REPORT: Ford Edge Production Continuation Wasn't Possible

[Oac98]

On 4/5/2024 at 10:04 AM, ice-capades said:

REPORT: Ford Edge Production Continuation Wasn't Possible

https://fordauthority.com/2024/04/ford-edge-production-continuation-wasnt-possible-report/

 

 

Back in the fall of 2020, Ford and the Canadian union Unifor reached a new contract agreement containing terms that went far beyond the typical pay raises and improvements to benefits. In fact, this new deal set in motion some major changes for the automaker’s Oakville Assembly plant, which at the time produced two vehicles – the Ford Edge and Lincoln Nautilus. This new deal laid out plans to retool the plant for the production of all-electric vehicles in the future, and since then, production of the redesigned 2024 Nautilus has moved to China, while Edge production is slated to end later this month. Given the fact that The Blue Oval just announced that it’s delaying the start of Ford Explorer EV production at Oakville from 2025 to 2027, many wondered why Ford Edge production wasn’t extended, but it seems as if such a move just isn’t possible, according to a new report from Automotive News.

 

 

According to this report, Unifor workers at the Oakville plant received a memo informing them that FoMoCo “did extensive study into the possibility of extending” Ford Edge production at the facility following its decision to delay production of the forthcoming North American Explorer EV. However, it ultimately came to the conclusion that – due to “supply case constraints and emissions requirements” – that it was best served to continue its plans to begin retooling the plant in Q2 of 2024. According to the memo, this delay “allows us to improve vehicle quality and benefit our customers by leveraging emerging battery and other technologies.”

 

In the meantime, it’s unclear what workers at Oakville will be tasked with doing for the next couple of years, though Ford did note that it “will work with Unifor to mitigate the impact the launch delay will have on its workforce at Oakville.” “We value our Canadian teammates and appreciate that this delay will have an impact on this excellent team,” Ford CEO Jim Farley added. “We are fully committed to manufacturing in Canada and believe this decision will help us build a profitably growing business for the long term.” Regardless, Unifor wasn’t exactly pleased with this delay, as Ford Authority reported yesterday.

 

 

“Unifor is extremely disappointed by the company’s decision. Our members have done nothing but build best-in-class vehicles for Ford Motor Company and they deserve certainty in the company’s future production plans,” said Unifor National President Lana Payne. “I want to be very clear here. Our members can be assured that we will push the company to explore every single possible opportunity to lessen the impact of this decision on them and their families.”

Farley never had any intention of continuing the commodity product Edge. He would rather have an assembly plant site idle til 2027 which is insane! I don’t believe this study bullshit. 

[ExplorerDude]

On 4/6/2024 at 9:37 PM, Ares said:

Not to go off topic, but since it was mentioned here, what are the odds that CD6 will ever be used for anything beyond the current Explorer/Aviator? Weren’t the original Edge/Nautilus redesigns going to utilize the platform? I wonder if there’s any regrets scrapping those since the EV delays. 

The odds are supposedly pretty good in that it will be used for the next gen Explorer/Aviator at the end of the decade. Beyond those two there is nothing else attached to CD6 yet.

[DeluxeStang]

2 hours ago, ExplorerDude said:

The odds are supposedly pretty good in that it will be used for the next gen Explorer/Aviator at the end of the decade. Beyond those two there is nothing else attached to CD6 yet.

Weren't there some coupes and sedans that were going to use CD6 at one point? It's such a shame those projects were canned. 

[Ares]

1 hour ago, DeluxeStang said:

Weren't there some coupes and sedans that were going to use CD6 at one point? It's such a shame those projects were canned. 

https://blueovalforums.com/forums/index.php?/topic/66486-reliable-source-told-me-rear-drive-lincoln-coupe-and-sedan-coming-soon/

 

 

Seems like it. Big shame.

[jpd80]

4 hours ago, Oac98 said:

Farley never had any intention of continuing the commodity product Edge. He would rather have an assembly plant site idle til 2027 which is insane! I don’t believe this study bullshit. 

Yeah and even if it was possible, ita good bet that Farley would have made sure the answer was no.

Extending the existing Edge would be a huge embarrassment after taking up new BEV products.

Its the same thing as when he ducked the dealer discussion, better to avoid a conversation altogether.

 

Like I said in the other thread, Ford is redesigning these BEVs for the third time……Yikes.

Edited April 9 by jpd80

[Oac98]

3 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Yeah and even if it was possible, ita good bet that Farley would have made sure the answer was no.

Extending the existing Edge would be a huge embarrassment after taking up new BEV products.

Its the same thing as when he ducked the dealer discussion, better to avoid a conversation altogether.

 

Like I said in the other thread, Ford is redesigning these BEVs for the third time……Yikes.

I agree with you, he explicitly said the Mach-E is way better than the Edge and we don’t want commodity products we want passion products lol. They realize the product they’re working on probably wouldn’t even sell 50000 a year so that’s why we’re in this mess. Some people honestly believe the next step will be a plant closure. I won’t go that far yet, anything is possible with Ford. 

[davele]

5 hours ago, Oac98 said:

I agree with you, he explicitly said the Mach-E is way better than the Edge and we don’t want commodity products we want passion products lol. They realize the product they’re working on probably wouldn’t even sell 50000 a year so that’s why we’re in this mess. Some people honestly believe the next step will be a plant closure. I won’t go that far yet, anything is possible with Ford. 

From the letter I seen, they are going ahead with the re-tooling.  That's a big spend to simply shut down.

[Oac98]

39 minutes ago, davele said:

From the letter I seen, they are going ahead with the re-tooling.  That's a big spend to simply shut down.

I know they’re going ahead with it but anything can change 

[Andrew L]

On 4/9/2024 at 2:52 AM, Ares said:

https://blueovalforums.com/forums/index.php?/topic/66486-reliable-source-told-me-rear-drive-lincoln-coupe-and-sedan-coming-soon/

 

 

Seems like it. Big shame.

 

It would be a shame if they did give up on CD6.  I find it hard to believe they can't build anything else off CD6.  Is CD6 not flexible at all?

 

C2 is a step in the right direction they have a bunch of models built off of it currently.

CD6 only has the Explorer and Aviator currently. 

S650 only has the Mustang

After that they have Truck and Van platforms.

[akirby]

18 minutes ago, Andrew L said:

 

It would be a shame if they did give up on CD6.  I find it hard to believe they can't build anything else off CD6.  Is CD6 not flexible at all?

 

C2 is a step in the right direction they have a bunch of models built off of it currently.

CD6 only has the Explorer and Aviator currently. 

S650 only has the Mustang

After that they have Truck and Van platforms.

It’s not that they can’t.  It’s a question of cost and ROI.  S650 uses a lot of cd6 parts.

 

The only real advantage for cd6 over C2 is the ability to support high performance powertrains including full time 4wd.  Body on frame is better for larger SUVs and trucks and C2 is better for the smaller stuff.

 

The only thing I see that would benefit is a mid to large car and we know that ship has sailed.  And Explorer/F150 make better police vehicles.

[Joe771476]

Just hand over the crossover market. Just like Ford handed over Class 8 heavy truck, farm tractor, and the mid and full-size sedan biz. What's left? Ford light and medium duty truck, Explorer and Mustang!  That's it!

[akirby]

30 minutes ago, Joe771476 said:

Just hand over the crossover market. Just like Ford handed over Class 8 heavy truck, farm tractor, and the mid and full-size sedan biz. What's left? Ford light and medium duty truck, Explorer and Mustang!  That's it!

You forgot Transit, Maverick, Bronco, Bronco Sport, Mach-E, Escape, Expedition, Navigator, Nautilus, Corsair and Aviator.  But who’s counting.

[ExplorerDude]

On 4/8/2024 at 11:05 PM, Oac98 said:

Farley never had any intention of continuing the commodity product Edge. He would rather have an assembly plant site idle til 2027 which is insane! I don’t believe this study bullshit. 

The sad part is I would have never considered the first gen Edge as a commodity product by any means. The first gen was way more of a passion product. There was nothing else quite like it at the time outside of the Nissan Murano.

 

Yes, perhaps the second gen is more of a commodity product. But its popularity is amazingly still pretty good for a decade old design.

 

Only one person decided that the Edge was a commodity and it should be dropped. Farley really only loves the Mustang family, Bronco family, F-Series and Maverick.

[Oac98]

9 minutes ago, ExplorerDude said:

The sad part is I would have never considered the first gen Edge as a commodity product by any means. The first gen was way more of a passion product. There was nothing else quite like it at the time outside of the Nissan Murano.

 

Yes, perhaps the second gen is more of a commodity product. But its popularity is amazingly still pretty good for a decade old design.

 

Only one person decided that the Edge was a commodity and it should be dropped. Farley really only loves the Mustang family, Bronco family, F-Series and Maverick.

I agree but there’s no changing course anymore. They made the moves they feel is best for the company. With the Edge on the way out we will see how much sales of their other crossovers and suvs increase. 

[jpd80]

3 hours ago, Oac98 said:

I agree but there’s no changing course anymore. They made the moves they feel is best for the company. With the Edge on the way out we will see how much sales of their other crossovers and suvs increase. 

 

I sense that Ford is still in denial  with the continuing ned for gasoline vehicles…

I have a feeling that newly discovered efficiencies in manufacturing and equipment may be behind 

a lot of the product delays, maybe Ford is learning so much that emerging product needs to already

be redesigned lest it be DOA to customers.

Edited April 11 by jpd80

[joseodiaga4]

30 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

 

I sense that Ford is still in denial about the continuing need for gasoline vehicles…

I have a feeling that newly discovered efficiencies in manufacturing and equipment may be behind 

a lot of the product delays, maybe Ford is learning so much that emerging product needs to already

be redesigned lest it be DOA to customers.

Yeah but it is the 3rd time this products are delayed, couldn’t they have discovered it before?

also you need a balance between the efficiency and the products because if not you are always going to find something new or an improvement to do and in that way you wouldn’t launch anything

Edited April 11 by joseodiaga4

[Gurgeh]

11 hours ago, Oac98 said:

I agree but there’s no changing course anymore. They made the moves they feel is best for the company. With the Edge on the way out we will see how much sales of their other crossovers and suvs increase. 

I recently bought the 2024 Nautilus and follow issues related to the vehicle on a couple of Facebook sites. One thing I've noticed is that there seems to be three distinct groups buying the new Nautilus: (1) previous generation Nautilus owners (like me) -- and sometimes past Aviator owners or people who went into the Lincoln dealership thinking they wanted to buy an Aviator but didn't really need that third seat or towing capacity and found they liked the Nautilus better, (2) a variety of former Lexus/BMW/MB/Genesis owners, and (3) former Edge owners, especially Edge ST owners. Most of them are generally happy with their purchase and compare the Nautilus favorably to their previous vehicle. One common complaint among the Edge ST owners, however, is the lower off-the-line torque -- but only off-the-line -- with the 2.0 hybrid than with their previous 2.7, though they still like and prefer the new Nautilus overall. The odd thing is that you don't find former Nautilus 2.7 owners saying the same thing as much. I think it is because former Nautilus owners are established Lincoln buyers and understand the whole point of Lincolns is the quality of the drive and the luxury of the car, not its 0-60 number. Whereas Edge ST buyers often bought that ST specifically because from time to time they really liked to punch that accelerator from a standing stop.

 

That said, while I think the new Nautilus is a great vehicle and wish its production had stayed in North America, it really isn't a full replacement for the Edge. While the lowest trim 2024 Nautilus gives you great value in a luxury mid-sized crossover, it still goes for a lot more than an Edge.

Edited April 11 by Gurgeh

[akirby]

7 hours ago, jpd80 said:

 

I sense that Ford is still in denial  with the continuing ned for gasoline vehicles…

I have a feeling that newly discovered efficiencies in manufacturing and equipment may be behind 

a lot of the product delays, maybe Ford is learning so much that emerging product needs to already

be redesigned lest it be DOA to customers.

 

They're not in denial they just announced hybrids for every gasoline vehicle.  They just overreacted to the EV sales boom and pending government regulations and tried to do too much too fast.  T3 was the right move and timing.  I think Mach-E and Lightning were the right moves at the time and they learned a lot.  But the mess with Oakville and VW and Rivian was a cluster F of epic proportion.

 

And I don’t understand why you keep harping on design.  They didn’t create a skunkworks team and delay projects to just work on design.  It’s all about lowering the cost of EVs from battery type, source, design and size/range to vehicle design to electronics to manufacturing processes and suppliers.  They obviously identified improvements for T3 in addition to new vehicles and that made the ones planned for Oakville obsolete.

[rmc523]

8 minutes ago, akirby said:

 

They're not in denial they just announced hybrids for every gasoline vehicle.  They just overreacted to the EV sales boom and pending government regulations and tried to do too much too fast.  T3 was the right move and timing.  I think Mach-E and Lightning were the right moves at the time and they learned a lot.  But the mess with Oakville and VW and Rivian was a cluster F of epic proportion.

 

And I don’t understand why you keep harping on design.  They didn’t create a skunkworks team and delay projects to just work on design.  It’s all about lowering the cost of EVs from battery type, source, design and size/range to vehicle design to electronics to manufacturing processes and suppliers.  They obviously identified improvements for T3 in addition to new vehicles and that made the ones planned for Oakville obsolete.

 

I think his point is that there are always going to be improvements that they find....and if you keep waiting for things to be "perfect", you'll never get there, and have endless delays because they're always finding something better.

I think they should've kept the Rivian Lincoln product to gauge reaction and to give them an EV product until their in-house stuff was ready.

[akirby]

30 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

 

I think his point is that there are always going to be improvements that they find....and if you keep waiting for things to be "perfect", you'll never get there, and have endless delays because they're always finding something better.

I think they should've kept the Rivian Lincoln product to gauge reaction and to give them an EV product until their in-house stuff was ready.

I agree with that.  But I think we’re underestimating the impact of the changes from the skunkworks team.  I think they are fundamentally changing the way Ford designs and builds EVs which will either give them a big cost advantage or at worst keep them on par with other industry leaders.  You don’t need 100 people working for 2 years in secret just to redesign a couple of vehicles.  It’s far more fundamental in my opinion especially considering the team members.

[Gurgeh]

38 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

 

I think his point is that there are always going to be improvements that they find....and if you keep waiting for things to be "perfect", you'll never get there, and have endless delays because they're always finding something better.

I think they should've kept the Rivian Lincoln product to gauge reaction and to give them an EV product until their in-house stuff was ready.

I agree, but I also get the caution on the current state of EVs due to the rapid development of the technology. ICE is a pretty mature technology. Five years from now drivers can expect somewhat better MPG and (maybe) performance from ICE vehicles, and certainly a lot more hybrids. But from EVs many anticipate a dramatic improvement in range and/or weight with the emergence of solid state batteries. Still, the smartphone syndrome is real. In one or two years there's always going to be a much better device available. Why (ever) buy now?

[rmc523]

2 minutes ago, akirby said:

I agree with that.  But I think we’re underestimating the impact of the changes from the skunkworks team.  I think they are fundamentally changing the way Ford designs and builds EVs which will either give them a big cost advantage or at worst keep them on par with other industry leaders.  You don’t need 100 people working for 2 years in secret just to redesign a couple of vehicles.  It’s far more fundamental in my opinion especially considering the team members.

 

I also think this EV delay would be more of a moot point (i.e. wait until they get them right outside of Mach E/Lightning that are already here) if they'd stick to consistent refreshes/redesigns of their entire product line.  Instead, we continually have abnormally long product cycles - 4-5 years for refreshes, 7-8 years (or longer in Edge's case) for non F-series products, while the competition is on 3-6 year cycles for most products like clockwork.

[rmc523]

Just now, Gurgeh said:

I agree, but I also get the caution on the current state of EVs due to the rapid development of the technology. ICE is a pretty mature technology. Five years from now drivers can expect somewhat better MPG and (maybe) performance from ICE vehicles, and certainly a lot more hybrids. But from EVs many anticipate a dramatic improvement in range and/or weight with the emergence of solid state batteries. Still, the smartphone syndrome is real. In one or two years there's always going to be a much better device available. Why (ever) buy now?

 

I understand too - but it has seemed like those sorts of upgrades can be swapped out "on the fly" after production has started, rather than continually pushing back new product.

As I pointed out above, it'd be a bit different story if ICE products weren't gutted for EVs, so now it's the worst of both worlds - EV product delays and limited new/updated ICE products until they can push both out.

[akirby]

24 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

 

I understand too - but it has seemed like those sorts of upgrades can be swapped out "on the fly" after production has started, rather than continually pushing back new product.

As I pointed out above, it'd be a bit different story if ICE products weren't gutted for EVs, so now it's the worst of both worlds - EV product delays and limited new/updated ICE products until they can push both out.

Don’t disagree but most of what the skunkworks was working on was new vehicles.  And some things are just too fundamental to be easily changed later.  It could also just be the need to focus more resources on development of the new cheaper EVs that have a much better ROI than what was in Oakville.  And maybe Oakville isn’t cancelled but really is just on hold due to resources.  Hard to say.

 

Thats always been a problem with Ford.  Not enough resources to do everything and no appetite for building new plants or hiring more people.  They just seem to make do with what they have to keep costs down and end up making a lot of product compromises.

[mackinaw]

2 hours ago, akirby said:

I agree with that.  But I think we’re underestimating the impact of the changes from the skunkworks team.  I think they are fundamentally changing the way Ford designs and builds EVs which will either give them a big cost advantage or at worst keep them on par with other industry leaders.  You don’t need 100 people working for 2 years in secret just to redesign a couple of vehicles.  It’s far more fundamental in my opinion especially considering the team members.

 To me, it's telling that the skunkworks team is in California, not Dearborn.  Some people on this forum love to bitch about Ford's bureaucracy and "silos."  Fewer than 100 engineers working 2,400 miles away from Michigan should address that issue.