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I came home and took two showers. Still feels dirty..... 😎

I always viewed that Lightning as a stopgap until they got a more “complete” offering together

Exactly. Done on the cheap by using existing F150 with T3 planned as the ground up EV truck. I don't think it was a mistake in that context. I think the mistake was overestimating actual demand.

Well to be fair, Jim has “no idea” about a lot of things. Par for the course with this latest quote.

In today’s fast-paced product development world, staying competitive means constantly improving design and manufacturing. Munro Associates helps companies do exactly that using its design-first approach and proprietary Lean Design® methodology—reducing cost while improving efficiency, performance, and quality. An outside perspective can uncover opportunities internal teams may miss due to “group think.” Munro’s engineers challenge assumptions and analyze products from the ground up to identify hidden complexity and cost drivers. A great example is the Ford Mustang Mach-E frunk. By questioning the original design—filled with extra covers, fasteners, and brackets—Munro developed a simpler, more cost-effective solution that demonstrates the power of Lean Design.

A "frunkless" Mustang Mach E....what it looks like under the front hood.

“I Would’ve Done The F-150 Lightning Differently” …then why didn’t he? After all, he is the CEO of Ford Motor Company. Admitting mistakes is one thing, but repeating mistakes time and time again is another.

Count me in as one of those looking forward to CE1 - My commute has changed since I retired and I believe an EV will be my next daily driver and the CE1 truck seems like a natural progression from my Maverick hybrid.... ADD ON: Seeing the roll out of Rivian's R2 SUV, it would be right up my alley, but...being Ford centric, I will reserve judgement until CE1 comes to market.

And for money invested the Lightning was well spent in getting a place holder in there against the BEV sSilverado Interestingly, Ford first delayed and then canceled its ground up designed BEV replacement for the Lightning, I think the truth was it wasn’t all that different to the Chevrolet BEV Silverado that gets modest sales… I just think that Ford and GM thought they could replicate Tesla’s success with BEVs but with big profitable vehicles, it was a Cha Ching moment from word go, they thought they were going to cash in big time while still selling their highly profitable full sized ICE trucks……both brands drank the Kool aid and didn’t see the warning signs

My daughter married a Ford man, so I at least did something right in raising her! 😄 He's got 4 Ford trucks and is trading one of them for a '67 F150 that he's going to restore.

Which government policy benefits oil companies and automakers? Certainly not CAFE. Certainly not EV tax rebates or pending legislation outlawing ICE altogether. Democrat goverment policy cost automakers tens of billions of dollars and created artificial demand. All because liberals screamed that SUVs would burn up the planet and drown coastal cities. Certainly not the chicken tax (stupid as it is) because the Japanese already build light trucks here and the Koreans may be following suit. Nobody is forcing consumers to buy larger trucks and suvs. A Rav4 is more expensive than Camry and corolla but outsells both. Toyota/Lexus still has a full lineup of cars yet trucks and suvs outsold cars last year 1.8M to 700k. That's not lack of product or government policy it's simple consumer preference.

Its called Government subsidies, Jim.....

0W-8? Wow, that's thinner than my wife's coffee!

Your opinion may be unpopular but it is true. Ford basically replaced Edge with Mach E and Bronco. Except both were on the fringe of that segment and missed the mark which Farley has repeatedly try to gaslight everyone by saying it doesn't exist. Farley is the only CEO that kept saying there is no market for 2-row mid/large CUV. The reality clearly disagree with him. With a few exception, this list of vehicles are all selling just fine. Chevy Blazer Honda Pilot Hyundai Santa Fe Jeep Grand Cherokee Kia Sorento Mazda CX-70 Nissan Murano Subaru Outback Tesla Y Toyota Highlander Toyota Crown Signia VW Atlas Sport I explained before that I think Ford decided to cancel Edge because it didn't want to retool Oakville for CD6 or C2 production. But Oakville has basically been unproductive for 3+ years... it just seems crazy to idle a plant like that and walk away from one of your solid sellers because your CEO won't acknowledge reality.

MFT was a disaster..." hold my Beer "said the Backup Camera recall fiasco....

I got the mailing that the Integrated Park Module needed a recall due to a software update to ensure that the parking pawl engages properly. (recall #25C69 / NHTSA 25V863) spoke to a service advisor and he tells me about mobile service being available. Appointment scheduled for this AM at 9:00 o'clock. The tech promptly arrives, I had previously positioned my Maverick in the driveway so they could get to it easily, and begins...20 minutes later, he informs me that the software update is completed and away he goes. It does not get any easier than that....other than an OTA update but I think this one was a little more detailed hence the mobile service. I am 100% satisfied. Its a nice day for a trip to the car wash after our Costco run....

Just bought daughter a 2026 Rav4 hybrid and it takes 0W-8 engine oil. I have never heard of anything less than 0w-20. I know it's for fuel economy but this seems one step away from water. Anything else use super thin oil?

So chopped a ton of parts (and therefore cost) out of it, and then made it an option/started charging for it on top of that.

Guys, I have an amazing update! I tagged Ford and their executives on X, and the official Ford Motor Company account actually replied! They said: "Innovation and performance are at the heart of our future. We appreciate the detailed feedback on what you’d like to see in a new Focus." The fact that they specifically highlighted "Performance" and acknowledged the "detailed feedback" is a massive sign. It shows they are actually listening to the demand for a sleek, fastback Focus ST/replacement rather than just another boxy SUV. What does everyone think? Does this give you more hope for the 2027 Valencia model?

I’m not sure what you are trying to insinuate, but I don’t like people to speak for me, so unless I missed something in another thread, this is actually what I said: “Sorry, throwing some 24’s, a new grill, and interior on the Expedition isn’t going to move the needle in this segment. Im a firm believer that all sheet metal has to change to get people’s attention. This situation strikes me as the potential for another Fusion moment as others have mentioned. Hopefully these are just test models, and are not indicative of what is to come. It’s a failure with me, a potential buyer who buys two new vehicles approximately every three years. I will not consider it if it does not look completely new. We will be way past the mid cycle refresh date at that point. 
 Will they sell them, of course, but I don’t believe they will challenge the market leader. They won’t continue to build off the successful relaunch of the Expedition, IMO. If they are content with the status quo sales wise, I suppose you could say that is a success for them. Im just not sure why you want to follow the likes of the Armada/QX market participants instead of the market leaders. 
 If I recall correctly, you and I have debated this subject matter as related to the Fusion, so it is likely we will have to agree to disagree on this subject. It’s hard to feel optimistic about the 2025 Expedition and perhaps the Navigator. The fact that this is referred to as a refresh in this article is disturbing, however not terribly surprising considering it’s pretty evident that there’s a lot of carryover sheet-metal, in particular on the sides of the vehicle. I want to give it the benefit of the doubt, but a heavily revised interior would not be sufficient to get me to buy a new Expy, when it originally debuted in 2018. It would have to be joined by substantial exterior changes.” You can interpret that as me saying it would be a flop if you want, but that isn’t what I said. I do want Ford to succeed, including the Expedition, but Im also not an apologist that accepts everything they do as gold. I would be shocked if you had nothing to say if Porsche detuned your Boxter prior to your purchase and didn’t advise you as such. I’m just trying to figure out what’s going on at this point. Perhaps this power change started after my build date. I don’t think it’s too much to ask to want to know what you purchased.

Say what?

Remember the Lightning was introduced in 2021 meaning it was developed in 2020 or earlier. Think bad to the EV frenzy of several years back where every OEM was trying to be the next Tesla. Getting your EV out first was essential, if you wanted to impress Wall Street. So decisions were made. It's easy to play a Monday Morning Quarterback now that several years have gone by.

Yea, exactly. Ford made many mistakes in which we learned nothing throughout its history. The success (or lack thereof) of CE1, Universal Electric Platform, and Universal Electric Production system will be an epochal moment for the company. I’m cautiously optimistic that it will be a success

Ah but see, this is also a sizeable bet, Ford already has $5 billion invested in CE1 and setting up Louisville. So let’s say the process does indeed yield a $40,000 vehicle with a healthy profit margin, that’s half the job. The other half of the job is building the size and styling of vehicles that appeal to enough buyers to give it a go. Then there’s another piece to the puzzle that has been alluding Ford…..how many buyers actually want a BEV? Im not knocking the project, it’s just that this is now Ford’s fourth go at developing an affordable Electric vehicle and some level of skepticism is to be expected, especially when every other time Ford was convinced that the vehicle would succeed until it was realised that it wouldn’t…

Henry Ford had a famous saying about mistakes: Seems like Ford did learn and it resulted in the genesis ce1. Lets hope it is successful.

Yea, exactly. I never thought of my 2022 F-150 Lightning as a "stopgap", just a great pickup truck - the best F-150 I've ever had among the several that I bought over the past 30 years. Hopefully the lessons Ford learns with Universal Electric Vehicle Platform and Universal Electric Vehicle Production system will be applied to future F-150 Lightnings and get costs under control.

Escape just isn't competitive on styling and probably features with all of the decontenting. She just didn't like it.

I'm talking about a Mach-E GT type EVs with dual or triple high performance motors and batteries with performance suspensions and brakes. You'll see cheaper lighter single motor EVs with more range that still have great acceleration but not ludicrous speed. While there is a market for that it's pretty small and there isn't much profit there due to the high costs. OTOH a performance mustang based sedan and suv can use off the shelf powertrains and suspensions and other parts and still make money at lower volumes and keep the Mustang coupe and the sub brand alive.

In my defense your honor I put forth exhibit 1 - Ford's lack of a RAV4 hybrid competitor...........

What we have here, Gentleman, is a complete failure in parenting. Let us all learn from this heart wrenching calamity and not let our sons and daughters go down this wicked path.

Covid/chip shortage caused most of the price increases. And even though it was developed as a stopgap there are no real compromises with the vehicle. Two of my neighbors have them and absolutely love them. They are real F150s with a different powertrain.

Turned out to be an Edsel moment. My cynicism aside, I think the thing driving Ford during the Covid period was being the first on the block with a BEV, and why not electrify the number one vehicle in the US, and build plants to be all BEV all the time? But they went at it using stale technology and the market pooped out before costs were amortized and the infrastructure half completed Meanwhile, the Chinese advanced the technology with components that they fabricate in country, leaving Ford and GM starved for chips and rare earths. I think they still have a 10-day sales mindset to a degree. Hopefully, the UEV genus will be the reset that Ford needs.

The mistake was charging a hefty premium for a stopgap vehicle.

Well there is only one in North America and Australia so that's not difficult. But Focus in Europe and Mondeo in China are absolutely boring.

Rivian has used LFP on the R1 and will use it for the entry-level R2 and R3 AFAIK LG makes its current NMC Cells

This carnage across multiple OEMs is an epic example of what happens when government and politics dictate what OEMs should build and what consumers should buy. Most likely nothing will be learned from it and endless examples will unfold in the future.

Ford’s Electric Explorer Fixes Two Of Its Biggest Early Weaknesses

I believe it. Toyota has been tweaking the same basic platforms and powertrains for decades while Ford had multiple new platforms and powertrains and lower volume. Hopeful that C3 will fix a lot of that.

Mfr direct sales only works at smaller volumes. The cost of opening stores in every community is too high -too much overhead. There are only 7 tesla stores in Georgia and they're all in Atlanta. What is screwing up the system are those stupid state franchise laws that prevent the mfr from controlling how their products are sold.

They are commodities and not only was Escape too expensive they totally blew the styling. As much as I hate to admit it, daughter's Rav4 is a far better vehicle and has a low cost platform. Ford really had to start over so cancelling Edge and Escape might end up being a great move if we get better replacements.

My 20 year-old son drives a Milan, and has no desire to have an SUV. He would like to have a Fusion.

https://www.fromtheroad.ford.com/us/en/articles/2026/2027-super-duty-answers-customer-requests

12 minutes in cold temps is still too long.

I'm and old guy but value your perspective as a younger guy. Glad you're here.

CE1 Pickup Raptor? 😛

Escape yes but not Edge. Starting in 2011 with the Sport model with the 3.7L v6 and later the ST model with the 2.7L ecoboost it did appeal to enthusiasts and owners were passionate. Not all of them but quite a few. What was missing was a hybrid option. Had they done a c2 hybrid edge and Nautilus in 2019 and kept a performance option of some kind I don't think it would have been killed. Likewise I think a rwd mustang suv will be a hit albeit at lower volumes.

Or maybe because it's missing the engine?

Sound like it's up to the gummint.....