REPORT: Ford Dealers Do Not Trust the Blue Oval

[ice-capades]

REPORT: Ford Dealers Do Not Trust the Blue Oval

https://fordauthority.com/2023/11/ford-dealers-do-not-trust-the-blue-oval-report/

 

While the majority of Ford and Lincoln dealers in the U.S. ultimately opted into the top-tier Model e Certified Elite program when given a choice between that, the lesser tier, and not having the ability to sell all-electric vehicles in the future, this decision on The Blue Oval’s part hasn’t developed without its fair share of controversy. In fact, some Ford dealers took legal action against the automaker questioning Model e Certified’s legality, spurring some changes to the program that allowed a handful to drop out after initially committing to it. As it turns out, the Model e Certified program has left a bit of a lingering bad taste in the mouths of some Ford dealers, who aren’t quite as trusting of the company as they used to be, according to a new survey recently highlighted by Automotive News.

 

The 2023 Kerrigan Dealer Survey was conducted by Kerrigan Advisors, who polled 650 anonymous dealerships between June and October, seeking to determine which ones are the most and least trusting of their respective automotive brands. In that regard, Ford ranked at the very bottom as nearly half – 48 percent – of its dealers said that they don’t trust the automaker. These results are “consistent with the expectation of a decline in future Ford franchise profitability due to the OEM’s EV/future retailing strategy.” Kerrigan noted.

 

The most trusted brand in this year’s Kerrigan Dealer Survey was Toyota – which 72 percent of dealers say is trustworthy – followed by Lexus (56 percent), Subaru (55 percent), Honda (36 percent), and Porsche (31 percent). On the flip side, the least trusted brands based on dealer feedback are Ford at the aforementioned 48 percent, followed by Nissan (43 percent), Lincoln (40 percent), Stellantis’ Dodge-Jeep-Ram-Chrysler conglomerate at 39 percent, and Infiniti (37 percent).

 

In response to this survey, Ford released a statement noting that its dealers are “important strategic partners and we are always listening and making adjustments. Working with our dealers, we have made recent beneficial changes to address dealer feedback and improve franchise value.”

Edited November 6, 2023 by ice-capades
Additional Content

[HotRunrGuy]

After 3+ years of price gouging customers with ADM's and useless options, maybe the Dealers would like to see a survey of how trustworthy THEIR customers feel about them,,,,,

 

HRG

[fuzzymoomoo]

8 minutes ago, HotRunrGuy said:

After 3+ years of price gouging customers with ADM's and useless options, maybe the Dealers would like to see a survey of how trustworthy THEIR customers feel about them,,,,,

 

HRG

I would love to see that

[ice-capades]

Ford Dealers mistrust of the Blue Oval is based on decades of experience and isn't going to change with the long-embedded culture at Ford. The redundant, multiple layers of Ford management continue to create new requirements from Dealers, including substantial investments from dealerships that are either labor and/or capital intensive. All too often, these investments increase dealership operating expenses to meet Ford requirements and objectives but come at the dealerships' expense and not Ford's.

 

Many of the requirements placed on dealerships are related to the transition to BEV vehicle sales and ownership. One of those requirements is related to the charging infrastructure at dealerships which is a direct dealership expense. 

 

Ford is requiring Dealers to make substantial investments in charging infrastructure and service-related services that may not be recovered for many years. As such, is there any doubt that Ford Dealers question their trust in the Ford Blue Oval?  

[rperez817]

Link to Kerrigan Dealer Survey 2023 report. The-Kerrigan-Dealer-Survey-2023-Release.pdf (kerriganadvisors.com)

 

[rmc523]

1 hour ago, ice-capades said:

REPORT: Ford Dealers Do Not Trust the Blue Oval

https://fordauthority.com/2023/11/ford-dealers-do-not-trust-the-blue-oval-report/

 

While the majority of Ford and Lincoln dealers in the U.S. ultimately opted into the top-tier Model e Certified Elite program when given a choice between that, the lesser tier, and not having the ability to sell all-electric vehicles in the future, this decision on The Blue Oval’s part hasn’t developed without its fair share of controversy. In fact, some Ford dealers took legal action against the automaker questioning Model e Certified’s legality, spurring some changes to the program that allowed a handful to drop out after initially committing to it. As it turns out, the Model e Certified program has left a bit of a lingering bad taste in the mouths of some Ford dealers, who aren’t quite as trusting of the company as they used to be, according to a new survey recently highlighted by Automotive News.

 

The 2023 Kerrigan Dealer Survey was conducted by Kerrigan Advisors, who polled 650 anonymous dealerships between June and October, seeking to determine which ones are the most and least trusting of their respective automotive brands. In that regard, Ford ranked at the very bottom as nearly half – 48 percent – of its dealers said that they don’t trust the automaker. These results are “consistent with the expectation of a decline in future Ford franchise profitability due to the OEM’s EV/future retailing strategy.” Kerrigan noted.

 

The most trusted brand in this year’s Kerrigan Dealer Survey was Toyota – which 72 percent of dealers say is trustworthy – followed by Lexus (56 percent), Subaru (55 percent), Honda (36 percent), and Porsche (31 percent). On the flip side, the least trusted brands based on dealer feedback are Ford at the aforementioned 48 percent, followed by Nissan (43 percent), Lincoln (40 percent), Stellantis’ Dodge-Jeep-Ram-Chrysler conglomerate at 39 percent, and Infiniti (37 percent).

 

In response to this survey, Ford released a statement noting that its dealers are “important strategic partners and we are always listening and making adjustments. Working with our dealers, we have made recent beneficial changes to address dealer feedback and improve franchise value.”

 

Am I the only ones that don't understand these percentages?

 

So Porsche is the 5th "most trusted" at 31%, but Ford is "untrusted" at 48%?  

 

Would that not mean that the balance 69% don't trust Porsche, and conversely, 52% trust Ford?

[rperez817]

12 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

 

Am I the only ones that don't understand these percentages?

 

So Porsche is the 5th "most trusted" at 31%, but Ford is "untrusted" at 48%?  

 

Would that not mean that the balance 69% don't trust Porsche, and conversely, 52% trust Ford?

 

Here is more detail from page 5 of the Kerrigan Dealer Survey report.

 

Edited November 6, 2023 by rperez817

[tbone]

So, the distrust is based on Ford’s EV sales strategy.  For example, tying Ford specialty vehicle allocation to dealerships’s EV sales.  I can see why something like that would generate distrust. 

[rperez817]

10 minutes ago, tbone said:

So, the distrust is based on Ford’s EV sales strategy.  For example, tying Ford specialty vehicle allocation to dealerships’s EV sales.  I can see why something like that would generate distrust. 

 

This is what Kerrigan Advisors said about Ford.

Ford remains the franchise most expected to see a decline in profits as a result of the OEM’s changes to its retailing model. Consistent with this negative sentiment, Ford is the non-luxury franchise least expected to see a rise in valuation in the next 12 months. These results reflect dealers’ lack of trust in the OEM with Ford ranking as the least trusted franchise – 48% of dealers surveyed reported that they had no trust in Ford, the highest percentage of any franchise. Kerrigan Advisors expects this negative sentiment to impact Ford’s future blue sky multiple and franchise valuation.

 

And here's what they said about Toyota, which is on the other end of the spectrum in terms of dealer-OEM trust.

Toyota continues to outperform on every level. Most notably, Toyota is the most trusted franchise by dealers, scoring 17 percentage points higher than its nearest non-luxury competitor Subaru. This monumental lead in the trust equation has resulted in the franchise having the highest expected increase in profits as a result of the OEM's retailing changes with only 7% expecting a decline, the second to lowest level behind its sister franchise, Lexus. Most impressive, despite having the highest blue sky multiple of all non-luxury franchises, dealers expect the franchise’s value will continue to rise. These results are consistent with the buyer demand Kerrigan Advisors sees for Toyota franchises.

[jpd80]

Would it be fair to say that Ford and it’s dealers deserve each other?

 

[Bob Rosadini]

On this subject I would have to believe that Farley's very heavy handed  (IMO) approach to pushing a Tesla sales model has a lot to do with this attitude.  Also some of his other views..like jumping into Formula One...May sound good to the more affluent buyer, but to "JOE six pack"..a handle desecrated by Joe biden?...the dealer in Buffalo probably says .."WTF"?  Also his absolute immediate embrace of EV's vs Toyota's very measured approach has I'm sure many dealers saying.."told you so."

 

Finally the Ford Pro push as I see it does NOT embrace what the commercial market is.  To ask a dealer to install 14' overhead bay doors when you only see Ford pushing light trucks and Transits I think fosters a sense that they are clueless.  

 

I just noticed a nice Ford ad finally stressing "Fords at work".   But in that footage, what do we see?  Nothing but pick ups!  Why wouldn't you show a dirty F-750 dump truck..or a 650 with a 24' box delivering an appliance to a home owner...oops...different advertising budget, can't have that!.

 

Many of the older dealers probably have memories of Ford's big investment in heavy trucks (HN-80)- then pulling the plug a little more than a year after its introduction..ancient history I know, but still history.

[silvrsvt]

1 hour ago, Bob Rosadini said:

Also his absolute immediate embrace of EV's vs Toyota's very measured approach has I'm sure many dealers saying.."told you so."

 

See here is the problem-its all bullshit. It boils down to perception formed by news reporting

 

if Toyota was so anti EV why would they be doing this:

Toyota Announces $8B Expansion at its North Carolina-Based EV Battery Plant

 

And from that article:

Located on a 1,825-acre megasite in Liberty, North Carolina, Toyota will manufacture batteries for hybrid electric vehicles (HEVs) and battery electric vehicles (BEVs) using 100% renewable energy. This facility is critical in the expansion of Toyota’s global electrification efforts as the company plans to roll out 30 BEV models globally by 2030

 

How is that any different then what Ford is doing? Ford has three EVs in North America, will have 2-3 in the EU in the next 12 months and will add an additional 2 models in NA in the next two years with another 2 around 2027. 

 

All Toyota is doing (or not doing) is controlling its narrative to the press to make themselves look better then they are and then add in the stereotypical shit show that gets started in the comments section in articles over EVs by idiots/bots/whatever and you wonder why the press loves them, because they bring in ad revenue. 

[rperez817]

1 hour ago, Bob Rosadini said:

On this subject I would have to believe that Farley's very heavy handed  (IMO) approach to pushing a Tesla sales model has a lot to do with this attitude. 

 

OEM-dealer relations for Ford have been poor for decades, as ice-capades shared earlier in this thread. And that will continue until Ford is allowed to pursue true direct to consumer sales of new vehicles in all U.S. states, with no franchised dealerships acting as a middleman.

[fuzzymoomoo]

26 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

if Toyota was so anti EV why would they be doing this:

Toyota Announces $8B Expansion at its North Carolina-Based EV Battery Plant

It’s not that Toyota is anti-EV, it’s they don’t think that’s the answer and as such they’re taking a far more measured approach. Makes sense for them that way if they need the EV capacity in the future to they don’t have to scramble to catch up. 

[Deanh]

On 11/6/2023 at 12:26 PM, tbone said:

So, the distrust is based on Ford’s EV sales strategy.  For example, tying Ford specialty vehicle allocation to dealerships’s EV sales.  I can see why something like that would generate distrust. 

not just that...I could compile a list from over the last few decades...one classic that I called as soon as it was mandated was the necessity to obtain customers e-mail adress's ( this gos back a while and there were penalties if we didnt comply ) This after drumming into sales personel how importatant it was to build a personal relationship with customers and "trust"...only to COMPLETELY circumvent and backdoor the salesperson that had worked hard on said relationship through DIRECT contact from Ford themselves with the salesperson COMPLETELY left out of the equation....all id did was dilute any form of "loyalty"....in a nutshell, Ford pretty much treats its Dealer base compoletely dis-respectfully 

[silvrsvt]

9 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

It’s not that Toyota is anti-EV, it’s they don’t think that’s the answer and as such they’re taking a far more measured approach. Makes sense for them that way if they need the EV capacity in the future to they don’t have to scramble to catch up. 

 

And Ford isn't doing that? 

 

That is the point I'm trying to make-outside of the Edge, there isn't any Ford ICE product going away from the market and the EVs that are coming are new/complementary products for what is being built. That might change in 4-5 years with the Escape replacement, but that is down the road and subject to change. 

 

The other thing to consider is that is Toyota going to be really able to retool all of its products, say in North America alone starting after 2030 to meet the 2035 mandates also? The longer they wait to do things the further they will behind in institutional knowledge to keep improving their EVs that say Ford is doing now with the Mach E that will help them 2 generations from now.  I keep saying this but you can't just do something and expect to be able to produce something 6 months later in the auto industry. Fuck I see it at my job with a stupid metal box we need for a piece of test equipment-its taken 5+ years to put out a PC that mounts to a box that will connect to an aircraft. The engineering work is done-we are just waiting for the manufacture to make the effing boxes. 

[Deanh]

20 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

 

OEM-dealer relations for Ford have been poor for decades, as ice-capades shared earlier in this thread. And that will continue until Ford is allowed to pursue true direct to consumer sales of new vehicles in all U.S. states, with no franchised dealerships acting as a middleman.

I will laugh my ass off if that ever happens, and my bet is Ill be gone before that debaucle is instituted, IF it ever is.......trust me on this one, as inept as some of Fords Corporate practices are, the "Dealership" is the only buffer between the customer and Corporate...Ford cant handle customer issues in the tiniest of fashions, and they prove it time and time again with what they relay to customers one on one...and then theres all the wonderful "we will handle this" roll outs of Mavericks, Broncos, Bronco Sports, Transit Trails etc etc etc...Off screen they have also been forcing retirements of people that actually KNEW what they were doing and replacing then with scripted "yes" men/ women at significantly lower pay grades....

[Deanh]

8 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

 

And Ford isn't doing that? 

 

That is the point I'm trying to make-outside of the Edge, there isn't any Ford ICE product going away from the market and the EVs that are coming are new/complementary products for what is being built. That might change in 4-5 years with the Escape replacement, but that is down the road and subject to change. 

 

The other thing to consider is that is Toyota going to be really able to retool all of its products, say in North America alone starting after 2030 to meet the 2035 mandates also? The longer they wait to do things the further they will behind in institutional knowledge to keep improving their EVs that say Ford is doing now with the Mach E that will help them 2 generations from now.  I keep saying this but you can't just do something and expect to be able to produce something 6 months later in the auto industry. Fuck I see it at my job with a stupid metal box we need for a piece of test equipment-its taken 5+ years to put out a PC that mounts to a box that will connect to an aircraft. The engineering work is done-we are just waiting for the manufacture to make the effing boxes. 

NO...their handling of the Transit BEV was a f----king disaster.....Toyota has been wary from day one buying into all the hype, which IMO was strategically extremely wise....

[silvrsvt]

12 minutes ago, Deanh said:

NO...their handling of the Transit BEV was a f----king disaster.....Toyota has been wary from day one buying into all the hype, which IMO was strategically extremely wise....

 

I see you've been drinking the colaid too. 

[Deanh]

30 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

 

I see you've been drinking the colaid too. 

no..I would say my relationship with them ( Ford ) is somewhat more hands on than yours,Im kinda in the trenches, not an armchair observer, BUT yes its a different angle from the Sales standpoint and Customer reaction...that ( Transit ) BEV may rank as one of Fords biggest turds ever and Ill stand by my comment....and Fords all in on electric has backfired rather embarassingly....Ive stated more than one time, slow and steady wins the long game...the sprint risks a pulled muscle ( witness all the failed start ups and companies curently struggling such as Rivain and Lucid which without subsidy would be gone by now anyways, AND Fords loss per unit )  Ive also stated EVs time MAY come...just that its just not a "just add water " and be done scenario. Name one manufacturer other than Tesla, thats sold herein the US that profits solely from BEV, or whos EVs are profitable....wonderful use of Taxpayers money subsidizing  GOVTs wet dream....it may come, but right now its financial quicksand....

Edited November 8, 2023 by Deanh

[silvrsvt]

13 minutes ago, Deanh said:

no..I would say my relationship with them ( Ford ) is somewhat more hands on than yours,Im kinda in the trenches, not an armchair observer, BUT yes its a different angle from the Sales standpoint and Customer reaction...that ( Transit ) BEV may rank as one of Fords biggest turds ever and Ill stand by my comment....and Fords all in on electric has backfired rather embarassingly....Ive stated more than one time, slow and steady wins the long game...the sprint risks a pulled muscle ( witness all the failed start ups and companies curently struggling such as Rivain and Lucid which without subsidy would be gone by now anyways, AND Fords loss per unit )  Ive also stated EVs time MAY come...just that its just not a "just add water " and be done scenario. Name one manufacturer other than Tesla, thats sold herein the US that profits solely from BEV, or whos EVs are profitable....wonderful use of Taxpayers money subsidizing  GOVTs wet dream....it may come, but right now its finacial quicksand....

 

But even Telsa didn't make money till recently and was surviving due to GM and FCA (at the time) buying CO2 offsets from them. 

 

I get the Transit EV might not be someones cup of tea, but you have what 3000 variations of the Transit ICE that would make better sense for them? If the EV version replaced the entire Transit lineup, you'd have more of a leg to stand on to complain about it. 

 

Going back to the point I was trying to make here-Toyota gets a get out of jail free card because of who they are by the press-they are scrambling behind the scenes to get caught up to the other players in the market while talking out of their other side of their mouth about how EVs aren't going to work. 

 

Ford has been talking up EVs (for better or worse) the past few years (partly due to Teslas impressive stock prices) and in the press is getting eviscerated for it now, but yet hasn't done any wholesale changes to its ICE lineup that won't start fading away for another 5-7 years?

 

Mix this all in with the way the press/internet reports things and a general lack of knowledge and we are at where we are. 

[Deanh]

9 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

 

But even Telsa didn't make money till recently and was surviving due to GM and FCA (at the time) buying CO2 offsets from them. 

 

I get the Transit EV might not be someones cup of tea, but you have what 3000 variations of the Transit ICE that would make better sense for them? If the EV version replaced the entire Transit lineup, you'd have more of a leg to stand on to complain about it. 

 

Going back to the point I was trying to make here-Toyota gets a get out of jail free card because of who they are by the press-they are scrambling behind the scenes to get caught up to the other players in the market while talking out of their other side of their mouth about how EVs aren't going to work. 

 

Ford has been talking up EVs (for better or worse) the past few years (partly due to Teslas impressive stock prices) and in the press is getting eviscerated for it now, but yet hasn't done any wholesale changes to its ICE lineup that won't start fading away for another 5-7 years?

 

Mix this all in with the way the press/internet reports things and a general lack of knowledge and we are at where we are. 

taxpayer $ at work....without those $ I doubt there would be one EV manufacturer surviving right now, perhaps even tesla...kinda scary. And even Elon has stated time and agian Tesla stock is grossly overvalued...heck, its like watching a Rodeo. Sad thing is, the hypes gone...they are literally trickling off lots...theres no waiting lists in  the slightest and they are sitting...yet hybrids are GONE before they even hit the lot. IMO ( and this is opinion ) Ford would have been WAY better off with a more gradual transition by utilizing all the damn chips in their "hot selling" EVs into Hybrid drivetrains for at least a few years and let other manufacturers make the mistakes they could observe learn from...instead, they participated, made the mistakes themselves and cost themselves a pretty penny.... I truly pity the early adopters of EVs, whilst the technology is improving leaps and bound, the early adopters are going to lose it when they turn in their GOVT BEV clinical study..the resale is cringe worthy...yet the hybrids are holding all the $...again...slow and steady wins the race, FORD IMO made a grave mistake...and Im sure their heirachy would agree somewhat in hindsight..if you want to talk coolaid, BEVs are it...at least right now...

[Bob Rosadini]

22 minutes ago, Deanh said:

no..I would say my relationship with them ( Ford ) is somewhat more hands on than yours,Im kinda in the trenches, not an armchair observer, BUT yes its a different angle from the Sales standpoint and Customer reaction...that ( Transit ) BEV may rank as one of Fords biggest turds ever and Ill stand by my comment....and Fords all in on electric has backfired rather embarassingly....Ive stated more than one time, slow and steady wins the long game...the sprint risks a pulled muscle ( witness all the failed start ups and companies curently struggling such as Rivain and Lucid which without subsidy would be gone by now anyways, AND Fords loss per unit )  Ive also stated EVs time MAY come...just that its just not a "just add water " and be done scenario. Name one manufacturer other than Tesla, thats sold herein the US that profits solely from BEV, or whos EVs are profitable....wonderful use of Taxpayers money subsidizing  GOVTs wet dream....it may come, but right now its finacial quicksand....

 

Amen..not sure what DeanH your hands on experience is but I have a lot of faith in that experience..as I do with Ice Capades experience...he had a lot of dealership experience at a large dealership..where as a high school kid I would go to their  back lot that was not secure and fire up  a two stick T-950  Super Duty that they would leave the keys in-always respectfully I might add being very careful to not do anything to that truck that might be harmful ?

 

In any case S'Svt, to your point I don't think Toyota was a "johnny come lately" to the EV's "at a measured pace " approach.  I can recall reading quite some time ago how Mr. Toyoda was outspoken in his position that the ultimate answer involved a broad offering of all forms of power...ICE, Hybreds. etc.

 

Toyota's efforts to ramp up battery production makes sense at a measured pace.  I think Farley went overboard in his initial EV position to appeal to the press and the public.  If I were a dealer I would in fact have a concern where my supplier was going.

[fuzzymoomoo]

1 hour ago, silvrsvt said:

And Ford isn't doing that? 

Building 3 battery plants and an assembly complex on top of retooling at least 2 existing facilities is hardly a measured approach. 

[Deanh]

13 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

Building 3 battery plants and an assembly complex on top of retooling at least 2 existing facilities is hardly a measured approach. 

Id say thats Lia Thomas....balls out.....that said...I wonder if they ( the plants) could be adapted somewhat should EVs NOT ultimately be the avenue to pursue. Hate to say this, but personally I see an awful lot of this EV BS as nothing more than flavor of the month ( year ) virtue signalling...you can say you will be releasing 30 new EVs by such and such a date and you are a Media Darling...no one cares youre losing your ass to appese...

Edited November 8, 2023 by Deanh