Leaderboard

Every decision Ford has made about this gen Escape has turned out to be questionable at best and downright baffling for the most part. It's really crazy how much they got wrong compare to RAV4 or CR-V. From the beginning they made the car too small and saddled it with a cheap interior. All the way to the end axing the car, which is in the biggest selling volume segment, without a proper replacement.

Here are Ford's sales good to great numbers.....here are Ford's Q2 results https://s205.q4cdn.com/882619693/files/doc_news/2025/Jul/01/Ford-U-S-Q2-2025-Sales-Release.pdf And here are June monthly sales:

Thanks my friend rmc523, you're a master of the quarterly sales spreadsheets! 😊 Like you said the numbers are mostly good to great. The 31% decline in EV sales in Q2 is a sore spot though. GM sold more Chevy Equinox EV in Q2 than Ford's entire EV lineup. New products from Ford's low cost EV platform can't come soon enough

Sure, but his point is not all recalls are the same. Similar to on those quality reports - someone not knowing how to program their bluetooth is different than the screen went blank and a wheel fell off.

I have a truck sales comparison coming, but I'm waiting on some more reporting.

So I revamped my charts and I put together a look at the entire truck market for all of the competitors in each segment (I didn't do ICE vans, though) - enjoy...... Also, Tesla and Rivian haven't reported any figures yet, but I'm not going to wait on them, as they're weird in their reporting anyway. Please note, it's been a lot of work to create this new setup when I've have time, so there may be some errors - let me know if you see any....thanks!

Ford's in a flux state as is the EV market in general. The recent story about customers "not caring about engines" and the Navigator coming 3rd-of-3 when compared against its domestic competitors are subjects to muddy the optics. The low cost EVs, plus real showings of direction heading forward can't come soon enough...and, I hope the R&D for ICE engines gets some re-prioritization as the world seems to be reconsidering the overly-aggressive shift to EVs.

I think it's perhaps because Expedition is on par with its competition feature wise (Tahoe/Suburban, Yukon, Armada etc), whereas Navigator's competition (primarily Escalade, but also the QX80, Wagoneer or even the German models like X7, GLS, etc) have tech steps above what Navigator offers, and Ford has refused to put some of those options in there that certain competitors have had for years now, and until Navigator equals or exceeds such features, it'll get criticized... I view some of these things through a "competition" prism, as in if competition has it, but Ford's offering doesn't, it's only asking for people to go to the competitor.

Somehow better than Toyota still.

Ford EV Battery Plant Does Not Use Raw Materials From China “You’ll often hear people say, ‘Well, China holds 90 percent of the raw materials, or you can’t build LFP without Chinese materials,'” Lisa Drake, Vice President, Technology Platform Programs and EV Systems at Ford, told InsideEVs in a recent inverview. “I’m here to tell you that that’s not true, that you can build LFP without Chinese critical minerals. It’s very, very difficult to do, but our supply chain team at Ford went and did it.” Those LFP batteries use a Ford-specific design, but the automaker is licensing a few things from CATL – including the manufacturing process, battery chemistry, and product design. Some employees from CATL will also travel to the BlueOval Battery Park Michigan site to train American workers on how to use the equipment at the plant and assemble the battery packs, which will be used in a variety of future low-cost electric vehicles.

True. I think Ford should have kept the Escape more SUV-like (sort of like a junior Explorer) and just made a separate lower-priced more car-like crossover model like a Corolla Cross or Trax. Ford made the Escape more car-like which it seems is not what the buyers in the segment wanted.

2018 was a huge step up, but they didnt capitalize on its success. Its easy for gm to throw the kitchen sink at the escalade, it makes them way too much money. But for jeep to come out with a whole new luxurious and tech forward product with no previous base and as a 3 yr old platform still beat what lincoln claims is a new model is embarrassing for them. Who did they benchmark and how did that translate to dev? By no means is the new navigator a bad truck, but compared to its contemporaries, they dropped the ball heavily. The expy feels like a better product because it feels more competitive to its competitors at a cheaper price.

Not hard to sell a bunch of EVs at $33K, but I seriously doubt they’re turning a profit at those prices.

That horrible outdated uncompetitive Navigator up 115%…..

Tesla also has that solar aspect to it, though who knows if that makes any money. Especially with nothing but endless vaporware on the horizon for years on end....."it's coming just wait!!!!"

I'm hoping this endeavor proves to be very impressive, despite my admitted apathy towards the EV market. In a few different social media markets, there's full-on resentment towards Ford for handing over the "starter cars" market (Fiesta, Focus) so completely. While Honda, Toyota, and the Koreans seemingly will keep making the introductory-level vehicles for those markets, the determination of Ford to desert those buyers has ongoing negativity towards the brand. With the almost-invisible Escape on its last legs (tires?), and the Maverick seemingly dangling as Ford's only low cost offering for the immediate future, the optics are frankly both elitist (good luck finding new Fords under $35k) and delusional (FORD RECALLS ANOTHER MILLION VEHICLES...). This rough patch isn't fun to witness.

The expy is getting the reviews it is because for Ford , this is very good execution. When it comes to Lincoln there is so much more expectation. As well the Navi is always in heavy competition from Escalade, and Cadillac alway insures its flagship are flagships. Lincoln just tries to make it good enough.

He was talking about warranty numbers and the VDS, where Ford has improved vs last year. The IQS numbers really aren’t relevant to what he was discussing unless they show up in the warranty numbers, which, apparently, they’re not. If people are bitching to high heaven about having to use a touchscreen to change the temperature or the radio station, that’s something that could be reflected in the IQS but not in the warranty numbers. Likewise with customer complaints about things where they just don’t know how to use a feature or it doesn’t work the way they expect—things that the dealer can head off before it becomes a warranty claim.

agree. It has been the case for years for the Navi, it looses in tech and other features that the competition have had for years now. There isn't even much coherence in the lineup, the Aviator has for example soft close door and air suspension, but the Navi doesn't. I still cannot understand the reason behind not having air suspension in the Navi while all the competitors have it. And from the reviews, it seems the interior materials aren't as good as before

Exactly. Typical Ford...

Didn't even notice that! Amazing that when Toyota has to replace several vehicles for the first time in 15 years (namely Tundra, Tacoma, Sequoia, 4-Runner, Land Cruiser), quality would go down.

What's the point? I'm all for tech, but unless you are regularly carrying a load blocking that view, it's just something to add cost and potential problems. I love all things tech, but seriously, a digital rearview mirror when you can see out the back window 99.9% of the time is just pointless. Now, I do like the digital rearview that you can get on the GM trucks when towing a trailer. That is a useful tech and not just using technology just because you can.

Counterintuitively, that might actually be true. Looking at the recalls, many of them are preemptive recalls over issues that Ford found, not issues that customers have reported, and they’re just issuing recalls in case some customer vehicles are affected. F’rinstance, there are 7 open recalls on the 2025 F-150, and for six of them, “Ford is not aware of any warranty claims, field or customer reports associated with [this issue].” (Heck, one is over a missing airbag sticker, which obviously makes the vehicle unsafe to drive.) The seventh was discovered by a service tech in a pre-delivery inspection, so even it didn’t make it to an actual customer. That’s not to say that they’re not bad—the Bronco has a “do not drive” warning on two of its recalls because of improperly installed bolts in the front suspension—but at least they’re catching and fixing most of the issues before they affect customers.

I read this review a couple days ago. I didn’t think it was unreasonable and I agree with some of their gripes. I recognize that most headlights are automatic nowadays, but was it really necessary to move the headlight controls to the screen. I thought it was a ridiculous change. I do like the color of that ride though.

Help me understand this-I've owned a 2017 Escape, been in 2024 Escape and own a Bronco Sport-how is the interior too small? The 2017 had issues with the dash vs the previous generation, but the 2020+ Escape was a huge improvement with that and the Bronco Sport is pretty similar So how is the Escape too small, yet the BS isn't, but the driving position/space is freaking identical?

Probably true as only trim is falling off an NOT the doors😎

Yea, that is something any employee, investor, customer, or supplier of Ford should take into account even though Ford's low cost EV platform does appear to be a very promising one. The disconnect right now between what the big shots say and actual products and processes is frustrating. I hope something more tangible is revealed before the year is out

I'll believe it when I see it. They've been hyping this all up for years now - perhaps even over hyping it at this point (though the general public likely doesn't even know anything about them). They hyped up the new large three row EVs for years until they abruptly canceled them. Until we see products debuting and/or on the way to showrooms, I'm skeptical, as we've seen Ford pivot on a dime and cancel things out of nowhere.

Yea, more often than not when Ford's head honcho (whoever it is) comes up with a "better idea", it results in nothing or close to nothing. It's due to Ford's tradition of not invented here syndrome: “Not Invented Here Syndrome” (NIH Syndrome) is a term used in business and technology fields to describe a persistent organizational culture that rejects new ideas or innovations from external sources, preferring to develop everything in-house. This attitude typically stems from a belief that their own team’s capabilities, knowledge, and work are superior to others. This syndrome creates a barrier to implementing and adopting outside technologies or solutions, often leading to inefficiency and a lack of adaptation to new, potentially advantageous techniques or systems

I have one on my toolbox at work

Yea, you are giving Miss Drake too much credit. Until and unless more details about specific products based on Ford's low cost EV platform are available, the "solid plan" you referenced is nothin' more than huffin' and puffin' from a big shot at Ford.

And I thought "well these are mostly software issues". I guess this sets the record straight on that point. I wonder just what is the metric is that the board uses to set Mr. Farley's annual earnings???

I'd be interested to see comparisons from other outlets, and whether they reach the same conclusion. It does seem like Ford phoned it in in a few areas on the new Expy/Navi. The big question is whether or not they'll stretch this model another 6 years plus a refresh (which would mean the body overall is 12 years old), or if them taking a "heavy refresh" approach means we'll get a shorter lifecycle and a new, better replacement sooner. Given it's Ford, it'll probably be the former, and they'll wonder where customers went. That said, sales have been great so far, so actual customers are speaking with their wallets.......but I'd imagine some of it has been a combo of clearing out '24s plus sales of '25s.

Hi. Actual electrician here. This in no way stupid. The code exists for a reason, and believe me I’m a big less regulations are better kind of guy. Even if it’s a 30 amp charger there’s still a lot to consider when deciding on wire size and length, whether or not to you want to backfeed to the panel in the event of a power outage and in that case if you do a transfer switch will be required by the utility (and code, it’s treated similar to a generator). This is not something the average DIY hack should ever consider doing.

Won't be buying an Explorer or (I presume) Aviator now. a $60K+ vehicle and there is no sun/moon roof? Inexcusable. Having been raised in a Ford family my entire 35 year life, they just keep pushing me away from their current product. It's like this company is TRYING to go out of business...

As I said in the other thread, none of us are saying the new Navigator is terrible, just that Ford didn't push far enough. It's great that sales are their strongest in years, decades even, but it'll be interesting to see what happens as '24 inventory clears out, and whether it can maintain this pace.

Not bad, but how many hybrids did GM sell in the first half of the year?

I have a truck sales comparison coming, but I'm waiting on some more reporting (namely Stellantis.....I won't wait for Tesla/Rivian for it.

Some products and their buyers ain't worth keepin'. Ford did the right thing to desert those introductory-level vehicles, which couldn't compete with Honda, Toyota, and the Koreans and had a negative impact both on Ford's reputation and its financials. The new low cost EV platform gives Ford an opportunity to do introductory-level vehicles right, something I haven't seen in my lifetime. I hope the big shots at Ford make the most of this opportunity

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/01/29/business/tesla-earnings-elon-musk.html Tesla's full year profit was $7.1B, and down from $15B in 2023. But still more than the $2.76 of credit sales, so something is profitable at Tesla lol.

Whoops, I didn't read closely enough - I missed that his statement was regarding VDS, not IQS. Disregard my above comments lol. Let's hope that things continue to improve, and hope that the recall situation resolves itself soon, because even if they're minor issues and/or it's Ford being proactive rather than reactive, it's not a good look, and an easy target for a media that loves a punching bag. We all know how people love to read incendiary headlines these days too and media does it for clicks/ad revenue.

2026 Ford Explorer Replaces Vista Roof With Fixed Glass Option Apparently they're ditching the openable sunroof with just a fixed glass panel. Less complex/things to break I guess, But I like opening it up.

Yea, Ford took a car-like anonymous blob unibody crossover that's too small inside and made it even more anonymous, more car-like, more el-cheapo inside and out, and still too small inside. As you mentioned, buyers in the segment aren't impressed.

When Ford & Lincoln released design sketches alongside the debut of the refreshed models, I noticed that the artists went beyond and revamped the whole bodies. The Expedition sketch has a half C-pillar and a more dimensional side profile. The Navigator is noticeably sleeker. Likely those were artistic liberties, but I’d love to see Ford push the SUVs further visually along with powertrain and suspension updates next go around.

Hypothetically speaking, if Ford did use this platform to bring sedans back to the market, how likely is it that it would be something in a similar style to one of these? They start are around 29k, it's arguably Farley's favorite EV seeing as he drove one for over 6 months and couldn't stop talking about it, and it would mean offering a more compelling aspirational sedan instead of a generic blob.

Putting 8 different bodies on top of a shared chassis? Stop the presses! Why didn't someone think of this idea before? Some of these publications are really grasping at the straws 😄

Your statement says to me, too many layers in the chain of command..and perhaps that goes back to something we seem to have read about- each layer of authority is just another choke point before an issue is finally addressed.

No surprise to me. From working at a supplier of production equipment to Ford and the others for over 25 years, Ford was the slowest to pay invoices, the most demanding of immediate attention, and the hardest to work with, especially when it came to doing equipment service in their facilities. Service that would take a day or two in other facilities would take a week in a Ford facility due to total lack of coordination and cooperation on their part.