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We’re not suffering we’re perfectly happy. And really good sports cars are not cheaper.

I don’t think they’re cross shopped at all and the sales statistics are just an interesting anecdote that means very little.

Based on your description of the survey, maybe those plans became the Mach E Ralle? Who'd have thought they'd put Porsche branding on a Porsche? Having a brand design language isn't the same as naming everything "911 _____" I like that concept - never seen it before (I'm guessing it's just a rendering). Funny, I've drawn something very similar to it in the past...

Exterior is a massive improvement. That was my biggest problem with it and the Model 3, they looked like drunk frogs from the front

Detroit Auto Show is starting. They just announced the winners of the North America car/truck/utility of the year. The Ranger won truck of the year (beat out Ram and Toyota). https://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/detroit-auto-show/2025/01/10/winners-2025-north-american-car-truck-utility-of-the-year/77589572007/

Hogwash. Interest rates were low before the pandemic. Prices were raised because shipping and manufacturing slowdowns limited production which naturally raised prices due to high demand and low supply. Rising fuel prices thanks to Biden drove inflation even higher for everything. Interest rates were raised to stave off inflation.

Proof that they raised prices to pay for electrification on or is just conjecture? I think they raised process because they could when cars were scarce post covid. Then inflation reared its ugly head and that raised them again. Now the trick is getting the the genie price back in the bottle and still make money. I think the 10% margin wish may just be that for awhile, a wish.

Bias doesn’t necessarily mean unfair. Turbos do fail and can be slightly expensive to fix, but it’s no worse than the water pump failures on the transverse cyclone V6s. Ford offered the 3.3Lv6 on F150 and nobody bought them outside fleets. Most opted for ecoboosts over the coyote v8. When Ford still offered the 3.5 v6 and 2.0eb in the Edge the ecoboost was 3-4 mpg better with the same performance and better low end torque. Same difference for the Mustang with the 3.7 vs 2.3eb. Those are objective benefits. Don’t confuse people who just want the cheapest option with people who want simplicity. Most of those buyers would buy an ecoboost if it was cheaper.

Yea, same here. I went to the IMSA BOTB event at Indianapolis Motor Speedway last September and it seemed to me the GTD and GTD Pro class cars got more attention from fans during the fan walk than the GTP and LMP2 class cars

I think they already fixed it for the 2025 models. And they should provide them for free.

Yea, yesterday Ford announced Mustang EcoBoost RTR, tuned by Vaugh Gittin Jr's company. Ford didn't mention pricing or specs yet, but if this package is between $5k and $10k, it could be the ultimate value buy for Mustang

Nice, Ford won the truck award in 2024 (Super Duty), 2023 (F-150 Lightning), 2022 (Maverick), and 2021 (F-150) too

Frankly, I don't understand the jacked up sports car trend like the Lamborghini or Porsche, and by extension, the talk of such a Mustang model.

exactly.....heres another parameter thats always missing from the conversation...how much did Ford lose per "E"....................the business model is NOT sustainable in my opinion, and the Headlines that paint the picture Electrics are doing well are like a Porn movie being edited to be PG13....theres a LOT left out of the full picture...

Rav4 and CR-V are the new accord and Camry so no surprise there,

Farley made it clear that Mustang is competing as a global sports car not just an American pony car. Sales don’t matter too much because it’s a Ford icon. V6s used to fill in the big performance gap between 4 and 8 cylinder engines. The 2.3eb IS the 6 cylinder of old. In fact it has more power than the old 4.6l v8 cobra mustang engine. A naturally aspirated I6 wouldn’t move the needle and a turbo I6 would be redundant with the coyote. It’s the answer to a question nobody is asking.

If I remember correctly, the people who attended a recent dealer meeting where the RTR Ecoboost was first shown said it was targeting a sub 40k price point. If that turns out to be true, it'll be pretty solid value for sure.

Really. The Stellantis "big shots" idea of understanding the market is to pipe in fake V8 engine sounds. You can't buy a hemi in the Charger anymore, but you can pretend you have one.

Hah..I guess so. Seems simple doesn't it? What should be a relatively easy addition to the spec list is ignored and that addition would open up another market. I will spare you all the reasons why it makes sense..you have heard it before....so just humor me. Standing on that "hill" was what I was known for in my 44 yr career. Did I get a bloody nose every now and then?...yep!😎 But better than folding your tent when you know you are making sense. PS At least I'm not saying Ford should be back in class 8!

Now we know why they discontinued the ecoboost performance pack.

They also had to buy credits from Tesla to offset things. They might be able to do it in a very limited fashion, but I wouldn't count on it.

I sent a screenshot of the RTR to my son, and he loved it. It must mean I’m old, lol. Since this is going to be an eco-boost only package, I anticipate it’s aimed at the younger generation and will hopefully be reasonably affordable. The younger generation is also more acceptable of the four-cylinder, so it gives them something Interesting to aspire to.

Nah it looks like it just came out a couple days ago going by this: https://www.rtrvehicles.com/blogs/news/rtr-announces-ford-factory-built-mustang-rtr Its dated January 9th of this year. The other thought I had about this, is RTR started almost 20 years ago and kids/teenagers back then are now old enough to maybe start thinking about getting a Mustang? Its sorta like Shelby making a comeback with the Mustang in 2005...I knew what Shelby did in the late 1960s with the Mustang in the mid 1980s (plus he was working with Dodge at the time) when I was a teenager, so its targeting people who hear/know of a "legend" and want to buy something that is associated with it? The Shelby name doesn't resonate as much with younger people, I'm also guessing. Not to mention the people who would know of Shelby during his hey day might not be able to fit into a Mustang easily as they once did to, because of age lol

Miata is a two seater and way too small for Mustang. Back seat for kids or groceries and decent interior room are big selling points.

Nice front end. Much better than the older one.

It’s not a recall because it’s only a capability issue, not a safety issue. I think they probably ought to do something about it as a goodwill gesture, but it’s not really their responsibility to address a capability that the stock truck was not designed to have.

Look forward to see where this standoff ends. Article makes it seem as if Daimler is holding firm based on principle. I’ve always wondered what would happen if all manufacturers refused to sell vehicles in California and other states that follow them. I expect they would eventually have to back down. Doubt manufacturers would stick together anyway so unlikely to escalate to that level. Perhaps had manufacturers pushed back harder against California, maybe other states would have not joined them? If Daimler and others were going to resist, I suppose timing now is about as good as it will likely get.

Start with new struts.

the 7500 went awayu but was there initially at least to boost sales...now its gone Ford has countered that with an $8750 rebate and a skimpy 0.05 lease rate ( lease IMO is the ONLY option on the car ).....or 3500 with 0 percent on a purchase ( DONT do it )....the good old ICE has a lousy lease and 5.9 for 60.....kinda underlines that the E require incentives to move.....

Here’s what the data showed from January 2017 to present and I’ve included the two government stimulus packages for reference. I don’t think your position is supported by this info: Base price of an F150 beginning in 2017: $27,110, 27,705, 28,155, 28,745, 26,882, 31,520, 34,585, 36,570 Interest rates on 60-month new car loans in the United States from February 2017 to November 2024: 4.35%, 4.51%, 4.77%, 4.56%, 4.19%, 3.94%, 6.18%, 7.75%, Nov. Nov 2024 7.57% The Coronavirus Aid, Relief, and Economic Security Act,[b][1] also known as the CARES Act,[2] is a $2.2 trillion economic stimulus bill passed by the 116th U.S. Congress and signed into law by President Donald Trump on March 27, 2020. American Rescue Plan Act of 2021, also called the COVID-19 Stimulus Package or American Rescue Plan, is a US$1.9 trillioneconomic stimulus bill passed by the 117th United States Congress and signed into law by President Joe Biden on March 11, 2021

Maybe Ol' Henry was too empathetic during the era of Ford Sociological Department at his company Henry Ford wanted his workers to be model Americans, and to ensure that, he created a division within the Ford Motor Company to keep everyone in line. It was known as the Ford Sociological Department (or the Sociology Department, or the Society Department, really, depending on who you ask. But you get the idea.). What started out as a team of 50 “Investigators” eventually morphed into a team of 200 people who probed every aspect of their employees lives. And I mean every aspect. Investigators would show up unannounced at your home, just to make sure it was being kept clean. They’d ask questions that were less appropriate of a car company, than they were for the modern-day CIA. They’d query you about your spending habits, your alcohol consumption, even your marital relationships. They’d ask what you were buying, and they’d check on your children to make sure they were in school. If you didn’t live up to the standards of Henry Ford and his Investigators, you were doomed. If you didn’t toe the line, you were initially blacklisted, and your prospects for promotion and advancement would vanish. Then you’d see your pay cut back to $2.34. If you still didn’t get the message of “speak English, get married, and be a good little American,” after six months, you’d be fired.

To be fair, Ford was offering 0% financing plus $5000 on Mach-E’s to clear out inventory/increase sales. If those incentives were applied to the ICE Mustang, sales would certainly increase. In addition, costumers who lease the Mach-E can take advantage of the $7500 “discount” (leasing tax credit loophole).

All depends on what you consider affordable-there is lots of sticker shock when it comes to looking at new vehicles or other products, but people are still buying them and bitching about it, but I'm also assuming that if your still working, you should have gotten raises or Cost of living increases at the job you work at also.

Let me explain, The original survey involved basically a jacked ICE Coupe that didn’t go well with feedback. After that, Ford started asking how about a modified Mach E, that’s when the changed reception happened. As you both have pointed out, there’s a vast difference in perceptions and opinions between ICE Mustang buyers and BEV Mustang buyers. The big question I have is now that GE and GE2 are becoming “dead end” electric platforms, switching Mach E and any variant to CE1 would seem a better result. I think you can work out what’s happening here with priorities… Since Farley started talking about CE1 vehicles, any talk of details about that jacked up Mustang stopped…….. Maybe RS Mach E thing was all Ford was prepared to do for now…

Focus groups and market research are only good for mass market models. A Dakar Mustang only needs to appeal to a few thousand people to be successful.

That V8 is more than just a "soundtrack".

Oh boy, where to start. The latest 2.3 is a result of combustion studies that Ford was doing in the 20 teens when it discovered that going back to smaller bore longer stroke gave a better emissions profile, especially with the dual injection set up. Back then, the aim was indeed to develop a common cylinder bore, stroke and cylinder head arrangement to cover multiple engines. Thing was, that Ford scrapped all those plans and just went with the 2.3 because there was no funding to do any other engines. So what you see is the result of an orphan project, the update to the 2.0 got some changes but they kept the bore and stroke as is. Yes, Ford could do an inline modular family, the bones are ther for I-4, I-5 and I-6. I thought, finally, Ford is going to downsize engine plants ahead of BEVs but then those ideas went up in smoke. All because Ford thought electrification was happening faster than expected

The new Civic is the size of the old Accord. Accord is bordering on full size now.

Many of these Japanese and Korean cars at dealers in my area are closer to $30k, particularly Honda Civic. Basic Nissan Versa with steel wheels and 5-speed manual start at $17,190 MSRP. That’s a different level of affordability. 😀

Pony cars were big in the mid to late 60's, and now they are a niche. I was a teenager in the 70's and remember when personal luxury coupes were hot, and Oldsmobile sold 1 million cars per year with its biggest seller being the Cutlass Supreme. Now I can't think of a single personal luxury coupe being built, except maybe some high end Mercedes or BMW. I don't see coupes coming back at all. I think sedans will diminish, with Camry, Corolla, Accord, and Civic being the only mainstream survivors (I'll skip the luxury market), and I think SUV's and pickups will dominate the market the remainder of my life.

I think it might be a better fit if they ever came out with a Mustang Sedan-hopefully it would make having AWD easier, since the motors would be in the front wheels. I don't think a hybrid Mustang would appeal to people who are looking as it as a performance option-Ford will add it when they are forced to.

As a poster much smarter than I am said on another thread, Ford is probably content with the number of Mustangs it is now selling because of CAFE. Mustang is probably still only in production because it is such an iconic car for Ford, much more than the recently discontinued Camaro was for GM.

As did Maverick and Transit. What’s the point of comparison, solely because they share Mustang name? IMO it is nothing more than a biased EV site trying to highlight EV success, though both vehicles are completely different. EV and Mach-E success is great, but direct sales comparison seems foolish to me.

According to this article, Ford doesn’t think pricing is an issue. https://www.motor1.com/news/747170/ford-mustang-priced-right-despite-low-sales/ I would beg to differ. Any article about low mustang sales is filled with comments about its price. Sharing a platform with another vehicle could help lower the price. A Lincoln or thunderbird could be options. An alternative could be something like the Toyota Supra/bmw z4 deal. Wouldn’t a Camaro/mustang deal be crazy?

Cylinder count is still a thing. The 2.3L EcoBoost I-Four in my Ranger has more horsepower per liter than any other vehicle I've ever owned, but it ain't got enough bores. I think the way to go until we Boomers fully age out of the new vehicle market is to develop a simple pushrod V8, maybe with a 60º Vee for Rangers, Explorer and the Bronco & BSport. I would think/hope that any EPA penalty could be absorbed if the design was simple enough. Gasoline Direct Injection, variable valve timing and higher compression make up much of the performance of today's ICE engines, super-and turbocharging make up the rest. Gimmie Farley's bonus and I'll come up with a 3L± normally aspirated V8 w/ 2valves per cylinder GDI, VVT, 275+ horsepower. Fart can this.

ok...question...who designs a truck...and TWO years later basically forces owners to BUY brackets to re-inforce the bed if they expect to add a rack, or Camper shell ( over cabin tent ) or anthing that weighs more than 88 pounds ( yes 88 pounds ) or greater on the bedrails....????????????????? Built Ford Tough?...and then making customers pay for the brackets AND the install????????????? ....sigh. Sorry to vent...but heck...

What's old is new again. We saw the rise of the SUV, then the crossover, combining the SUV body style with a car like chassis. Now we're seeing crossovers that are basically just slightly lifted hatches. With EVs needing to rely heavily on areo, that's pushing them lower, and lower to the ground, and that trend seems like it's going to keep going. At some point, we're just gonna get back to cars, but them being called SUVs in order to sell. I understand where you're coming from, but from where I'm looking at it, we've almost come full circle. We aren't there yet, but it's looking more and more likely. Wagons used to be seen as boring, SUVs were the hot thing in the market. Now my generation is dreaming of owning wagons, begging more brands to bring them here, and SUVs are seen as generic, and undesirable by many in my age group. A lot of the time it seems like it's whatever your parents drove, you want something different. People who grew up in the back of wagons wanted vans, people who grew up in the back of vans wanted SUVs, now you're seeing a lot of people who grew up with suvs and want something different.

Latest fill up was at $2.39 per gallon for regular in Childress, Texas. Was surprised to find gas that cheap in a small town. Passing back through Dallas / Ft Worth area gas was about 10 cents more expensive. Back in Houston $2.39 was common.

Actual buyers don’t have a problem with small turbo engines - almost every mfr including Mercedes and other luxury brands have a 2.0L turbo engine. Your obsession with value and efficiency is a minority view and you just make stuff up that suits your views. You also give far too much credit to the average car buyer who usually doesn’t even know what type or size engine they have.