bridge?? How many years ago? Was Bill Ford even on this earth then? Oh you forgot about the "five dollar day"..Why don't you talk about the recent UAW leaders who are in the "can"..and if not in jail they paid how much in fines? And as to your comment that many know the history of Ford's "abusive paternalism" probably a greater percentage think Walter Reuther was a tackle for the Lions. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grbeck Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Bob Rosadini said: Give me a break! The Battle of the Bridge?? How many years ago? Was Bill Ford even on this earth then? Oh you forgot about the "five dollar day"..Why don't you talk about the recent UAW leaders who are in the "can"..and if not in jail they paid how much in fines? And as to your comment that many know the history of Ford's "abusive paternalism" probably a greater percentage think Walter Reuther was a tackle for the Lions. The Battle of the Overpass happened in 1938...when William Clay Ford, Sr. (father of Bill Ford) was a teenager and not even married! Does UAW leadership really believe that they are going to rally the troops by recalling a violent labor dispute that happened over 75 years ago (not to mention that all of the key players in that fracas have been dead and buried for decades)? And this mentality will inspire organization efforts at the transplant factories? Really? As for Ford's "abusive paternalism" - from what I've seen over the past 40 years, "abusive paternalism" on the part of Ford apparently means paying line workers very good wages and benefits, and handling the UAW with kid gloves. Edited October 23, 2023 by grbeck 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurgeh Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 1 hour ago, fuzzymoomoo said: Who, Fain? I would agree but I fear he’s going to be re-elected in however many years when he’s up for it. If that's the case, then I really fear for Ford's future. Not just declining competitiveness due to having a much greater labor cost than Tesla and the transplants, but the danger of, as I had suggested earlier, an increasingly radicalized and disgruntled workforce, turning all UAW plants into a version of Chicago, with its dysfunction, corruption, and poor build quality. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 11 minutes ago, Gurgeh said: If that's the case, then I really fear for Ford's future. Not just declining competitiveness due to having a much greater labor cost than Tesla and the transplants, but the danger of, as I had suggested earlier, an increasingly radicalized and disgruntled workforce, turning all UAW plants into a version of Chicago, with its dysfunction, corruption, and poor build quality. He thinks he can organize Tesla and the imports. He can try if he wants, there’s no harm in trying other than his reputation on the line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 54 minutes ago, grbeck said: As for Ford's "abusive paternalism" - from what I've seen over the past 40 years, "abusive paternalism" on the part of Ford apparently means paying line workers very good wages and benefits, and handling the UAW with kid gloves. Not to mention being the largest employer of UAW workers in the nation and building more vehicles in the US than anyone else. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 39 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said: He thinks he can organize Tesla and the imports. He can try if he wants, there’s no harm in trying other than his reputation on the line. But don’t hold the current mfrs hostage to try and do it. Strikes and other adversarial events are the primary reason these transplant workers don’t want a union. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 They just called the Ram plant in Sterling Heights out on strike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HotRunrGuy Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 31 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said: They just called the Ram plant in Sterling Heights out on strike. So where is next, Flint or Ft Wayne? HRG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ice-capades Posted October 23, 2023 Author Share Posted October 23, 2023 11 minutes ago, HotRunrGuy said: So where is next, Flint or Ft Wayne? HRG Or perhaps, GM's Arlington plant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 45 minutes ago, HotRunrGuy said: So where is next, Flint or Ft Wayne? HRG He threatened both Arlington and Flint on Friday so flip a coin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamweasel Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 3 hours ago, GearheadGrrrl said: FoMoCo is just one of UAW's three major employers and hundreds of smaller employers. Bill Ford may think his paternalism will play well with UAW members, but many know the history of Ford's abusive paternalism before World War II and union recognition, delivered by spying "social workers" and company thugs. The visual of Ford's goons attacking peaceful workers at the Ford Hunger March and Battle of the Overpass is forever seared in their multi generational memories and no Ford is ever going to ever earn their trust, and especially not Bill Ford's latest version of his great grandpa's paternalism. This is so off-base...... For the record, the ONLY reason the F-150 is even built at the Rouge is because of Bill Ford. I was one of the managers of that '09-14 F-150 program and when that program started we closed Norfolk and were looking for another place to build it. Tere were other lower-cost options - including some non-UAW facilities. (Namely Mexico.) Bill Ford said no way. They decided to pay a lot more money to make it work in Dearborn. I keep thinking of those moments during this strike and part of me wishes they'd shut them all down and go non-union across the board. Would be better for the company in the long run. There have also been proposals over the years to even relocate the HQ out of the country. (Like Eaton when they "moved" to Ireland.) But again, the Ford's won't let it happen even though they know it would be better financially in the long run. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 Hmn..I heard a newscast this AM that said Fain on Friday said there would be no more expansion of striking facilities or words to that affect. Guess the boys at the Ram plant made a move on their own...can't be a case of Fain being misquoted? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 2 hours ago, akirby said: Not to mention being the largest employer of UAW workers in the nation and building more vehicles in the US than anyone else. Actually they aren't 57000 workers with Ford 100k are from universities and the like 1/2 of UAW members don’t work for the auto industry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 9 minutes ago, silvrsvt said: Actually they aren't 57000 workers with Ford 100k are from universities and the like 1/2 of UAW members don’t work for the auto industry Ford is the largest single employer of UAW workers. That’s the distinction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 28 minutes ago, Bob Rosadini said: Hmn..I heard a newscast this AM that said Fain on Friday said there would be no more expansion of striking facilities or words to that affect. Guess the boys at the Ram plant made a move on their own...can't be a case of Fain being misquoted? Nope, that’s not what he said. He said there would be no more on Friday but there could be more at any time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 8 minutes ago, silvrsvt said: Actually they aren't 57000 workers with Ford 100k are from universities and the like Universities and the like is not a single employer. Ford is the largest. California university system is only 48000. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GearheadGrrrl Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 2 hours ago, iamweasel said: This is so off-base...... For the record, the ONLY reason the F-150 is even built at the Rouge is because of Bill Ford. I was one of the managers of that '09-14 F-150 program and when that program started we closed Norfolk and were looking for another place to build it. Tere were other lower-cost options - including some non-UAW facilities. (Namely Mexico.) Bill Ford said no way. They decided to pay a lot more money to make it work in Dearborn. I keep thinking of those moments during this strike and part of me wishes they'd shut them all down and go non-union across the board. Would be better for the company in the long run. There have also been proposals over the years to even relocate the HQ out of the country. (Like Eaton when they "moved" to Ireland.) But again, the Ford's won't let it happen even though they know it would be better financially in the long run. As a person with first hand knowledge, I value your opinion. Ford's paternalism is a two edge sword, and there are many times when they faced down potential losses and did the right thing during WW2 and the polio and COVID-19 epidemics. On the other side of the sword there is a sad legacy of anti-semitism, violent union busting, and now refusing to share Ford's wealth with the workers who created it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamweasel Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 7 minutes ago, GearheadGrrrl said: refusing to share Ford's wealth with the workers who created it. Now that's where you and I disagree. Why do UAW members feel they are entitled to earn more money than the same jobs at Ford's competitors? Fain & Co accuse Ford Management of greed but that goes both ways. In this country, we have two groups of plant workers in this industry. (Non-union and union.) One of them, who gets paid 10-30% less depending on the metric is currently happy and working and the group that is paid the highest is the one striking. I can't seem to comprehend that. The fact of the matter is, that going back years those jobs were WAY overpaid and that's why some other wages have outpaced the UAW factory worker wages. Just because Ford and GM paid uncompetitive wages before doesn't mean they should keep doing it. That's one of the things that helped Honda, Toyota, Kia, etc gain footholds in this country to begin with. They had extra money to actually spend on the cars...... If you have 2 pizza companies, and both sell the Pizza for $15: Company A spends $10 on ingredients and $5 on everything else (stores, employees, etc) vs Company B spends $7 on ingredients and $8 on everything else Who do you think is going to make the better Pizza? 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 The question is how long regular UAW members can tolerate remaining on strike and subsisting on $500/week, I wonder how many of them were originally convinced that this would all over by now. It’s going to get harder as we get into November and December….. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 6 minutes ago, jpd80 said: The question is how long regular UAW members can tolerate remaining on strike and subsisting on $500/week, I wonder how many of them were originally convinced that this would all over by now. It’s going to get harder as we get into November and December….. Patience is getting thin amongst those who’ve been out the longest. The membership is certainly getting more and more divided the longer this goes on. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 10 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said: Patience is getting thin amongst those who’ve been out the longest. The membership is certainly getting more and more divided the longer this goes on. I thought so, these are ordinary folks that just want a good deal and to get back to work and earn a decent wage. Hopefully the message that people want this done ASAP filters back up the UAW hierarchy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HotRunrGuy Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 (edited) 34 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said: Patience is getting thin amongst those who’ve been out the longest. The membership is certainly getting more and more divided the longer this goes on. Fuzzy, Do you think there's a possibility of Fain & Co "rotating the pain", and allowing MAP to go back to work, but then close one of the F-150 plants? This way, more of the Membership shares in the sacrifices. HRG Edited October 23, 2023 by HotRunrGuy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grbeck Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 26 minutes ago, jpd80 said: I thought so, these are ordinary folks that just want a good deal and to get back to work and earn a decent wage. Hopefully the message that people want this done ASAP filters back up the UAW hierarchy. With inflation, no one is denying that Ford workers need a raise. But trying to suggest that the Ford Motor Company is running a sweat shop, and cast William Clay Ford, Jr., as a 21st century Harry Bennett, is ludicrous. I know plenty of workers who would be thrilled to receive the current level of pay and benefits, let alone what is being offered by the company. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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