Ford’s Self-Clogging 1.0-Liter EcoBoost Engine Is Finally Getting Recalled

[silvrsvt]

https://www.thedrive.com/news/fords-self-clogging-1-0-liter-ecoboost-engine-is-finally-getting-recalled

 

hmmm kind has gone under the radar around here

[Chrisgb]

Ford is spending $2-3B annually on recalls, the highest of any manufacturer. Wouldn't it be more prudent to spend the money up front to make more reliable parts in the first place? Many unforeseen problems can crop up over a vehicle's life, and recalls cannot be totally eliminated, but there are many such as this 1.0 EcoBoost recall that are probably the result of buying the minimum spec, from the lowest bidder belt supplier.

[Rick73]

44 minutes ago, Chrisgb said:

Ford is spending $2-3B annually on recalls, the highest of any manufacturer. Wouldn't it be more prudent to spend the money up front to make more reliable parts in the first place? Many unforeseen problems can crop up over a vehicle's life, and recalls cannot be totally eliminated, but there are many such as this 1.0 EcoBoost recall that are probably the result of buying the minimum spec, from the lowest bidder belt supplier.

Article implied it was a bad tensioner that led to belt failure, and tensioner failure came about because of excessive vibration.  From my perspective added vibration must have been expected from a 3-cylinder engine (with no balance shaft as far as I know), which raises the bigger question of the extremes manufacturers are going to in order to improve fuel economy.  In US same EcoSport also had 2.0L inline-4 engine which hopefully was more trouble free, but other markets also offered 1.5L and 1.6L I-4 which should have less inherent vibration.

 

Fuel savings from smaller turbo 3-cylinder will not pay for many repairs IMO, which is why I prefer KISS choices when it comes to cars.  I don’t even like buying engines with timing belts because of replacement costs.

[DeluxeStang]

1 hour ago, Chrisgb said:

Ford is spending $2-3B annually on recalls, the highest of any manufacturer. Wouldn't it be more prudent to spend the money up front to make more reliable parts in the first place? Many unforeseen problems can crop up over a vehicle's life, and recalls cannot be totally eliminated, but there are many such as this 1.0 EcoBoost recall that are probably the result of buying the minimum spec, from the lowest bidder belt supplier.

Seems like they learned their lesson with the maverick. The maverick seems to be one of the first genuinely reliable affordable Ford's in quite some time. I wouldn't be surprised if there were some internal discussions at Ford on how they had to get the quality of their entry level vehicles right for a change. 

[akirby]

It all comes down to priorities.  If mgt puts the priority on cost savings and meeting dates they’ll continue to struggle.  They have to be willing to spend a little more on parts and engineering and to delay projects if things aren’t right or aren’t tested properly.  There have been signs they’re getting better but not sure how far they’ve come.

[Bob Rosadini]

I've always wondered about the downside of losing experienced senior people and its impact on quality.

[7Mary3]

 

[papilgee4evaeva]

^ That's one of my favorite channels!  Though I haven't watched that particular video yet.

 

Any reason why Ford went with a belt and not a chain on the oil pump?  Besides being cheap?

[Rick73]

How long are belts suppose to last before scheduled replacement?  It looks like it would be very expensive even if the belt didn’t fail and cause other damage.  I thought timing belts were bad enough, but in oil?  No wonder old-timers (and fleets) often prefer pushrod engines. ? 

 

For a small car with tiny engine, EcoSport fuel economy is relatively poor; in highway driving anyway.  Video’s reported EPA MPG was incorrect.  He said 23 City and 29 Highway, but that’s for the 2.0L naturally aspirated engine.  The 1.0L EcoBoost does better at 27 MPG in City rating.

 

EPA ratings of 29 MPG Highway for both engines show that 1.0L EcoBoost is no more efficient in highway cycle than 2.0L.

 

 

[akirby]

9 hours ago, Bob Rosadini said:

I've always wondered about the downside of losing experienced senior people and its impact on quality.

I was watching a video series on aviation safety with former NTSB investigators and they were commenting on Boeing’s recent engineering problems.  One of the guys was bald headed but wearing a cap and the other guy was gray haired.   The first guy raised his cap and said the problem is all the no hairs and gray hairs were leaving.  I think Ford has the same issue.

[danglin]

20 hours ago, Chrisgb said:

Ford is spending $2-3B annually on recalls, the highest of any manufacturer. Wouldn't it be more prudent to spend the money up front to make more reliable parts in the first place? Many unforeseen problems can crop up over a vehicle's life, and recalls cannot be totally eliminated, but there are many such as this 1.0 EcoBoost recall that are probably the result of buying the minimum spec, from the lowest bidder belt supplier.

 

Ford is reaping exactly what they are sowing!  Will see soon enough if all this talk by Farley of improving quality is true.

[CurtisH]

8 hours ago, papilgee4evaeva said:

^ That's one of my favorite channels!  Though I haven't watched that particular video yet.

 

Any reason why Ford went with a belt and not a chain on the oil pump?  Besides being cheap?

Apparently, Ford also uses a belt for the oil pump in the 2.7. The same YouTube channel did a tear down on a 2.7 from an F150 and it used a belt for the oil pump.  I’m not really sure why Ford, or anyone, would do that. 

[silvrsvt]

12 minutes ago, CurtisH said:

Apparently, Ford also uses a belt for the oil pump in the 2.7. The same YouTube channel did a tear down on a 2.7 from an F150 and it used a belt for the oil pump.  I’m not really sure why Ford, or anyone, would do that. 

 

The issue isn't the belt it was the tensioner attached to it. 

[CurtisH]

11 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

 

The issue isn't the belt it was the tensioner attached to it. 

I wasn’t claiming that the belt caused a problem.  I was just pointing out that Ford has used a belt for the oil pump on multiple engines. 

[Rick73]

1 hour ago, CurtisH said:

Apparently, Ford also uses a belt for the oil pump in the 2.7. The same YouTube channel did a tear down on a 2.7 from an F150 and it used a belt for the oil pump.  I’m not really sure why Ford, or anyone, would do that. 

To quote Waylon, “maybe it's time we got back to the basics“.  ? 

[j2sys]

3 hours ago, akirby said:

I was watching a video series on aviation safety with former NTSB investigators and they were commenting on Boeing’s recent engineering problems.  One of the guys was bald headed but wearing a cap and the other guy was gray haired.   The first guy raised his cap and said the problem is all the no hairs and gray hairs were leaving.  I think Ford has the same issue.

 

 

 

Edited January 11 by j2sys

[akirby]

That’s the one!

[1999 White C5 Coupe]

On 1/10/2024 at 11:08 AM, Chrisgb said:

Ford is spending $2-3B annually on recalls, the highest of any manufacturer. Wouldn't it be more prudent to spend the money up front to make more reliable parts in the first place? Many unforeseen problems can crop up over a vehicle's life, and recalls cannot be totally eliminated, but there are many such as this 1.0 EcoBoost recall that are probably the result of buying the minimum spec, from the lowest bidder belt supplier.

 

 

In 2023 Ford issued 57 vehicle safety campaigns involving more than six million vehicles.

 

In 2021, 2022 and 2023 Ford had the highest number of safety recall campaigns and the most vehicles subject to a safety recall.

 

Already  in 2024, Ford has issued a major safety recall involving more than 100,000 F-150pickup trucks.

 

When will the poor quality stop?

[DeluxeStang]

1 hour ago, 1999 White C5 Coupe said:

 

 

In 2023 Ford issued 57 vehicle safety campaigns involving more than six million vehicles.

 

In 2021, 2022 and 2023 Ford had the highest number of safety recall campaigns and the most vehicles subject to a safety recall.

 

Already  in 2024, Ford has issued a major safety recall involving more than 100,000 F-150pickup trucks.

 

When will the poor quality stop?

Ford's also one of the best selling brands in the world. The more vehicles you sell, the more issues you're gonna see. Toyota, GM, and Honda all recall a ton of cars as well. 

[akirby]

11 hours ago, 1999 White C5 Coupe said:

 

 

In 2023 Ford issued 57 vehicle safety campaigns involving more than six million vehicles.

 

In 2021, 2022 and 2023 Ford had the highest number of safety recall campaigns and the most vehicles subject to a safety recall.

 

Already  in 2024, Ford has issued a major safety recall involving more than 100,000 F-150pickup trucks.

 

When will the poor quality stop?

Im not defending Ford’s quality problems but you can’t just look at number of recalls or vehicles.  Ford has been a lot more proactive in issuing recalls than other mfrs.  The best measure is cost and we know a few of Ford’s problems have been very costly and they’ve also had repeat/continuing problems.

 

The high cost should be enough to force changes but it remains to be seen whether Ford truly understands the root causes and if they’re willing to do what’s necessary to fix them.

[lfeg]

On 1/11/2024 at 7:49 AM, akirby said:

I was watching a video series on aviation safety with former NTSB investigators and they were commenting on Boeing’s recent engineering problems.  One of the guys was bald headed but wearing a cap and the other guy was gray haired.   The first guy raised his cap and said the problem is all the no hairs and gray hairs were leaving.  I think Ford has the same issue.

To a degree. Give the grey hairs the time to properly train a younger crew to replace them. I have done it twice - it works.

[akirby]

26 minutes ago, lfeg said:

To a degree. Give the grey hairs the time to properly train a younger crew to replace them. I have done it twice - it works.

Yes but a lot of companies are getting rid of the older ones before hiring the younger ones.  And even with training there is still no substitute for experience.

 

In engineering experience helps you quickly avoid things you know won’t work or avoid things you know will be a problem down the road but sounds like a good idea.  Failure is the best teacher.

[silvrsvt]

I work for the Navy as a civilian and the thing that is really hurting us is that there was a long time hiring freeze in place for years. Something like better than 50% of the current workers are eligible for retirement in the next 10 years! We are trying to hire people, but the other thing that is often lost on people is demographics are killing us-Gen X is a smaller cohort then the baby boomers (who have almost all retired by now) and the younger millennials and older gen Z aren't really interested in engineering or other things like that, not to mention there are less of them to go around. There is going to be A LOT of issues with filling positions over the next 20 years or so due to aging and shrinking of the population in every industry-my Wife was running into that with her old job 5 years ago.  

 

So I'd expect shortages in certain things, esp as China gets older and as it looks like it might go through the same thing the old Soviet Union did 30 years ago-they seem to be having the same problems with corruption the Soviet Union had, going by the reports as of late. That is also why the US is trying to rebuild its industrial base at home and is working with other countries that are friendly with us to secure materials needed for the EV transition and so on...the world is going to become a more dangerous place as time goes on because the US isn't going to be as interested in playing world police for everyone because globalism will be rolled back to a significant degree because we'll just make it here or in North America some place. 

[DeluxeStang]

9 hours ago, akirby said:

Im not defending Ford’s quality problems but you can’t just look at number of recalls or vehicles.  Ford has been a lot more proactive in issuing recalls than other mfrs.  The best measure is cost and we know a few of Ford’s problems have been very costly and they’ve also had repeat/continuing problems.

 

The high cost should be enough to force changes but it remains to be seen whether Ford truly understands the root causes and if they’re willing to do what’s necessary to fix them.

Not to mention Ford will issue a recall over ANYTHING. Nissan is sitting by as their CVTs blow up, Toyota isn't doing much about all these motors they're having issues with, and Ford's in the back issuing recalls over the decorative roof rack rails on the explorer popping off into the back. I believe they recalled the ecosport to change a page in the owners manual and alter some of the writing on the brake fluid container. 

 

Hell, we own a maverick hybrid. Everyone said it wouldn't last, they'd be garbage, but it's one one of the most reliable hybrids you can buy lists. Ours had a weird shudder when it was colder out, it felt and sounded a bit like riding over a rumble strip. Some software updates later, and it's never come back.

 

Those have proven to be pretty reliable, yet people are still attacking them for issues recalls and TSBs. Meanwhile, over at Hyundai, their upper management is eating glue doing nothing while the sante Cruz's are dropping transmissions, having engine cut out issues, electrical issues, tailgates falling off, overheating components. Yet I've seen some claim the SC is a more reliable vehicle than the maverick, because it hasn't been recalled as much. It's ridiculous. No-one likes dealing with issues, but issues are unavoidable with any complex, mass produced product. At least Ford is trying to fix their products. 

[Captainp4]

 

On 1/12/2024 at 8:23 PM, 1999 White C5 Coupe said:

 

 

In 2023 Ford issued 57 vehicle safety campaigns involving more than six million vehicles.

 

In 2021, 2022 and 2023 Ford had the highest number of safety recall campaigns and the most vehicles subject to a safety recall.

 

Already  in 2024, Ford has issued a major safety recall involving more than 100,000 F-150pickup trucks.

 

When will the poor quality stop?

When they figure it out or go bankrupt. I have no interest in a new Ford right now unless things change drastically. Never owned anything but a Ford or Ford owned brand, but all I see is problems out of almost every single model.