akirby Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 If Ford is making a decent profit, I doubt they really care where they are in the sales charts. Why is that so hard for people to understand? Ford could have easily made Ranger the #1 selling small pickup but they certainly would not have made any money doing it. And I don't think Ford would give up profits just to be #1, even on the F150. They don't protect the F150 because it's #1 - they protect it because it's damn profitable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted October 3, 2012 Author Share Posted October 3, 2012 Why is that so hard for people to understand? Ford could have easily made Ranger the #1 selling small pickup but they certainly would not have made any money doing it. And I don't think Ford would give up profits just to be #1, even on the F150. They don't protect the F150 because it's #1 - they protect it because it's damn profitable. Because you are the only smart one I guess and the rest of us are stupid. You talk as if Ford was a niche company and sales and market share don't matter along with share price and market cap. They all go together. Ford is not BMW or Porsche. It's a company for the masses. It's important that its bread butter high volume vehicles do well in the market place, and many of them do such as Fusion, Escape, F-Series, Edge, and Explorer. And the more they sell, the better they do assuming they are not giving them away. I would like to see Fusion be in top three along with Edge, Explorer, Escape, and F-Series. And you better believe it's very important to Ford to maintain F-Series as number one pickup in world in SALES. I also would like to see Taurus, Flex, Fiesta, and generally Lincoln sell better no matter how you rationalize that all is well with them. Happy Ford dealerships are also MOTIVATED dealerships and will sell more Ford product. Right now not having any Fusions to sell does not make for happy dealership no matter how much you berate us as stupid. You can't sell what you don't have. At various times, Ford dealerships have been bereft of much product last couple years. No inventory of certain model lines is not good when competitor across street does. Lots of customers may be interested in a new Fusion, but don't want to wait and will go elsewhere if Ford dealership is bereft of them. That is lost sale and profit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 Because you are the only smart one I guess and the rest of us are stupid. You talk as if Ford was a niche company and sales and market share don't matter along with share price and market cap. They all go together. Ford is not BMW or Porsche. It's a company for the masses. It's important that its bread butter high volume vehicles do well in the market place, and many of them do such as Fusion, Escape, F-Series, Edge, and Explorer. And the more they sell, the better they do assuming they are not giving them away. I would like to see Fusion be in top three along with Edge, Explorer, Escape, and F-Series. And you better believe it's very important to Ford to maintain F-Series as number one pickup in world in SALES. I also would like to see Taurus, Flex, Fiesta, and generally Lincoln sell better no matter how you rationalize that all is well with them. Happy Ford dealerships are also MOTIVATED dealerships and will sell more Ford product. Right now not having any Fusions to sell does not make for happy dealership no matter how much you berate us as stupid. You can't sell what you don't have. At various times, Ford dealerships have been bereft of much product last couple years. No inventory of certain model lines is not good when competitor across street does. Lots of customers may be interested in a new Fusion, but don't want to wait and will go elsewhere if Ford dealership is bereft of them. That is lost sale and profit. How does share price help Ford turn a profit on its vehicles? And doing well in the marketplace does not mean leading sales charts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 the rest of us are stupid. Not the rest of you, just you. You talk as if Ford was a niche company and sales and market share don't matter along with share price and market cap. They all go together. Ford is not BMW or Porsche. It's a company for the masses. How is Ford different from BMW and Porsche? Are the accounting rules different? Do they not operate on Profit = Revenue minus Expense. How does a change in Ford's stock price affect the company's marketing decisions or product decisions? IFord can have the best performance ever but the stock still goes down. It's all speculation and the things that a business has to do to see a short term rise in stock price are generally not conducive to long term health. If the company is profitable and being managed effectively and growing smartly where possible the stock price will take care of itself - long term. As for market share - GM was #1 and went bankrupt. Market share alone is MEANINGLESS. Gaining marketshare is great as long as it increases profitability. Reducing profitability in order to gain marketshare is almost never a good idea unless there is some tangible future benefit where you can be more profitable down the road with the added marketshare. Happy Ford dealerships are also MOTIVATED dealerships and will sell more Ford product. Right now not having any Fusions to sell does not make for happy dealership no matter how much you berate us as stupid. You can't sell what you don't have. At various times, Ford dealerships have been bereft of much product last couple years. No inventory of certain model lines is not good when competitor across street does. Lots of customers may be interested in a new Fusion, but don't want to wait and will go elsewhere if Ford dealership is bereft of them. That is lost sale and profit. As if every dealer wasn't already MOTIVATED to sell as many cars as possible. You're looking at it strictly from the dealer's perspective. What is good for the dealer is not always what is good for Ford. The dealer's profit is the same on a Fusion whether Ford makes 300K or 350K per year but Ford's profit is totally different if they make 300K in one plant versus having to make 350K in 2 plants. Dealers would have certainly benefited from a new Ranger but Ford would not have and that's the distinction you don't seem to be capable of understanding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 That's really not the question, anyway--the question is how profitable they are. If Ford is making a decent profit, I doubt they really care where they are in the sales charts. Given the Fiesta's success in other markets, I would say the profitability can likely be assumed to be relatively strong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 Because you are the only smart one I guess and the rest of us are stupid. You talk as if Ford was a niche company and sales and market share don't matter along with share price and market cap. They all go together. Ford is not BMW or Porsche. It's a company for the masses. It's important that its bread butter high volume vehicles do well in the market place, and many of them do such as Fusion, Escape, F-Series, Edge, and Explorer. And the more they sell, the better they do assuming they are not giving them away. I would like to see Fusion be in top three along with Edge, Explorer, Escape, and F-Series. And you better believe it's very important to Ford to maintain F-Series as number one pickup in world in SALES. I also would like to see Taurus, Flex, Fiesta, and generally Lincoln sell better no matter how you rationalize that all is well with them. Happy Ford dealerships are also MOTIVATED dealerships and will sell more Ford product. Right now not having any Fusions to sell does not make for happy dealership no matter how much you berate us as stupid. You can't sell what you don't have. At various times, Ford dealerships have been bereft of much product last couple years. No inventory of certain model lines is not good when competitor across street does. Lots of customers may be interested in a new Fusion, but don't want to wait and will go elsewhere if Ford dealership is bereft of them. That is lost sale and profit. And you can't have what they can't build. If you have one plant that's been operating at 100% capacity that builds all Fusions, and inevitably needs to be shut down to change over to the new model, how can you expect them to build more to account for that no production during change over period? You can't if they were already building as many as they could. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
97svtgoin05gt Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 I found myself sitting in a Fiesta when I bought my Focus and almost immediately getting out of it saying...wow, that's small. So first you have the small interior, then you have the close to Focus price tag, the close to Focus fuel mileage and once someone sits in a Focus and drives one, you're really only going to buy a Fiesta if the Focus is just completely out of financial reach. I feel the Fiesta should have a higher MPG than it does to get the job done. Perhaps the switch to the 1.0EB will make it fit better in the grand scheme. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnostic Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 I think the b-max would a better fit in the US if they could price it right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANTAUS Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 I would say if the Focus has similar fuel economy, most will go for the bigger package. Also I believe there's better programs for the Focus, than the Fiesta. But at the end, whether they buy the Fiesta, or Focus, they are still buying a Ford, and thats the number that really counts. The icing is if they are willing to spend a bit more on the Focus... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noah Harbinger Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 It's far better to have a great car selling mid-pack than a lemon at the top of the charts. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 (edited) I think the b-max would a better fit in the US if they could price it right. the B-Max is too heavy and too expensive to be a true competitor in the B-car market the way the Fiesta is today. where the B-max excels is as a Viable alternative to a traditional C-car, and it would hold on to a niche that no competition will be able to match for at least 4 years. To sell the B-max as ford's sole B-car is akin to Chrysler selling the Caliber to replace the neon, you fall into a trap that trys to mainstream a non mainstream vehicle you end up trying to match your low end on price because you have nothing below it to fill that gap. The B-max is a premium product the fiesta is mainstream tey complement each other. Edited October 4, 2012 by Biker16 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZanatWork Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 FIAT may not have many dealerships, but they have only one model on which to put all their efforts...which means no inter-showroom competition. Plus, yeah, having a stunning model in a heavily-run commercial never hurts. Throw in whatever financial tonnage they gave Charlie Sheen to not only be in a commercial, but to allow the car to be in an Anger Management episode...and it's hard for the Fiesta to compete with its ad campaign basically halted. Given that I doubt Ford makes much on Fiestas, I doubt they're terribly worried. I still hope the Fiesta ST comes here, though...that would help against the Abarth models.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSFan00 Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Adv. $$ spent per unit sold (and per customer show room visit) would be a pretty hilarious comparo to the 500. And, notably, Fiat does advertise (not sure if they have one) a performance model too. When Fiat also has a competitive badged version of the Dart/Chrys 200 or whatever, wake me up to this concern. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironhorse Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 There is no profit in the car for the dealer,and the programs are not competitive for the consumer. The Focus is a better deal for both dealer and consumer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted October 4, 2012 Author Share Posted October 4, 2012 I was by Bill Brown Ford today, and happy to see 13 new 2013 Fusions on lot with two being prepped for purchase. All SE's with most having base 2.5 I4 and a few with 1.6 Ecoboost. Prices were from $24,000 to $28,000 for SE with Ecoboost and Navigation/moonroof plus some other options. None had MFT thank god. Impressed that all came standard with entry keypad on B pillar that is very classy. 1.6 Eco comes with one round, chrome exhaust tip. Also saw new C-Max going out plus very nice looking ST and Focus EV. The Focus EV was loaded inside with MFT and other options. The ST looks very nice in Tuxedo Black. Good build quality on it as I really checked it out. I'm impressed with Focus ST. A lot of car for $27,000 sticker. Looks like blast to drive. Even in SE form, the new Fusion looks like premium auto. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 . None had MFT thank god. Yeah, good thing. You might not have bought one otherwise. Oh wait. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 There is no profit in the car for the dealer,and the programs are not competitive for the consumer. The Focus is a better deal for both dealer and consumer. Ive sold quite a few, maybe reflective odf the fact I own a couple, and like the car, but Im totally in agreement.....there should at least be a pull/ spin bonus for the poor sales person spending his whole day selling/ demo-ing and delivering the car...because his commision surely isnt incentive to do a great job for sure...I witness ales people AVOIDING Fiesta customers for that exact reason....sad, but true.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lfeg Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 Ive sold quite a few, maybe reflective odf the fact I own a couple, and like the car, but Im totally in agreement.....there should at least be a pull/ spin bonus for the poor sales person spending his whole day selling/ demo-ing and delivering the car...because his commision surely isnt incentive to do a great job for sure...I witness ales people AVOIDING Fiesta customers for that exact reason....sad, but true.... Yes, this can be a problem. If an automaker wants to get a great effort to sell an entry level vehicle, they are going to have to find a way to fairly compensate those on the floor doing the selling. And the entry level customer can be a repeat customer (and a service dept customer too) down the road. And some of the best efforts that I have seen at "selling" the service dept have been from the salesperson that sold the vehicle. There should also be a way of compensation for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmm55 Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 .......13 new 2013 Fusions........ Prices were from $24,000 to $28,000 for SE with Ecoboost and Navigation/moonroof..........None had MFT thank god. If you get Navigation it requires MFT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 If you get Navigation it requires MFT. bingo....was wondering if someone would catch that.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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