Ford Mustang Mach-E Can Now Be Advertised Below MSRP

[ice-capades]

Ford Mustang Mach-E Can Now Be Advertised Below MSRP

https://fordauthority.com/2023/12/ford-mustang-mach-e-can-now-be-advertised-below-msrp/

 

 

The automotive retail landscape has radically changed with the proliferation of digital storefronts and fixed prices, with the latter trend a core feature for automakers who decided against the franchise model. Ford – with more than 3,000 franchised dealers in the United States – has struggled to offer a similar buying experience, as no two Blue Oval dealer will likely have the same price, at least for certain vehicles. As Ford Authority reported back in 2019, the automaker prevented its dealer network from advertising the Ford Mustang Mach-E below MSRP in an effort to appear more like a manufacturer that sells vehicles at a fixed price. It followed suit with a similar policy for the Ford F-150 Lightning, and as of 2022, Lincoln dealers cannot advertise deals above MSRP. Now, the automaker has changed its tune, according to Cars Direct.

 

According to the site, 2022 and 2023 Ford Mustang Mach-E EVs can be advertised at a price, payment, or offer that is derived from a starting price below MSRP. It is unclear if this will have a major impact on sales however, since dealers were always allowed to sell the EV at any price they desired. In any event, the change comes at an inauspicious time for the company’s first dedicated EV. In a few weeks, it will likely lose out on the federal EV tax credit and therefore become more expensive for shoppers that qualified for the incentive. And despite some price cuts, it remains more expensive than its top competitor, the Tesla Model Y. Still, it recently regained its status as a Consumer Reports recommended vehicle and sales are up 45 percent through the third quarter of 2023.

 

At the moment, it is also unclear if this policy change will impact how EV sales will operate in 2024, since the new retail certification model is expected to launch in January. Fixed prices for EVs is a central part of the sales program, along with other requirements for dealers to install EV infrastructure on site. The company has recently relaxed some of those requirements due to supply chain issues regarding EV chargers.

Edited December 7, 2023 by ice-capades
Additional Content

[Flying68]

AKA we have too much inventory and nobody is coming in to look because the MSRP and rebates are not enough discount.

[ice-capades]

19 minutes ago, Flying68 said:

AKA we have too much inventory and nobody is coming in to look because the MSRP and rebates are not enough discount.

 

It's very possible that the recent news regarding the Mustang Mach-E likely losing all tax credits was a factor in relaxing the advertising policy along with the high inventory currently in stock. I'd expect further price adjustments or incentives soon. 

[jpd80]

At that is moment, national dealer stock of Mach E has risen to just over 15,400,

pits been bumping up about 1,000 a month for the last three months or so…

 

Seriously, if buyers were interested, dealers would be moving a lot more vehicles than they are..

I think it’s everything and not just one thing, prices, bad press on Mach E problems, interest rates,

talk of reducing tax credits, prices and dealer mark ups - all have  contributed to the current apathy?

 

maybe it’s just easier for folks to go buy a Tesla Y and avoid all the ‘pain’ that comes with owning a Ford.

Edited December 9, 2023 by jpd80

[AM222]

On 12/9/2023 at 8:46 AM, jpd80 said:

At that is moment, national dealer stock of Mach E has risen to just over 15,400,

pits been bumping up about 1,000 a month for the last three months or so…

 

Seriously, if buyers were interested, dealers would be moving a lot more vehicles than they are..

I think it’s everything and not just one thing, prices, bad press on Mach E problems, interest rates,

talk of reducing tax credits, prices and dealer mark ups - all have  contributed to the current apathy?

 

maybe it’s just easier for folks to go buy a Tesla Y and avoid all the ‘pain’ that comes with owning a Ford.

At this point there are many people who still have no access to a home charger (they live in apartments etc.) and have no public charging in their area. Those who have access to charging are by now, loyal Tesla owners. The smaller percentage of buyers interested in a Mach E probably already own one. 

BYD and MG EVs for example are gaining traction in other markets by targeting lower segments not yet covered by Tesla.

At the rate things are going, I think Ford should give the C2 Escape a reskin, make it hybrid-only and give it a more competitive MSRP. Maybe along the way they can add an EV powertrain option like the all-new Transit Courier and upcoming refreshed Puma.
 

Edited December 11, 2023 by AM222

[Tico]

Price is still the issue with full BEVs IMO. There is only so big a market for $50K to $70K mid sized SUVs and cars. I would guess people who live in apartments vs owning a home where a charger can be installed is not so big an issue. If your renting its often becuase you can't afford to own a stand alone house and probably can't afford a 60K vehicle either. Hybrids will take off because of the lower price and yes becuase you don't have to worry about charger access so much. BEVs are still mostly appealing to same audiance who shop luxury vehicles and yes Tesla is why ahead in brand image with these buyers. Most buyers are in the $30K to $45K price range where few BEVs exist.

[Flying68]

Nobody seems to know what residual value will be on BEV's.  Tesla residuals have been cratering, especially now that the rental fleets are starting to dump them.  If I buy a Mach-E today, in 3 years is it going to be worth anything?  I can pretty accurately predict what a normal ICE vehicle residual will be, but BEV's aren't quite there yet.

[GearheadGrrrl]

Got a chance to sit in an F150 Lighting Electric, and didn't feel motivated to ask for a test drive... Even before I saw the near $100K sticker price.

 

Has all of the problems of full size pickups- too tall, needs a handhold by the B pillar to climb in with proper "3 point contact", huge cab and joke of a bed. Poor protection of underside motors, but the target market doesn't wander far from the malls anyways. And that's before the battery dies and leaves you stranded...

[DeluxeStang]

45 minutes ago, GearheadGrrrl said:

Got a chance to sit in an F150 Lighting Electric, and didn't feel motivated to ask for a test drive... Even before I saw the near $100K sticker price.

 

Has all of the problems of full size pickups- too tall, needs a handhold by the B pillar to climb in with proper "3 point contact", huge cab and joke of a bed. Poor protection of underside motors, but the target market doesn't wander far from the malls anyways. And that's before the battery dies and leaves you stranded...

Then t3 should appeal to you, as we've heard it'll have a shorter hood and longer bed, and a lower ride height for areo efficiency. Probably a lower price as well. 

 

I've never understood the argument of off-roading, and worrying about running out of range. Last time I checked, gas powered off-roaders could still easily run out of fuel on the trails as well, happens all the time in Moab. It's a problem either way. 

 

At least with EVs, people are already developing things like solar tents, and camps, where you can easily expand and fold out solar panels, and have a place to camp while solar energy gradually charges your car over the course of your stay for a few days. 

 

But hey, like you said, most people don't go off-roading in the first place, so it's a none issue, a bit like being upset over an f-150 raptor not being very fast around the 'ring, it's not a problem, because very few people will ever be in that situation. 

[GearheadGrrrl]

9 minutes ago, DeluxeStang said:

Then t3 should appeal to you, as we've heard it'll have a shorter hood and longer bed, and a lower ride height for areo efficiency. Probably a lower price as well. 

 

I've never understood the argument of off-roading, and worrying about running out of range. Last time I checked, gas powered off-roaders could still easily run out of fuel on the trails as well, happens all the time in Moab. It's a problem either way. 

 

At least with EVs, people are already developing things like solar tents, and camps, where you can easily expand and fold out solar panels, and have a place to camp while solar energy gradually charges your car over the course of your stay for a few days. 

 

But hey, like you said, most people don't go off-roading in the first place, so it's a none issue, a bit like being upset over an f-150 raptor not being very fast around the 'ring, it's not a problem, because very few people will ever be in that situation. 

Good points, T3 should be an improvement, but if it isn't boxy and jacked up, will it sell? 

 

Agreed on the unneeded "off road" image, here in Minnesota the closest we get to that usage is deep snow, where breakover, approach,, etc. angles don't matter and there's no point in jacking the body above the bottom of the axles 'cause they're gonna be plowing snow with the diff housings long before the body drags on snow. 

 

[jpd80]

At the moment, Ford is making some mighty big assumptions with truck buyer likes and dislikes regarding T3 BEV, so I’m left wondering if Ford is still trying to work two sides of the street, attracting both ICE truck buyers but also people who are maybe first time truck buyers. So the T3 design and styling may be more about enticing a different group of buyers without ruining gas truck sales prematurely.

 

i don’t know the answer but maybe Ford doesn’t either but they have to try to find out and maybe T3 gives them good enough sales to gauge the mood and preferences of those buyers.

[rmc523]

1 hour ago, jpd80 said:

At the moment, Ford is making some mighty big assumptions with truck buyer likes and dislikes regarding T3 BEV, so I’m left wondering if Ford is still trying to work two sides of the street, attracting both ICE truck buyers but also people who are maybe first time truck buyers. So the T3 design and styling may be more about enticing a different group of buyers without ruining gas truck sales prematurely.

 

i don’t know the answer but maybe Ford doesn’t either but they have to try to find out and maybe T3 gives them good enough sales to gauge the mood and preferences of those buyers.

 

That's why I see them selling both current Lightning (which will receive its own updates paired with ICE F-150) and T3 side by side (alongside ICE of course) as consumer interest in the "weird" approach is evaluated for at least a few years.

Edited December 11, 2023 by rmc523

[DeluxeStang]

2 hours ago, jpd80 said:

At the moment, Ford is making some mighty big assumptions with truck buyer likes and dislikes regarding T3 BEV, so I’m left wondering if Ford is still trying to work two sides of the street, attracting both ICE truck buyers but also people who are maybe first time truck buyers. So the T3 design and styling may be more about enticing a different group of buyers without ruining gas truck sales prematurely.

 

i don’t know the answer but maybe Ford doesn’t either but they have to try to find out and maybe T3 gives them good enough sales to gauge the mood and preferences of those buyers.

I can't recall if it was you, or someone else who said t3 is to the f-150 what the electric Silverado was to the Silverado 1500. That it was still very much so a conventional looking truck, just with slightly different proportions aka a shorter hood and lower stance. 

 

If that's the case, I think it'll be fine. If it was something futuristic and radical looking, it could be a problem, but it sounds like it still retains that normal truck look. So I don't see it alienating a ton of people. Farley claimed it was radical, and wouldn't look like a typical truck. I don't know why he would make those claims, doesn't seem to be the case. 

[DeluxeStang]

3 hours ago, GearheadGrrrl said:

Good points, T3 should be an improvement, but if it isn't boxy and jacked up, will it sell? 

 

You know, I actually think making a truck that's the opposite of massively and blocky has some major appeal. It'll never happen, but I'd love for a electric Ford truck to take inspiration not from the typical blocky trucks, but from other sleeker product offerings made by Ford. 

 

What if Ford made a blocky electric truck to appeal to traditionalists, basically a slightly tweaked and improved version of the existing lighting, but also offered something to swerved hard in the other direction?

 

Imagine if you will, a truck designed to resemble a mid engine sports car on stilts rather than a conventional truck shape. Something with a low frontal area for great areo and outward visibility, a cab forward design that enabled a small size, while still having a decent sized bed, a sail pillar stretching all the way back to complete the look, but also add rigidity. A hood and fenders shape that shares more of a resemblance to the latest gt supercar than a normal truck, and a lower ride height than a maverick. Give it AWD, fog lights, and make it fast. Call it the rs200. A decent handling small and futuristic shape than could also handle mild off roading and rallying. 

 

That would be very bold, and would piss a ton of people off, but it would also be a product with a "Holy s#!$" level of response. Something that instantly polarized a ton of people, but also made a lot of people say "That's awesome, it's so different than any thing else, I gotta have it". 

Edited December 11, 2023 by DeluxeStang

[T-dubz]

I’m concerned about any truck design that has a shorter front and longer bed. The most popular configuration of truck has been crew cab short bed for years, which means people are used to and prefer these proportions. I don’t think the general truck buying public will go for a short front long bed. If you are trying to appeal to non truck buyers, would a longer bed be the way to go? These people are coming from cars and SUVs, they are going to prioritize interior space. I also see the home charging of full size ev trucks being a problem. Maybe it’s just me, but I’d prefer to have my vehicle inside the garage when charging. That’s hard to do with a full-size truck that doesn’t fit inside.

 

[DeluxeStang]

2 hours ago, T-dubz said:

I’m concerned about any truck design that has a shorter front and longer bed. The most popular configuration of truck has been crew cab short bed for years, which means people are used to and prefer these proportions. I don’t think the general truck buying public will go for a short front long bed. If you are trying to appeal to non truck buyers, would a longer bed be the way to go? These people are coming from cars and SUVs, they are going to prioritize interior space. I also see the home charging of full size ev trucks being a problem. Maybe it’s just me, but I’d prefer to have my vehicle inside the garage when charging. That’s hard to do with a full-size truck that doesn’t fit inside.

 

Shorter hoods can look decent if designers account for that. If t3 has a short hood, a massive cab, and a short bed, it would look odd. But that doesn't seem to be the case. Cab over trucks look like ass, like the canoo startup designs. But short hoods and cab overs are two separate things. 

 

Based off the clay model, what little we can see, it looks like the front end is pretty short, and the top of the fender drops down aggressively. That's me assuming we're looking at the front fender from the side here, which I can't prove. 

Edited December 12, 2023 by DeluxeStang

[AM222]

3 hours ago, DeluxeStang said:

Shorter hoods can look decent if designers account for that. If t3 has a short hood, a massive cab, and a short bed, it would look odd. But that doesn't seem to be the case. Cab over trucks look like ass, like the canoo startup designs. But short hoods and cab overs are two separate things. 

 

Based off the clay model, what little we can see, it looks like the front end is pretty short, and the top of the fender drops down aggressively. That's me assuming we're looking at the front fender from the side here, which I can't prove. 

Shorter hood can also mean a smaller less useful frunk. 

Hope the hood isn't stubby like the one on Toyota's electric EPU Pickup Concept.

*The EPU Concept is Maverick-sized, but has a wheelbase longer than the Ranger's.

Edited December 12, 2023 by AM222

[jpd80]

Mach E national dealer stock is now just under 16,000. vehicles,  it’s gaining about a thousand a month.

Incentives are the next step and if that doesn’t work, Ford will have to think hard about Mach E’s future.

[akirby]

9 hours ago, T-dubz said:

I’m concerned about any truck design that has a shorter front and longer bed. The most popular configuration of truck has been crew cab short bed for years, which means people are used to and prefer these proportions. I don’t think the general truck buying public will go for a short front long bed. If you are trying to appeal to non truck buyers, would a longer bed be the way to go? These people are coming from cars and SUVs, they are going to prioritize interior space. I also see the home charging of full size ev trucks being a problem. Maybe it’s just me, but I’d prefer to have my vehicle inside the garage when charging. That’s hard to do with a full-size truck that doesn’t fit inside.

 

I’m thinking they just shorten the hood a foot or so and give it a more useful 6-6.5 foot bed.

[blwnsmoke]

On 12/8/2023 at 7:46 PM, jpd80 said:

At that is moment, national dealer stock of Mach E has risen to just over 15,400,

pits been bumping up about 1,000 a month for the last three months or so…

 

Seriously, if buyers were interested, dealers would be moving a lot more vehicles than they are..

I think it’s everything and not just one thing, prices, bad press on Mach E problems, interest rates,

talk of reducing tax credits, prices and dealer mark ups - all have  contributed to the current apathy?

 

maybe it’s just easier for folks to go buy a Tesla Y and avoid all the ‘pain’ that comes with owning a Ford.

 

I'm working on a buyback right now for my VW.  My plan was to get an EV because my commute is approximately 700 miles a week across 6 days.  Biggest problem while I wait for the buyback is that as stated, the Mach-E is losing its credit.  The Y with the full $7,500 and it coming off immediately come Jan 1st is a major attraction to it despite me not really wanting a Tesla.  

 

Other options are a few vehicles that are getting 40+mpg in the $25k range.

[GearheadGrrrl]

From what I've read over on  tdiclub.com VW is again having to buy back TDIs they can't fix, hope they give you a decent price!

[blwnsmoke]

2 hours ago, GearheadGrrrl said:

From what I've read over on  tdiclub.com VW is again having to buy back TDIs they can't fix, hope they give you a decent price!

 

That's correct.  They denied my first request.. but I believe after speaking with my service manager they are going to approve it this time...  Still waiting for word on what direction we are going.  

 

Have had a DEF fault and CEL as well as using a full tank of DEF in about 4,000 miles where it's supposed to last 16k+.  My exhaust pipe is covered in white soot from the excessive DEF.  It's been in 9 times for this..  replaced NOX sensor twice, DEF heater/pump, DEF injector...   I got my car back on Wednesday evening last week after them having it for 23 days...   "all fixed"... Thursday afternoon, CEL and DEF fault, no start in 200 mile warning lol.  Been at dealer since Friday.  Between the dealer having the car and me having it but waiting on parts, we are at 95 days of some time of service for warranty.

 

Funny thing is, dealer knows it can't be fixed... already admitted it.  google searching the code I get leads to forums saying there is no fix.  I've had some really good in-depth conversations with the Service manager who 100% has my back (wish I recorded some of these conversations) but he has been on conference calls with corporate on how they can't wait for the 10 years to be up on these cars (my warranty is up in April of 24 on the emissions scandal).. and VW's direction to the dealers are, reset the code and let them drive off and cross their fingers it doesn't come back.  They are waiting to start the celebration of the warranty being over.

 

To add to all that, up until a little over a month ago, I was denied a loaner vehicle the whole time.  It wasn't till I read the court order and agreement that VW is required to provide a rental/loaner for any emissions repair beyond 3 hours (every single repair is beyond 3 hours).  So they've been in breach this whole time.

 

Sorry, I went way off topic....   lol..  but man, this is driving me nuts.

Edited December 12, 2023 by blwnsmoke

[GearheadGrrrl]

My 2015 Golf TDI at 70K miles hasn't had any mechanical failures yet, but from what I've read of the DEF system problems I've become very protective of that system- DEF starts to freeze at about 15 degrees F so I keep the TDI inside the attached garage all winter unless I'm driving it.

[Chrisgb]

16 hours ago, GearheadGrrrl said:

My 2015 Golf TDI at 70K miles hasn't had any mechanical failures yet, but from what I've read of the DEF system problems I've become very protective of that system- DEF starts to freeze at about 15 degrees F so I keep the TDI inside the attached garage all winter unless I'm driving it.

Inside is best, but does it not have a plug-in heater incorporated with a block heater? My SCR-equipped Cummins/Kenworth was set up this way, and sat outside plugged in when parked.

 

[GearheadGrrrl]

U.S. spec so no block heater, a DEF tank heater would have saved VW a ton O' money what with all the DEF tanks they've replaced and buybacks of cars they can't get DEF tanks for. One of the techs over at TDI Club commented the other day that the TDI warranty has cost VW nine times what they expected plus many of us 2015 owners are holding off on getting the final stage of the emissions mod. That puts the TDI warranties out through 2028 or so and VW has programmed an ending date of the emissions mod in their computer system for 2050!

 

May explain why Ford has backed off on offering Diesel engines in everything smaller than the Super Duties?