akirby Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 How many decades has it been since Ford had any comprehensive plan for Lincoln? Throwing new grilles on them isn't a comprehensive plan. Launching the LS with a huge advertising campaign isn't a comprehensive plan. For those who are doubting, seriously, when was the last time Ford ever looked at the entire Lincoln product lineup, marketing strategy, and dealer network all at once and attempted to overhaul it? Probably never. So comparisons really cannot be made. All we can do is wait. ^^^ This ^^^ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
630land Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 GM has no right to boast, until they pay off all the US loans + interest! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark B. Morrow Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 This guy is a complete jackass.....do you hear disparaging comments from Mulally regarding GM? No... Maybe he is just trying to tweak the new Lincoln brand managers' nose that defected from Cadillac.....but in short... Go "F" yourself Akerson, you make Bob Lutz seem classy in comparison. Spot on. Akerson is in way over his head. Taking shots at Mulally is desperation. While the progress at Lincoln is certainly slower than I would prefer, I have much more faith in Mulally to pull it together than I do in Akerson to keep GM running at a profit. The ability of Mulally and Bill Ford to see the real world and plan accordingly is the reason Ford didn't end up in bankruptcy. Akerson has shown nothing that leads me to believe that he can see the reality of of the industry is Product Driven. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark B. Morrow Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 How many decades has it been since Ford had any comprehensive plan for Lincoln? Throwing new grilles on them isn't a comprehensive plan. Launching the LS with a huge advertising campaign isn't a comprehensive plan. For those who are doubting, seriously, when was the last time Ford ever looked at the entire Lincoln product lineup, marketing strategy, and dealer network all at once and attempted to overhaul it? Probably never. So comparisons really cannot be made. All we can do is wait. McNamera did it in 1959 when he threatened to kill the Lincoln brand. The result was the '61 Lincoln. Since then Lincoln has had a few successes like the '68 Mark III and original Navigator but nothing close to the change exemplified by the '61 Continental. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 McNamera did it in 1959 when he threatened to kill the Lincoln brand. Well going by McNamera's later "successes" as Sec of Defense...I'd say he's had a very speckled success record... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atvman Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 [quote name='silvrsvt' timestamp='1307376322' post='705386' I dunno about that, the Genesis (which includes a sporty coupe) only sold 2700 units this past month and the Equuis only sold 222 cars....even the MKT out sold it :P Though I do have to have to say that Lincoln has slightly more brand cache then Hyundai. I don't think fixing Lincoln is as easy as RWD=Winning... I don't think you understood his comment. The Genesis and Equus are both legitimate luxury cars, they'd sell a lot better if Hyundai had any brand equity. I'd say both cars are closer to being real luxury cars than the MKS and MKZ are. If Lincoln built cars as good as them, we wouldn't be having this discussion. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfan Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 Unfortunately, Karma's a bitch. I tried to dig up those old Lincoln commercials (What a Luxury Car Should Be) from the late 1980s and early 1990s when Lincoln was poking fun at GM for its lookalike Buick, Olds, and Cadillac luxury cars. Unfortunately, Lincoln has more or less been following GM's failed strategy for the last seven or eight years. The two newest cars in the lineup (MKS/T) are being outsold by the ancient and doomed Town Car. Gimicks like stretching the MKT and calling it a Town Car is not going to work. Granted, they are working on Lincoln, but they literally need a "clean sheet" approach to the brand. In fact, it would have made more sense for Ford to keep Mercury until a complete relaunch of the Lincoln brand could occur. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PREMiERdrum Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 Unfortunately, Karma's a bitch. I tried to dig up those old Lincoln commercials (What a Luxury Car Should Be) from the late 1980s and early 1990s when Lincoln was poking fun at GM for its lookalike Buick, Olds, and Cadillac luxury cars. Unfortunately, Lincoln has more or less been following GM's failed strategy for the last seven or eight years. The two newest cars in the lineup (MKS/T) are being outsold by the ancient and doomed Town Car. Gimicks like stretching the MKT and calling it a Town Car is not going to work. Granted, they are working on Lincoln, but they literally need a "clean sheet" approach to the brand. In fact, it would have made more sense for Ford to keep Mercury until a complete relaunch of the Lincoln brand could occur. Except, as has been stated here ad nauseum, pulling the plug on Mercury and forcing their bloated dealer network to survive on Lincoln volume alone has been instrumental in shuttering many of the marginal dealers. It's been tough and slow, but the new product is almost here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomcat68 Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 I remember an interview of Jaques Nasser in Automobile and he made some comments like this about GM and I thought that a CEO shouldn't make asinine comments like that. I also started to think he would make a bad CEO after reading that article and that Ford was crazy for picking him. All I can say is that Akerson will get his when GM wakes up and sees him for the clueless twit that he is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sranger Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 He may be a jerk, but he just might also be right..... I have not seen much from Lincoln lately (or what may come in the in the near future) that would make me more optimistic of Lincoln's future.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 He may be a jerk, but he just might also be right..... I have not seen much from Lincoln lately (or what may come in the in the near future) that would make me more optimistic of Lincoln's future.... Nobody else has, either. Ya gotta love the security on the future product. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomServo92 Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 I have not seen much from Lincoln Ford lately (or what may come in the in the near future) that would make me more optimistic of Lincoln's Ford's future.... Memories of 2007.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 Unfortunately, it is hard for me to go to my local Lincoln dealer (which is a small corner of my local Ford dealer's showroom, nothing more) and not agree with Ackerson's remarks. I hope Ford realizes that a bunch of dolled up Fords with ugly grilles are not going to cut it. Lincoln is a big 'wait and see', that's it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomServo92 Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 Lincoln is a big 'wait and see', that's it. That's all they're asking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 Lincoln is a big 'wait and see', that's it. And you're an impatient broken record. It takes time to do it right - or would you rather they just throw out some more half-baked rebadges like they've done in the past? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 And you're an impatient broken record. It takes time to do it right - or would you rather they just throw out some more half-baked rebadges like they've done in the past? No, Lincoln is a broken record of half-baked rebadges. Their most recent 'new' products are half baked re-badges. The only real contenders they ever had were the '56 and '61 Continentals. How much longer do we have to wait? But I will say this- it looks like they got the quality where it should be. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomServo92 Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 How much longer do we have to wait? I'm guessing about 2-3 more model years to really see where they are going. But I will say this- it looks like they got the quality where it should be. The first step. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark B. Morrow Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 Well going by McNamera's later "successes" as Sec of Defense...I'd say he's had a very speckled success record... His success at Ford was very consistent, 4 seat T-Bird in '58 that outsold the '55-'57 combined and created the mass market personal luxury car, 1960 Falcon the best selling first year new model in history, until the Mustang, and the '61 Lincoln line. There were misses such as his inability to stop the Edsel, the Skyliner which McNamera said would make cloth top convertibles obsolete and the Fordization of Mercury in '61. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Jellymoulds Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 GM CEO says Cadillac are going global? They tried it the UK last year they sold 20 cars, this year so far they sold 0. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 No, Lincoln is a broken record of half-baked rebadges. Their most recent 'new' products are half baked re-badges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordtech1 Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 No, Lincoln is a broken record of half-baked rebadges. Their most recent 'new' products are half baked re-badges. The only real contenders they ever had were the '56 and '61 Continentals. How much longer do we have to wait? But I will say this- it looks like they got the quality where it should be. The 90's were good for Lincoln. Remember the 1990s Town Car? It sold well. I remeber the design change from 89 to 90. I think the 90 TC won Car of the year then also. As a kid I remember riding in a neighbors 90 Cartier and thinking it was so much better than my parents Cadillac at the time. The 98 Navigator, started the Luxury SUV craze. The FWD continentials were not much to talk about. It seems like Lincoln lost their touch about 2000. Then the LS came out. Very different Lincoln, but with Jaguar DNA and lots of electrical issues. In 2003 alot of redesigns or MCE to just about everything and addition of Aviator. But all that wasn't enough. They were just two steps behind everyone else. But as stated, by far the most iconic LIncolns are from the 50s and 60s. I loved the 2002 Lincoln Continential Concept car. If you are going to make use of a retro design, I liked that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SVT_MAN Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 (edited) I hate to say it, but really .. ONE FORD saved Ford more than anything. It isn't that the American products are bad (Fusion, I'm looking at you in particular - I drive one), it's just that the European products just seem a lot better. In my eyes, if we hadn't had Sync and a product portfolio from Europe to pull from, Ford might not have the cheery feel-good story it's enjoying right now. And even with those good products, we're still having some issues. Quality in particular now. Even my Fusion's door handle decided to break. Oh wait, this is the fourth one I've replaced. Better than a mechanical issue, but seriously .. annoying. Lincoln is wandering in the wilderness and I'm not sure it can be saved in all honesty. Furthermore, at this point, I'm not sure Lincoln even wants to be delivered. (Hey if GM's CEO can make lousy religious allusions, so can I.) I liked it when the Lincoln LS came up to challenge the BMW 5 series ... but it never had any real distinction or any performance benefit that would make it better than a BMW. I'd love it if Lincoln became a performance-oriented brand, but I just don't see that happening with Cadillac so far ahead already. I'm not sure what niche Lincoln can fill, then ... super luxury isn't really Lincoln either. I long for the days when a Lincoln was actually desirable. As far as this GM CEO, wow .... taking pot shots at competitors and making flippant religious allusions isn't exactly what I would call classy or smart. I guess he read How to Win Friends and Influence People. Not. My personal feeling is that Ford and GM both killed the traditional luxury car for this very simple reason: somewhere in the past 10 years, basically EVERY car became a luxury car. Back in the 90s, your Lincoln Town Car had leather seats, digital dash, cushy ride, comfort and convenience features, and the latest safety features. Fast forward 15 years. What car on the road DOESN'T have those features? Very few. This, in my opinion, is also why Mercury was killed. Fords got too fancy because that's what people demand of cars these days just as basic equipment. We're all pretty spoiled. The difference between Ford and GM's luxury strategies is that GM realized they had to differentiate their luxury division from their core brands like. I'm not saying that Chevys with "near luxury" are that great, but when you have leather, navigation, auto climate control, and the like in a $20,000 car, what's the need to spend double that on a gas guzzling land yacht? People who have that kind of cash might as well buy a badge with some distinction, and Lincoln isn't that. Cadillac, on the other hand, is somewhat desirable and almost a halo BRAND for GM at this point. Cadillac spent a ton of money to revive their brand, but they also gained a lot of respect and credibility. People don't scoff at Cadillacs. But Lincolns? Well, with Lincolns .. people just don't notice. That typically isn't good. Edited June 7, 2011 by SVT_MAN 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 For me, the LS was indeed a gimmer of hope. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fou_bleu Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 Seems like someone needs to look in their own backyard before trying to defer their woes to someone else. What's Cadillac got lined up for the MKC or whatever? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomcat68 Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 Seems like someone needs to look in their own backyard before trying to defer their woes to someone else. What's Cadillac got lined up for the MKC or whatever? Buick. With a second luxury brand, GM can make Caddy chase the top brands like MB, Bmw, Jag, and Lexus. Buick can take on Acura, Volvo, Saab (dead issue), and Lincoln. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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