UAW Demands 46% Pay Hike

[scode1]

This article talks about who is really pulling the strings.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12654885/uaw-strikes-socialist-activists-shawn-fain.html

[iamweasel]

1 hour ago, rperez817 said:

 

Yup, UAW confirmed it about a half hour ago. BREAKING: Another 5,000 Autoworkers Join the UAW’s Stand Up Strike at GM’s Largest Plant | UAW

 

Yet a few hundred miles away in San Antonio, lower paid non-union Toyota workers are happily putting together as many Tundra's as they can.  This is just ridiculous......

[akirby]

The workers need to ban together and tell these assholes to take a hike or they won’t have any jobs at all.

[Harley Lover]

GM had just stated that the strike has been costing it $200 million per week (and they've lost $800 million so far). I wonder what those figures become with the addition of Arlington on strike?

 

https://www.autonews.com/manufacturing/uaw-strike-gm-reports-800m-impact-walkout-so-far?utm_source=breaking-news&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20231024&utm_content=hero-headline

[grbeck]

31 minutes ago, iamweasel said:

 

Yet a few hundred miles away in San Antonio, lower paid non-union Toyota workers are happily putting together as many Tundra's as they can.  This is just ridiculous......

 

Are the transplant operation workers really paid that much less than their Big Three counterparts? It's my understanding that the transplants pay competitive wages (to head off any unionization drives).

 

Their cost advantage is rooted in less generous health care plans, a reliance on 401(k)s as opposed to defined benefit retirement plans, much less restrictive work rules and better attendance rates (which boost productivity and quality). 

Edited October 24, 2023 by grbeck

[grbeck]

9 minutes ago, akirby said:

The workers need to ban together and tell these assholes to take a hike or they won’t have any jobs at all.

 

I'm still trying to understand the mentality that "wounding" your employer is a smart strategy. Really? That is just plain stupid. 

[NitroRichFire]

1 hour ago, scode1 said:

This article talks about who is really pulling the strings.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12654885/uaw-strikes-socialist-activists-shawn-fain.html

Hmmm, I am in a different Union, we can NOT strike, but with the post above I am starting to see a much clear picture here........

[scode1]

11 minutes ago, NitroRichFire said:

Hmmm, I am in a different Union, we can NOT strike, but with the post above I am starting to see a much clear picture here........

 

It's starting to make more sense after reading this. Fain is a Total Commie!!

Edited October 24, 2023 by scode1
punctuation

[iamweasel]

17 minutes ago, grbeck said:

 

Are the transplant operation workers really paid that much less than their Big Three counterparts? It's my understanding that the transplants pay competitive wages (to head off any unionization drives).

 

Their cost advantage is rooted in less generous health care plans, a reliance on 401(k)s as opposed to defined benefit retirement plans, much less restrictive work rules and far better attendance rates (which boosts productivity and quality). 

 

Roughly speaking, the actual hourly wages are ~ 10% less for transplants and their benefits are 30% worse so that makes the overall compensation for transplants about 20% less overall.

 

HOWEVER, and this is a big one that nobody talks about, the transplant plants also use WAY more 3rd party sub-assembly labor, too, which helps reduce the overall labor cost even further vs UAW plants.  (In addition to fudging the domestic content percentages for foreign automakers.)    For instance, GM Arlington has ~ 5,700 workers there (~5,400 are UAW) while Toyota San Antonio only has ~ 3,000 hourly workers.    There are probably 1,000 to 2,000 hourly folks working for sub assemblers in San Antonio and these positions are usually paid 10-25% less than the Toyota non-union workers.

 

So do the math on that.  (UAW costs vs the average costs of the Toyota/3rd Party workers.)

 

Avanzar is one of those 3rd party companies I am referring to.  They make seats, door panels and other parts "across the street" and ship them over to the main Toyota plant as a complete assembly.  In GM's case, those parts are often put together by UAW workers inside the GM plant.  (Same with most of the Ford plants, too.)

 

[fuzzymoomoo]

16 minutes ago, iamweasel said:

 

Roughly speaking, the actual hourly wages are ~ 10% less for transplants and their benefits are 30% worse so that makes the overall compensation for transplants about 20% less overall.

 

HOWEVER, and this is a big one that nobody talks about, the transplant plants also use WAY more 3rd party sub-assembly labor, too, which helps reduce the overall labor cost even further vs UAW plants.  (In addition to fudging the domestic content percentages for foreign automakers.)    For instance, GM Arlington has ~ 5,700 workers there (~5,400 are UAW) while Toyota San Antonio only has ~ 3,000 hourly workers.    There are probably 1,000 to 2,000 hourly folks working for sub assemblers in San Antonio and these positions are usually paid 10-25% less than the Toyota non-union workers.

 

So do the math on that.  (UAW costs vs the average costs of the Toyota/3rd Party workers.)

 

Avanzar is one of those 3rd party companies I am referring to.  They make seats, door panels and other parts "across the street" and ship them over to the main Toyota plant as a complete assembly.  In GM's case, those parts are often put together by UAW workers inside the GM plant.  (Same with most of the Ford plants, too.)

 

Stellantis has been doing that as far back as the days they were still Chrysler and owned by Cerberus. It’s a HUGE point of contention with the union and has been as long as I can remember. 

[iamweasel]

27 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

Stellantis has been doing that as far back as the days they were still Chrysler and owned by Cerberus. It’s a HUGE point of contention with the union and has been as long as I can remember. 

 

GM and Ford has done that a little bit here and there but mainly out of necessity due to the plants they have not being able to do certain things.  I'm not as familiar with Stellantis.  

 

On the Ford and GM side, my understanding is their total 3rd Party labor pool is estimated to be a small fraction (say no more than 10%) of what the transplants use.  

 

Attached is an interesting photo.  I had to do this on F-150 when we were setting some things up for Dearborn.  Note Ford's KC plant how there is just the plant in that area.  (The two buildings just south of Mill Creek are Ford's paint and body buildings so everything shown is Ford-owned.)

 

Contrast that to the Tundra plant.  Look at how many other buildings there are.  Toyota has the big plant in the middle but everything else is a 3rd party subassembler.  (~ 20 in total.)  Even with their main plant, my recollection was half of that left section was leased-out to subassemblers, too.  

[fuzzymoomoo]

27 minutes ago, iamweasel said:

I'm not as familiar with Stellantis.  

I only know about it from a friend who used to work for one of those agencies at Trenton Engine and a friend of the family who was a supervisor at that plant. 

[hllywd]

5 hours ago, scode1 said:

This article talks about who is really pulling the strings.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12654885/uaw-strikes-socialist-activists-shawn-fain.html

Having unelected political activists with no factory or union experience who have openly stated that they want chaos, class warfare and to wound the companies for months ticks me off. Describes these guys as carnies because they sweep in, reap destruction and then move on. They don't care if they kill the company as long as they achieve their mission. The article also illustrates that these knuckleheads sit directly next to Fain at negotiations, leaving negotiators openly asking who they are actually negotiating with? We didn't vote these guys in and yet it sounds like they're actually running the show. Really wish the Detroit 3 would take this to NLRB, file unfair labor practice and demand arbitration. Fain loses then.

[2005Explorer]

7 hours ago, scode1 said:

This article talks about who is really pulling the strings.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12654885/uaw-strikes-socialist-activists-shawn-fain.html

Those socialist activists would much prefer all corporately owned automakers go away and be replaced by one US Government owned and run automaker. 

[paintguy]

5 hours ago, iamweasel said:

 

Roughly speaking, the actual hourly wages are ~ 10% less for transplants and their benefits are 30% worse so that makes the overall compensation for transplants about 20% less overall.

 

HOWEVER, and this is a big one that nobody talks about, the transplant plants also use WAY more 3rd party sub-assembly labor, too, which helps reduce the overall labor cost even further vs UAW plants.  (In addition to fudging the domestic content percentages for foreign automakers.)    For instance, GM Arlington has ~ 5,700 workers there (~5,400 are UAW) while Toyota San Antonio only has ~ 3,000 hourly workers.    There are probably 1,000 to 2,000 hourly folks working for sub assemblers in San Antonio and these positions are usually paid 10-25% less than the Toyota non-union workers.

 

So do the math on that.  (UAW costs vs the average costs of the Toyota/3rd Party workers.)

 

Avanzar is one of those 3rd party companies I am referring to.  They make seats, door panels and other parts "across the street" and ship them over to the main Toyota plant as a complete assembly.  In GM's case, those parts are often put together by UAW workers inside the GM plant.  (Same with most of the Ford plants, too.)

 

Interesting that transplants have more 3rd party. At Ford Chicago, Lear makes the seats in nearby Indiana, Tower automotive supplies some parts and at one time ZF provided transmissions. And I had heard that Tesla has more vertical integration, bringing subassemblies in house. Not quite Henry Ford making Steel and glass, have forests for wood parts, try a "factory" for rubber in Brazil, and eventually marrying a Firestone for tires. OK the Firestone thing was personal not supply chain. But wow, did a lot of Fords wear Firestones.

[mackinaw]

1 hour ago, 2005Explorer said:

Those socialist activists would much prefer all corporately owned automakers go away and be replaced by one US Government owned and run automaker. 

 

The Brits tried that with British Leyland, back in the 70's.  To say it didn't work is being charitable.

[mackinaw]

Looks like now the UAW is asking for at least a 25% pay increase.

 

https://www.autonews.com/manufacturing/uaw-strike-union-detroit-3-come-closer-raises

 

[fuzzymoomoo]

39 minutes ago, mackinaw said:

Looks like now the UAW is asking for at least a 25% pay increase.

 

https://www.autonews.com/manufacturing/uaw-strike-union-detroit-3-come-closer-raises

 

I think the desire amongst the majority of the membership is a minimum of 30%. My best friend I talk to constantly keeps saying it’s going to be hard for him to vote for less than

that. 

[iamweasel]

1 hour ago, paintguy said:

Interesting that transplants have more 3rd party. At Ford Chicago, Lear makes the seats in nearby Indiana, Tower automotive supplies some parts and at one time ZF provided transmissions. And I had heard that Tesla has more vertical integration, bringing subassemblies in house. Not quite Henry Ford making Steel and glass, have forests for wood parts, try a "factory" for rubber in Brazil, and eventually marrying a Firestone for tires. OK the Firestone thing was personal not supply chain. But wow, did a lot of Fords wear Firestones.

 

Seats were one of those components that Ford used to buy as complete units from suppliers but my F-150 program was the first to launch the new F-Family seats where we started to do more of them in-house.  (We would buy the frame in small , medium or large from the seat supplier then do the rest of it in-house.)   But that was 15 years ago and don't really know if they truly rolled that out to all the other models or just gave up and started buying complete seats again.

 

As far as Chicago is concerned, that would probably be one of the plants that needed to do more of that kind of thing given the plant was old and small.  That plant was considered our worst assembly plant for a number of reasons and if there were to be closures the 3 always on the top of the list were Chicago, Flat Rock and Oakville.  (Again, that hit list may look different now....not trying to freak anyone out.  LOL...)

[iamweasel]

17 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

I think the desire amongst the majority of the membership is a minimum of 30%. My best friend I talk to constantly keeps saying it’s going to be hard for him to vote for less than

that. 

 

LOL.....can't spell unwarranted without a U, A & W. 

[chris532]

18 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

I think the desire amongst the majority of the membership is a minimum of 30%. My best friend I talk to constantly keeps saying it’s going to be hard for him to vote for less than

that. 

I've hearing them same also, but their not realizing that the 23% with cola is about 30%. Actually had a co-worker say the 23% was a insult. So really wanted to tell him with his work ethic he was already 23% over paid.

 

I did get word that Ford and the UAW Ford team are negotiating thru the night tonight. Hopefully Fain won't F it up again.

[fuzzymoomoo]

20 minutes ago, chris532 said:

I did get word that Ford and the UAW Ford team are negotiating thru the night tonight. Hopefully Fain won't F it up again.

I really hope that’s true. It’s past time to get this shit settled. 

[Rangers09]

16 hours ago, mackinaw said:

 

The Brits tried that with British Leyland, back in the 70's.  To say it didn't work is being charitable.

 

Unfortunately, the socialist govts of the time nationalised more than just British Leyland. It took Maggie Thatcher to take on the union leadership and it wasn't an easy solution. I suggest the American workers should review some history before blindly following the UAW leader.

[rmc523]

20 hours ago, hllywd said:

Having unelected political activists with no factory or union experience who have openly stated that they want chaos, class warfare and to wound the companies for months ticks me off. Describes these guys as carnies because they sweep in, reap destruction and then move on. They don't care if they kill the company as long as they achieve their mission. The article also illustrates that these knuckleheads sit directly next to Fain at negotiations, leaving negotiators openly asking who they are actually negotiating with? We didn't vote these guys in and yet it sounds like they're actually running the show. Really wish the Detroit 3 would take this to NLRB, file unfair labor practice and demand arbitration. Fain loses then.

 

How did the guy become the UAW head then?  I'm genuinely asking - he just got appointed by.....someone?

[akirby]

9 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

 

How did the guy become the UAW head then?  I'm genuinely asking - he just got appointed by.....someone?

He barely won a runoff election where the members voted directly rather than allowing representatives to vote and based on some comments I’ve seen the turnout was abysmally low - like 11%.