Mercury Dead, Lincoln Lineup to Expand

[rmc523]

The Escape is such a cheap and under performing vehicle for it's segment that an entirely new design is needed if you're going to make a Lincoln version which would compete in any way with what the others are offering. And I'm talking the platform, not the sheetmetal. THe Mariner is seriously as far as I can see that platform advancing. What else could Lincoln possibly add to that little thing to make it worth $40,000 or more? If this is going to be the new 'Shrek-mobile' they've been showing then all I have to say is "GOOD LUCK WITH THAT". The Edge has never been competitive and the X is a typical rebadge of a non-competitive vehicle. Sure, it's 4 years old now. New one due out and it's just a facelift, right? That's going nowhere fast. Transit Connect? Very limited market. New F-150? Very nice, but again, Nancy Pelosi will kill it if she can. Maybe we have a fundamental difference here in who the Lincoln target audience is? You say it's a different audience from Infiniti? I sortof agree, if only becasue Infiniti has actually built sport-luxury vehicles while Lincoln has only ever built one of those and they killed it with prejudice. So, if Lincoln is aiming at sport-luxury, they miss completely. Just luxury? OK, so who are it's competitors? I read within the last couple years that 'Lincoln no longer intends to compete with Cadillac. Rather, they are trying to build a better Buick.' I don't know if they're even doing that. WHO does Lincoln now compete with???

 

Nobody is arguing that the Escape needs to be redone both on the surface and underneath.  The new Escape/Lincoln version will be on a new platform shared across the globe.  And I'll agree with you on the concept-C - I don't like it either.

 

Edge never competitive? IIRC, it took over the top seller spot in it's segment a few short months after release and still is a top seller today 4 years later. Why are the Edge/MKX redesigns "going nowhere fast?" So 2 NEW/1 revised engines, improved fuel economy, remarkably improved interiors and improved exterior designs, tons of new technology NO COMPETITOR OFFERS, etc. and they're "non-competitive" and "going nowhere fast?" Ok....

 

As for the TC - of course it's market is limited - it's aimed at commercial buyers as a small, efficient work van alternative to the Econoline beast. I believe about 25,000 are being shipped here this year (it's first year). They're on pace to sell more than that with no advertisements, aimed solely at commercial/business owners.

 

F-150 will never go anywhere and if it does because of gov't regulation, they should all be kicked out of office. Besides, mules with the EB3.5 are reportedly getting pretty good (for a truck) fuel economy numbers.

 

I'd argue there's no one target brand Lincoln is aiming for, unlike GM with their "_____" fighter this "_____" fighter that. Lincoln's shooting after a host of competitors - Lexus, Buick, Infiniti, Cadillac, BMW, Mercedes, Audi, etc. - heck, any brand for that matter.

 

2 examples:

LR2 - same size , competitive this and that. But the LR2 will actually move thru snow, mud and sand.

GMC Acadia and equivs - same HP give or take, same mpg give or take but the GM boats seat 2 or 3 more people.

 

Since I think you're talking about Edge/MKX, I'm also puzzled as to why you mention the Escape/Mariner-sized LR2 (that is built by an OFF-ROAD BRAND with a dedicated terrain management system, which the new Explorer is getting) and the Flex/MKT-sized Acadia-and-friends. GMC Acadia fuel economy is 17/24 for a FWD model. The 2011 Edge with the 285-hp 3.5L V6 is rated at 18/27. Again that's the V6; that's not even the 2.0L EB-I4.

 

Just trying to find something similar to compare to. IMHO, it speaks volumes that the GM vehicles are a lot bigger, yet get the same mpg. That's important these days, eh?

 

As I pointed out above, GMC Acadia is rated 17/24 mpg. The 2011 Edge with the 285-hp 3.5L V6 is rated at 18/27 mpg - I don't know the 2.0L EB I4 numbers, but they'll be even better. By the way, the 2010 Edge is rated at 18 city/25 highway, which is already better than the Acadia. I'd hope a vehicle newly designed for 2009 would do better than a vehicle designed for 2007.

 

I dunno. Everybody in Canada?

 

Who makes a car-based CUV and adds AWD and touts it as good in snow etc?

 

Besides, that's not what I said.

 

OK, I gotta go. You guys just hang in and wait and soon, REAL SOON NOW, Lincoln will build an Acura NSX killer AND a deisel-powered 4x4 that can win the Baja. Seriously. I'm sure they can do it now that all that money they were spending on designing Mercury grilles is freed up. GOOD LUCK. I'll be at the Infiniti dealer. If my Lincolns ever give out.

 

Um.....first, there is no Acura NSX to kill and why does Lincoln need a diesel-powered 4X4 to with the Baja?

 

Enjoy your Infiniti - Ford/Lincoln doesn't need a buyer that isn't even looking at the facts.

Edited June 10, 2010 by rmc523

[jpd80]

Rebadged Euro-platforms have always done well in the American car market. Ahem...

 

BTW, how do you pronounce 'Kuga'? Is that a Cougar for the Boston market?

I said Ford Escape is moving to C1 platform with European Kuga, not as the Kuga......

 

Kuga is pronounced Ku-ga, it's pretty hard foul up a two syllable word.

 

 

Oh and Re, Euro Fords and success in the USA, get used to it - Fiesta, Focus and Mondeo/Fusion.

Edited June 10, 2010 by jpd80

[twintornados]

....Lincoln will build an Acura NSX killer....

Why should Lincoln build an Acura NSX killer when Honda/Acura already killed it??

[saintlaz1]

Why should Lincoln build an Acura NSX killer when Honda/Acura already killed it??

 

lol, the nsx was a nice car though

[silvrsvt]

lol, the nsx was a nice car though

 

it was nice, but having a V6 with less then 300 HP is less then inspiring for a Super car

 

 

 

[WC Man]

I personally like all the attention to "Providing Mercury customers with continued parts and service". That's mighty white of 'em, of course, outside of the grille, logos, and possibly wheels EVERY PART ON A MERCURY IS THE SAME AS A FREAKING FORD!!!!!!!!! They HAVE to produce 90% of the parts because they are on the SAME Ford models.

 

I wish I wish I wish I could believe all this crap. But it sounds all the world to me like they are planning on slapping Lincoln grilles on Mercury products already in the pipeline. I would love to see a Lexus fighter, or even a Acura fighter, hell, a Buick fighter might even be nice. But I just have a hard time believing it before I see it.

 

In my area, they closed the LM lot and did not move the cars to the Ford lot, so its easy to see how Mercury sales were flat, they weren't even available.

 

Enjoy your Infiniti - Ford/Lincoln doesn't need a buyer that isn't even looking at the facts.

 

Boy talk about badge engineering! Infinitis aren't even that reliable. Have fun.

Edited June 10, 2010 by WC Man

[akirby]

it was nice, but having a V6 with less then 300 HP is less then inspiring for a Super car

 

Depends on how much it weighs.............

[akirby]

I wish I wish I wish I could believe all this crap. But it sounds all the world to me like they are planning on slapping Lincoln grilles on Mercury products already in the pipeline.

 

Even though Fields said flat out that they are not rebadging anything?

 

There are 3 levels to platform sharing:

 

Rebadge - Slapping on a new badge, trim, front and/or rear clips (Milan and Mariner would fit this category but no Lincolns)

 

Platform sharing level 1 - Sharing drivetrains and greenhouse but nothing else (unique front, rear, interior, etc.) (Navigator, MKX, MKZ)

 

Platform sharing level 2 - 100% unique sheetmetal including greenhouse and doors, unique interiors, unique drivetrains (MKS, MKT)

 

 

The MKS and MKT (the only "new" Lincoln vehicles in the last 2 years) were not rebadges and were in fact level 2.

 

The MKZ and MKX were mid cycle refreshes. Even so they got all new interiors, front and rear clips. The MKZ is level 1 due to shared drivetrains but the MKX is as close to a level 2 as you can get with a MCE with a unique powertrain. Only the greenhouse remains which is too expensive to change on a MCE.

 

 

Everything Lincoln has done and said recently proves they are no longer doing rebadges. Why people continue to whine about Lincoln being a rebadged Ford is beyond me.

 

If you don't like what they're doing that's fine but stop whining about things that aren't happening.

[NickF1011]

2 examples:

LR2 - same size , competitive this and that. But the LR2 will actually move thru snow, mud and sand.

GMC Acadia and equivs - same HP give or take, same mpg give or take but the GM boats seat 2 or 3 more people.

 

The Escape and Edge compete against Land Rover? :blink:

 

The Acadia is significantly larger than the Edge. Compare the Acadia to the upcoming 2012 Explorer and see how it stacks up. THAT is a more valid comparison.

 

Last, show me a car mag comparo where the Edge or MKX looked good. I haven't seen one in a couple of years, but I do recall that Edge and X finished pretty far down the ladder when thrown in the mix. In particular, the brakes on these things are inferior.

 

Ah. Magazine racer. The only thing that matters at the end of the day is who chooses with their wallets. In that regard, the Edge has been a winner since day one.

 

OK, I'm done. Made my points. Got abused. Called a troll. Been here for years but I'm a troll cause I disagree. So put your blinders back on folks.

 

I'll just call you misguided.

[Deanh]

I've heard of PTO seal issues with them (along with the 500/Taurus)...but that might have been taken care of since then

thats been the only issue I have heard of, and its only on a minute % of AWD models only, AND it was truley minor...theo only other issue was a nother small % of clunky trans changes...minor reflash from what i was told....that 3.5/ trans combo is/ has been close to faultless...

[Ron W.]

it was nice, but having a V6 with less then 300 HP is less then inspiring for a Super car

 

 

Depends on how much it weighs.............

 

 

Keep in mind how many years ago it was released / produced

[NickF1011]

Keep in mind how many years ago it was released / produced

 

Yes, in 1991 that was fine and dandy. Within a few years, it was being outpowered by Camaro Z/28's. Talk about launch and abandon.

[Walt]

I, too, find this very disappointing news.

 

Yes, I have both a Ford and a Mercury currently in my garage.

 

Moving vehicle models, which should have a Mercury badge over to having a Lincoln badge, will only serve to degrade the value of the Lincoln brand. For example, having a Mercury variation of the Escape is good. Having a Lincoln variation of the Escape is bad. I mean, over pricing an Escape does not made it Lincoln.

 

GM tried this with Cadillac a few decades ago, with slapping Cadillac badges on Chevys. It took GM decades and millions of dollars to recover the lost value of their Cadillac brand.

 

Personally, I have a Mariner, because Mercury offered the variation of options I wanted, and Ford did not. I don't see that changing. In other words, I would not have bought an Escape, and Ford would have lost the sale. Ford intentionally throwing away sales, IMHO, does not make for a good, long range, business plan.

 

Goodbye Mercury. But don't be sad, the rest of Ford will be joining you in the corporate junk yard very soon.

Edited June 12, 2010 by Walt

[Edstock]

I don't see that changing.

 

Time will tell; check out your Ford dealer this time next year.

 

But don't be sad, the rest of Ford will be joining you in the corporate junk yard very soon.

 

You're entitled to your bummed-out opinion, even if it appears that Mulally, Fields and Farley disagree with you.

[nelsonlu]

Personally, I have a Mariner, because Mercury offered the variation of options I wanted, and Ford did not.

 

What "variation of options" is available on a Mercury that is not available on a Ford these days?

[akirby]

In other words, I would not have bought an Escape, and Ford would have lost the sale.

 

So what, exactly, would you have bought instead of an escape?

[Walt]

What "variation of options" is available on a Mercury that is not available on a Ford these days?

 

Just a couple... try to fully equip an Escape Hybrid with everything except a sun roof. You can a Mariner Hybrid.

 

Try to order an adjustable driver's lumbar support on an Escape. Its standard on a Mariner.

[Walt]

it appears that Mulally, Fields and Farley disagree with you.

 

Ah, the Pep Boys. A source of sound advice, always. :blah:

[2b2]

...Goodbye Mercury. But don't be sad, the rest of Ford will be joining you in the corporate junk yard very soon.

Walt, I feel for you. Imho murdering Mercury over the past 10 years was one of the stupidest & cruelest things I know of...

&

I can't speculate (yet) about the Ford Brand but have grave doubts that Lincoln will succeed anywhere near as easily as they COULD HAVE with Mercury

[TomServo92]

Goodbye Mercury. But don't be sad, the rest of Ford will be joining you in the corporate junk yard very soon.

 

OK everyone, file this away with all of those P71, MLHM5, and Ford?-LOL! predictions. We can pull them all out next year and laugh our asses off at them!

[630land]

"Mercury had what I wanted..." Outdated mid price brand appeal. "They would have lost my sale" But, now they can build and sell more Ford brand cars and beat Toyota and Honda. Facts showed that late model Mercuries were going to fleets, or employees in Michigan. They need more Fords to sell at retail to customers in growing states in the South and West, where Ford is finally gaining a foothold.

 

When it comes time to trade in, Mariners/Milans/Mountineers will have same resale as the Fords. When there was a glut of used rental Taurus and Sables last decade, local "no haggle prices" were exactly the same. I leased a '91 Mercury Tracer LTS, and it had less residual than the Ford Escort GT. Topaz/Tempo, Contour/Mystique, and Taurus/Sable are now interchangeable beaters.

Edited June 14, 2010 by 630land

[NickF1011]

Moving vehicle models, which should have a Mercury badge over to having a Lincoln badge, will only serve to degrade the value of the Lincoln brand. For example, having a Mercury variation of the Escape is good. Having a Lincoln variation of the Escape is bad. I mean, over pricing an Escape does not made it Lincoln.

 

GM tried this with Cadillac a few decades ago, with slapping Cadillac badges on Chevys. It took GM decades and millions of dollars to recover the lost value of their Cadillac brand.

 

Where did you read that Lincoln will be offering Fords with different badges on them? That is simply untrue. I know it. You know it. Unless you would consider the MKT a "rebadged Flex". I know the axing of Mercury is a bitter pill for some of you to swallow, but really, hoping for the death of Ford over it is a bit extreme don't you think? :poke:

[twintornados]

A point to ponder....since Edsel Ford created Mercury from scratch and it is seen as a legacy for the Ford Family...when they finally agreed to allow Mercury to be shuttered, it proves to me that the Ford Family is serious about the future of the Ford Motor Company....Mercury was the ultimate "sacred cow" and for them to agree to it's demise is astonishing.

 

I have a warm place in my heart for Mercury, but as time goes on, it's continued existence seems more and more irrelevant. When Edsel designed Mercury...Fords were basic transportation and workhorse vehicles as was the demand of Henry. Fast forward to today, and with the advent of Ford moving upmarket, Mercury is no longer needed to bridge the gap between Ford and Lincoln and the Ford Family was wise to realize that.

[2b2]

... Mercury is no longer needed to bridge the gap between Ford and Lincoln and the Ford Family was wise to realize that.

and my contention is that Mercury has the potential to be a LOT more than a pricepoint

 

and to a large extent, FoMoCo never "got" Merc - at least for most of the past 30+ years

[NickF1011]

and my contention is that Mercury has the potential to be a LOT more than a pricepoint

 

 

Such as...?