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Sorry for the clickbait title but that is the actual title of the article from Detroit Free Press. The article is actually a compilation of several interviews with Mach E owners, most of them in California. Spoiler alert: everyone loves their Mach E ? https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/ford/2021/03/09/2021-ford-mustang-mach-e-reviews-owners/4636946001/?utm_campaign=snd-autopilot This guys probably lurks here ? He's got the entire Ford line up in his garage and two of them are stick shift. He even has an EcoSport. That's a serious commitment to the blue oval... I like Ford but I would never buy an EcoSport.

I think the reality here is that both Ford and Jeep know their entry level products are more about image than ability. Don't get me wrong, the Compass, Cherokee and BS, even in their lower models with less off road worthiness, have more capability than 95% ~ of their buyers will use. The more off road versions would probably be at 98%~. If you need more, off road ability there is a Wrangler or Bronco for that. The numbers don't support over engineering a part that is currently sufficient for all but 2% of the buyers. It's smart to have the electronics intervene and prevent damage. It's a much better idea than having it overheat and then it's toast. Think about this, how many people are going to hoon their Bronco Sport for 15 minutes straight in the sand full throttle? 15 minutes is a long time in that context. Where this hurts the most is image/marketing. The appeal of the Bronco Sport and how it's being marketed is that is can go anywhere (reasonable) and that gives people the "I have it if I need it" mentality. Now as stated above, most customers won't have any issue. However, the more the press brings it up the more of the image of the BS takes a hit, even though it's really a non issue.

It's being kept tight-lipped, but I assume it's a Lincoln electric whitespace vehicle. It began as a China product but I believe the scope has since expanded. It's being engineered in Dearborn with some talent they very recently picked off from, um, elsewhere.

Couldn’t agree more! I have watched several reviews of the BS on YouTube where the vehicle was used as designed (I think @akirby linked a great vid in one of these threads). I was impressed with how the BS made some “difficult” situations seem effortless when the correct drive mode was engaged. Education is key, read the manual.

Exactly. It comes across as harsh at times but he's not talking out of his ass, he clearly has some knowledge about what he's saying. I really don't believe he's being unfair.

I don't find Savage Geese and his team to be haughty at all. He is more knowledgeable about automotive engineering than most other amateur automotive reviewers. His reviews are very objective and he doesn't recite stuff from automakers' marketing materials in his reviews. Very refreshing. I wouldn't be surprised if Savage Geese has an engineering or related degree. Ford branded vehicles in the U.S. market are well known for cheap looking, cheap feeling interior materials and design (except for high end F-Series, Expedition, and Mustang Mach-E). For Ford sheeple like me, it's just something we accept. But for a general audience, Savage Geese is justified in pointing this out.

Like engines, it sure seems prudent to build your own electric motors and batteries in house if you plan on building millions of hybrids and all electric vehicles. More importantly, it will keep your union force happy and content.

A lot of people. Marketers at Ford, Honda, and Toyota specifically tout an "active lifestyle" or "outdoorsy" image in their promotions of those vehicles.

That is something Tesla is really good at.

Yes sir, but "any other CUV" are less capable off road than this Bronco.

Marketing people who promote these crossovers as having that "capability" are being dishonest and misleading customers, as CKNSLS mentioned in another thread.

But it is still a crab apple to honey crisp comparison. The ‘18 F150 added vastly more equipment and changes. New 10 speed auto, updated Coyote, updated 2.7 ecoboost, new grill and facias. 3.5EB and 10 speed came a little early as they were in the ‘17. The 8sp auto wasn’t ready yet and the styling changes were so subtle you really had to look. The fusion styling has aged well and still looks good. But it needed some new wiz bang features to keep people interested. Fseries delivers on that time and time again.

I wonder what will happen to the battery plant in GA. If Ford does follow VW’s lead, that will surely put the plant in jeopardy. Either that or Hyundai /Kia will need to dramatically increase production. Sure seemed like LG was counting on picking up a bunch of business out of the ruling against SK. With that quickly evaporating, it might put additional pressure on the two of them to settle. If Ford needs to find a new supplier, no reason to go with LG...they did throw the wrench in Ford’s plan after all.

Yes sir FR739, I agree with you there is a difference. The difference is in degree not in concept though. Both examples involve misleading information and dishonesty as CKNSLS mentioned. This is why the automotive industry is regulated heavily. Consumers and government officials very correctly don't trust the industry to police itself.

It's the front wheel drive bias. Those front wheel drive based systems are not designed to supply that much power solely to the rear wheels for very long. Less so when there's more of the vehicles weight on over the rear wheels vs. normal conditions. Even with the bigger clutch packs in the PTU that Jeep tends to use they will still overheat in that situation. It is what it is and it's why it's so crucial to make sure you are in the proper drive mode.

Evidence that SK Innovation stole or misappropriated trade secrets from LG Chem or LG Energy is scant. The litigation that is the subject of this thread is U.S. only, though LGC and SKI were involved in legal disputes in South Korea between 2011 and 2014.

I don't think its too much to ask for a vehicle with a name "Bronco" on it to hold up to abuse of the said reviews. Especially if Jeep is the target. I would expect a Kia SUV to have these issues. While this isn't the "end of the world" it is concerning. The video I posted from YouTube was a production Bronco Sport for reference that over heated. As mentioned, the good news is there is the Mid size Bronco which appears to be the real deal and will handle the extremes.

Got a hunch Ford is nervous about GM reopening Oshawa and building trucks there. That gives GM 3 large U.S. truck plants, Flint, Fort Wayne, and Oshawa. They also have a big one in Mexico and their medium duty trucks are built by partners Navistar and Isuzu. Possible they could outproduce Ford now. Maybe Ford needs to keep Avon Lake building trucks?

They beefed it up with cooling and a disconnect feature. The temp warning has been in use in multiple vehicles for a few years now. No matter how good it is it’s still not designed to send power to the rear continuously for hours. The badlands models have upgraded components. If those start overheating frequently while in the correct mode with actual owners then it might be an issue. It’s too early to tell, but I believe Ford did a lot of testing and I believe them that they never saw this. If that makes me a kool aid drinker so be it.

I mean anything is fairly capable if you don't give a fuck about it enough, I've had buddy's run trails in 2wd trucks that I never thought would be possible, but enough speed and disregard for the vehicle will make it do lots of things lol. But you're right, education on the electronics and drive modes and their limitations are important factors. I'd note in all these articles the bronco sport never failed, it just gave itself a break to cool down so it wouldn't fail.

I read that when it published. I generally like David Tracy's writing (he's really the only one left at Jalopnik I enjoy. Everyone else seems to hate cars) but he's expecting way more than what this is capable of.

You have to know what you're buying. You can't expect a c car fwd platform to perform like a midsize pickup based utility in the same way I wouldn't expect a midsize pickup based utility to perform the same as my one ton axled 4 linked 78 bronco on one ton axles and 42s... People buying the bronco sport aren't going to be rock crawling and blasting around in the dunes with them. They might see a dirt road or unpaved park road on the way to park somewhere to go hiking or kayaking or whatever those types do. It's a "lifestyle" vehicle and even then, most of the people buying them won't ever leave pavement. Thinking of getting one for my gf to commute in.. but I have no delusions of her driving it on our next off road park trip and doing anything that we do offroad with our dedicated off road rigs. Did see an article on jalopnik about it where the write spoke with a Ford engineer about it.. the conclusion was basically "we built it for who we know is going to buy it and what their expectations are". I'll see if I can find it again.

I watched both of those when they came out. I don't believe he said anything that was too unfair at the time, audio system complaints not withstanding.

A stuck thermostat is most definitely not a fully functional vehicle. All of these vehicles are engineered to withstand whatever climate it's intended to be sold in plus a few extreme circumstances to account for the occasional heat wave or deep freeze. Yes ambient temperature will effect performance but it shouldn't be detrimental .

Absolutely. This is all about building the right vehicles in the right locations and appropriate cost centers. Ford US is experts on trucks and bigger utilities/SUVS, so it gets to do the electrified versions, Ford Mexico gets the three Ford developed BEVs in the one plant at Cuautitlan for cost control. Ford Canada is gateway to Europe and ROW markets, they have a big role in supplying vehicles to the US and a lot off other markets, they will do North America proud.

While it may take a little longer than 15 minutes it’s still a possibility. Even at -20 a car will still overheat with a stuck thermostat.

So true. Nothing about small SUVs (because I refuse to use the made up marketing term crossover) is about capability. The vast majority have no more capability than an AWD sedan. But sedans became the new minivan and nobody wanted to be seen in them. It’s a facade of capability and all about image.

Yes sir twintornados. Tesla's dishonest and misleading marketing is getting worse nowadays.

That summarizes the whole crossover craze perfectly.

I would think the UAW should be fighting like hell to keep any EV production [batteries included] in the US. Like it or not, it is the future. An electric Superduty would be good for that plant but that ain't happening any time soon.

Thanks for the link. So Equator has the Borgwarner DCT, just manufactured by the BW-SAIC joint venture. I have to wonder if Ford is doing this as a deliberate strategy or because it is capacity constrained on its own drivetrain. Mitsubishi 4G20 engine and this BW-SAIC 6 speed DCT are both really outdated tech. It would seem that Ford should be using its own 2.0 EB and 8 speed auto but maybe it just can't get enough of either to supply the projected volume.

I drive by that plant all the time but haven’t been that way in about 8’weeks. Not sure if construction is still progressing or not but hope this gets settled or tossed. Another reason Ford needs to get into the battery business or partner with VW on making their own batteries.

Thanks for the link. That was back in 2013, so not exactly a new design. Should have the bugs ? worked out by now.

Very well put. I fully agree.

Oh without a doubt. But there is a difference in calling something “full self driving” that most certainly is not and a poorly engineered PTU.

Thats my entire point. Nothing more, nothing less.

Thank you for the kind words. I appreciate it! I did rant to the Concierge several times, but always politely.

Volkswagen's announcement during its Power Day event earlier this week that it would be moving to prismatic batteries from pouch style has both LG Energy and SK Innovation worried. I wonder if Ford will follow VW's lead? VW's new battery strategy stuns South Korean suppliers (autonews.com)

Just a guess: Oakville: MEB plant Cuautitlán: Model E plant Ohio: New medium duty - assuming Ford actually has a plan to replace E-series and F-650 Chicago: CD6 plant Louisville: C2 plant #1 Hermosillo: C2 plant #2 Kentucky: Superduty and Expedition Kansas City: Transit and F-150 Detroit: F-150 Michigan: T6 plant Flat Rock: S650 plant Flat Rock will need more products... can't keep the lights on with just Mustang in the long haul.

Internet? That describes everyone these days.

Does anyone know what CD 764 is? Rumor says it's a mkz replacement for China and may become a global model if reacted positively but I couldn't find any detail of it.

Which part are you taking issue with? I never said Ford didn’t understand truck buyers. I was equating the Fusion refresh and the F150 refresh and how some think that the Fusion sales were hampered because of its similarity to the previous model. But we see that with the F150 and it doesn’t affect sales. There’s a hypocrisy there. Chevy has not seen a lack of sales due to the styling of the Silverado. In fact, it’s helped GM overtake Ford in truck sales and has helped in giving GM over 6 billion in earnings.

Welcome to the internet...where everyone has a knee jerk reaction to everything lets be jaded here popular new product plus random issue with two vehicles=profit for the websites getting clicks on those said pages

There were only 2 incidents and both were pre production units. The hill climb incident was in an outer banks model which doesn’t have the additional PTU cooling and it recovered in 5 minutes. The 2nd one was a badlands but was driven “like a freakin’ idiot” in the sand for 15 minutes and she doesn’t know if it was in sand mode or not, which means probably not. But by all means let’s overreact.

All they did was find the limits of the system before it temporarily shut down, that's way different to a premature failure. If the Bronco Sport is insufficient for your needs, then get yourself a Bronco and if Bronco is still insufficient, then go build yourself a custom off road vehicle.

For some reason, this just comes off as sleazy. Trying to bribe politicians to hold SK to the fire and come in and be the hero. Makes me curious about the money trail to/from LG and the ITC. GM can probably be included as well since they stand to benefit from SK being shut out of the market. Then the ITC started slamming Ford for working with SK knowing that they used stolen technology. I saw Ford responded that the deals in question had already been in the works before any of it surfaced. Was there any actual evidence that SK stole information and used it or just that they had destroyed it? Are any other countries involved in the lawsuit or just the US?

We talk about range anxiety in BEV cars and utilities but what about BEV trucks that are constantly loaded and need continue power to drive them to their delivery points and return. The charging times for such Giant battery packs would make interstate travel uncompetitive against diesel trucks and that's before we even discuss the lack of BEV truck charging facilities, so any BEV trucks sold today would be almost compelled to return to a home base depot or a another depot. And all of that is considered when states have fragile power networks barely capable of keeping up now... Who's going to pay up front for all the added generation and supply infrastructure needed?

After a discussion in the moderator forum, we have decided to cut down on the amount of off topic talk in the threads and I just cleaned up the Maverick thread due to it veering off topic from COVID delays (affecting Ford products, which is on topic) and that going into Politics (which is not) (full disclosure from my end-I actually got it from my family back around Christmas-everyone is healthy now and I generally agree with 3/4 of the stuff people are saying here) While I've been guilty of going off topic myself, do not take anything the moderators doing personally and if you have an issue with it, feel free to drop us a PM.

The CEO of Generac was on CNBC the other day and said they have a long backlog for their generators, and even longer backlog of having it installed as permits are needed. They are building a 2nd plant in SC, but even then they cannot keep up with demand. Generac also does solar powered generators. Look for all auto companies to copy Ford Powerboost within year or two.

It could be worse, places like South Africa now has such an unreliable power grid that most people now have their own generators that cut in the moment mains supply is interrupted. Texas is in a completely different situation, a 20 year weather event doesn't justify going out buying a generator for back up but if another event happens in two or three years, maybe people start to think about it.