2005Explorer Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 The only Ford model that sort of hung in there is the Fusion. This is why I am very optimistic at how the 2010 Fusion is going to do. The model is on the verge of a redesign and in these terrible economic conditions was only down by 11%. It also appears in these bad times more people are choosing a sensible mid-sized family sedan like the Fusion. Back to the basics I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one2gamble Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 ...fleet ONLY buy cheap, Flex is out of their league....the benefit of keeping production numbers in check... Fleets, maybe but I can get a rental Flex here in Arkansas. That said, these numbers are horrid across the entire industry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patate Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Even with that piece of info, I still think quite a few of those numbers are fleet sales (due to the vehicles in question, or at least the Impala). The impala isn't as much of a fleet queen than some other GM cars, like the G6. It's down around 83% Even if i've been pretty optimistic about the D3 lately, today's numbers just hurt. The constant bad news about the American automakers hurt their reputation. Could we be in the D3's last years? I hope not, but wow.... if only Honda and Toyota fell that much. I'd love to see Toyhonda retail vs D3 retail, as in the % decrease. GM and Chrysler has been a lot more fleet-oriented than the other automakers, this could inflate the numbers negatively, just like last year when gas prices went up, the imports won market share even though Ford and GM had a higher car sales increase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 The impala isn't as much of a fleet queen than some other GM cars, like the G6. It's down around 83% Really? I thought it was, my apologies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
630land Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 D3's main competitor, the Avalon, was way down too. Also, market for large cars will never be as it was in the past. Buyers under 50 prefer 'mid size', since large cars remind them of the old big cars. Even if they are good, the term large or full size is a turn off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extreme4x4 Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 The impala isn't as much of a fleet queen than some other GM cars, like the G6. It's down around 83% Even if i've been pretty optimistic about the D3 lately, today's numbers just hurt. The constant bad news about the American automakers hurt their reputation. Could we be in the D3's last years? I hope not, but wow.... if only Honda and Toyota fell that much. I'd love to see Toyhonda retail vs D3 retail, as in the % decrease. GM and Chrysler has been a lot more fleet-oriented than the other automakers, this could inflate the numbers negatively, just like last year when gas prices went up, the imports won market share even though Ford and GM had a higher car sales increase. If I remember correctly, Toyotas numbers have been significantly worse than Fords, for Nov and Dec (maybe October also, don't remember), and even Hondas numbers were worse than Fords in Dec. For the year, Toyotas sales were only a few percentage points of a drop, less than Fords. Honda did better, due to their lower percentage of "truck" sales. In other words, Toyotas sales, last year................ certainly were not something to write home about. Add to that, the strong yen, which killed their profitability................ and you have some upper officials in Japan very unhappy with Toyota, the poster child of Japan. Frankly, they do not like Honda nearly as much. Why, I don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 ...and you have some upper officials in Japan very unhappy with Toyota, the poster child of Japan. Frankly, they do not like Honda nearly as much. Why, I don't know. You've seen what's happened.....one year of non-profitability (in a horrible economy), and they kick their CEO (Wantanabe or however it's spelled) to the curb (well, not really, he still works with the company, but he was replaced as CEO by a Toyoda). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armadamaster Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 OK, I'll say it. D3 sedan sales (3,722) > Panther sales (2,881) I know that that's partly due to dealer availability, but still... :ninja: WOW....the year old (since last restyle) D3 sedans blew out the decade old fleet only Panthers by 841 units! :cheerleader: I just had to put that in perspective, I can't believe anyone actually attempted to bring that up in favor of the D3s period....especially for this month. Hell, the fleet only Panthers damn near beat out Volvo this month, eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armadamaster Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 (edited) Deleted by Armada Master Edited February 5, 2009 by Armada Master Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papilgee4evaeva Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 WOW....the year old (since last restyle) D3 sedans blew out the decade old fleet only Panthers by 841 units! :cheerleader: I just had to put that in perspective, I can't believe anyone actually attempted to bring that up in favor of the D3s period....especially for this month. Hell, the fleet only Panthers damn near beat out Volvo this month, eh? I knew you'd come out of the woodworks. :P I said what I had to say, and I'm gonna leave it there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 The impala isn't as much of a fleet queen than some other GM cars, like the G6. It's down around 83% could have fooled me, the fullsized market isn't that large, with the exception of the LX cars a couple years ago, Fullsized cars just don't sell as well as their midsized bethern do...I don't see many Impalas that aren't fleet cars, like DOD Police cars or even township/city PD cars. I think I've seen one Impala SS since its come out... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 An interesting note, is the G8 managed to sell 1,331 units - not bad for a niche product in hard times. GM has been advertising it and discounting it pretty heavily. There are some crazy incentives on the V6 version, at least here locally. Tundra: 7,076 And it continues to change it all....from the basement of the sales charts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 (edited) WOW....the year old (since last restyle) D3 sedans blew out the decade old fleet only Panthers by 841 units! :cheerleader: I just had to put that in perspective, I can't believe anyone actually attempted to bring that up in favor of the D3s period....especially for this month. Hell, the fleet only Panthers damn near beat out Volvo this month, eh? I see you bolded the only important part of your response. Edited February 4, 2009 by NickF1011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Jellymoulds Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 And it continues to change it all....from the basement of the sales charts. Toyota have blamed it on a worldwide shortage of Tundra camshafts, they have to many trucks not enough camshafts. It have must be the same supplier who caused the worldwide shortage of batteries in their Prius. Maybe they need to get rid of their "just in time" and purchase the wonderful user freindly SAP system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Reynolds Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Toyota have blamed it on a worldwide shortage of Tundra camshafts, they have to many trucks not enough camshafts. It have must be the same supplier who caused the worldwide shortage of batteries in their Prius. Maybe they need to get rid of their "just in time" and purchase the wonderful user freindly SAP system. They have? I was under the impression that San Antonio was closed because there was too much inventory, not a parts shortage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2005Explorer Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Toyota have blamed it on a worldwide shortage of Tundra camshafts, they have to many trucks not enough camshafts. It have must be the same supplier who caused the worldwide shortage of batteries in their Prius. Maybe they need to get rid of their "just in time" and purchase the wonderful user freindly SAP system. Toyota acts more like the old GM everyday. Blame everything else except your own product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packardbob Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Toyota acts more like the old GM everyday. Blame everything else except your own product. A good friend of mine said the exact same thing yesterday. He is a hardcore Honda man and loves most everything about the Japanese and even he can see it. I was quite shocked to learn that he hates Toyota and Subaru almost as much as I do. He hates Toyota because it's bigger than Honda, lol, but the Subaru thing is alot deeper, he bought an 09 Outback and it was a pile of crap, that didnt bother him as much as how bad he was treated by Subaru. I'm glad Toyota appears to be self destructing, there are alot of smug, self righteous people that I want to see eat their own words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papilgee4evaeva Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Toyota acts more like the old GM everyday. Blame everything else except your own product. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, I suppose. While the ones who do their own thing usually fare better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Hey!!! Town Car sales waaaaaaaay up! 147.6%!!!!! Whooooo Hoooooooo...go Panther, go Panther....it's your birthday!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Hey!!! Town Car sales waaaaaaaay up! 147.6%!!!!! Whooooo Hoooooooo...go Panther, go Panther....it's your birthday!!!! Compared to 12 months ago when they weren't even being built? Yay. Go Panther. :rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlhm5 Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 If only ~10 million vehicles are sold in 2009, it would completely undermine the restructuring plans Ford has in place. They are forecasting 11.5 million units for 2009 and there is no way that they are going to be able to cut costs fast enough. Here is the math: One million domestic car sales are worth about $25 billion in revenue. A drop of three million vehicles sold from 2008 to 2009 would pull nearly $75 billion out of the market. You tell me how any company can cut costs fast enough to make up for that kind of loss in revenue? At this point it would be almost impossible to argue that Detroit won't need ~$100 billion from the government to stay afloat. If they don't, the near term affect is, Detroit will go bankrupt and the layoffs from Detroit and the suppliers will negate the stimulus package under consideration in Washington. IMO, $100 billion is cheap money v. the possible outcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 (edited) Time to derail another thread. Seriously, mlhm5. You have no idea what Ford's restructuring plans really are. Until you do, you're just blowing hot air. Edited February 4, 2009 by NickF1011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlhm5 Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Time to derail another thread. Seriously, mlhm5. You have no idea what Ford's restructuring plans really are. Until you do, you're just blowing hot air. Ford is basing their year on a US market where they are forecasting about 1.5MM more cars and light trucks will be sold that most all of the analysts are forecasting. That is from Ford's own press releases. Take out $37.5 billion in revenue from new car sales in the US alone in 2009, and tell me how that won't seriously undermine Ford's current projections. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 (edited) Ford is basing their year on a US market where they are forecasting about 1.5MM more cars and light trucks will be sold that most all of the analysts are forecasting. That is from Ford's own press releases. Take out $37.5 billion in revenue from new car sales in the US alone in 2009, and tell me how that won't seriously undermine Ford's current projections. You have no idea how aggressive or conservative those estimates from Ford are, do you? No, you don't. How about how aggressive and conservative those estimates from those "analysts" are? No? You don't know that either? Okay then. Hot air. Face it. You simply want to be a negatard. And we all know how accurate your postulating has been in the past. Edited February 4, 2009 by NickF1011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 You have no idea how aggressive or conservative those estimates from Ford are, do you? No, you don't. How about how aggressive and conservative those estimates from those "analysts" are? No? You don't know that either? Okay then. Hot air. Face it. You simply want to be a negatard. ....I will be watching tentatively for derailment.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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