NickF1011 Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 You argue over the stupidest bullshit Nick. MKS sales are down last few months, even after decent MCE. Hard to look at MKS sales every month while new XTS booms out of box. Every sales report posters on here remark about MKS low sales. I don't even see how MKS will remain sales relevant until next generation model hits dealerships as its sales fall every month. Yeah, I suppose Lincoln could start giving them away to bump up sales, but that may be what they have to do soon. I've heard you even say negative things about MKS. I wouldn't be surprsed to see XTS sales robbing sales away from MKS because it's newest kid on block and domestic for those who buy luxury domestic. Now I've heard a few negative reports about Cadillac's CUE system, so maybe XTS sales will tail off, but for now MKS sales look flat to worse. Yes, arguing with you usually is pretty stupid. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PREMiERdrum Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Just for the sake of facts: September, 2012 Hyundai Gensis: 2,669 Cadillac XTS: 2,506 Lincoln MKS: 709 Lexus LS: 558 Audi A8: 551 Infiniti M: 500 Hyundai Equus: 320 Acura RL: 34 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Just for the sake of facts: September, 2012 Hyundai Gensis: 2,669 Cadillac XTS: 2,506 Lincoln MKS: 709 Lexus LS: 558 Audi A8: 551 Infiniti M: 500 Hyundai Equus: 320 Acura RL: 34 Remember that Genesis includes the coupe, which I would venture to guess account for far more than half the sales. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 You argue over the stupidest bullshit Nick. MKS sales are down last few months, even after decent MCE. Hard to look at MKS sales every month while new XTS booms out of box. Every sales report posters on here remark about MKS low sales. I don't even see how MKS will remain sales relevant until next generation model hits dealerships as its sales fall every month. Yeah, I suppose Lincoln could start giving them away to bump up sales, but that may be what they have to do soon. I've heard you even say negative things about MKS. I wouldn't be surprsed to see XTS sales robbing sales away from MKS because it's newest kid on block and domestic for those who buy luxury domestic. Now I've heard a few negative reports about Cadillac's CUE system, so maybe XTS sales will tail off, but for now MKS sales look flat to worse. There is a big difference between saying the MKS is a FAILURE and saying that it hasn't been as successful as Ford would have liked. What you fail to realize is that every market is different. You need to look at sales of other vehicles in that segment and compare MKS sales to other similar vehicles. 3000 units would be a huge success for MKS but it would be a dismal failure for F-series. There are plenty of full sized luxury vehicles that sell far fewer than the MKS. So it's a disappointment but far from a complete failure. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OHV 16V Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 MKS has not been a sales failure. You're talking about fullsize luxury sedans. That's not exactly a huge segment. Would you call the Genesis and Equus sedans failures also? MKS consistently sells far better than both. WRONG! With the Equus, you're absolutely correct, but the Genesis obliterates the MKS. Better research your numbers: 2009: MKS = 17,174 / Genesis = 21,889 2010: MKS = 14,417 / Genesis = 29,122 2011: MKS = 12,217 / Genesis = 32,998 2012 YTD: MKS = 9,410 / Genesis = 27,016 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 (edited) WRONG! With the Equus, you're absolutely correct, but the Genesis obliterates the MKS. Better research your numbers: 2009: MKS = 17,174 / Genesis = 21,889 2010: MKS = 14,417 / Genesis = 29,122 2011: MKS = 12,217 / Genesis = 32,998 2012 YTD: MKS = 9,410 / Genesis = 27,016 I was obviously referring to Genesis SEDAN, which Hyundai does not break out separately. Judging by my observations around Metro Annapolis though, I'd say it's probably around 4:1 coupe vs. sedan though. I'm still completely baffled as to why Hyundai decided to call them both Genesis in the first place. Edited October 19, 2012 by NickF1011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PREMiERdrum Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 WRONG! With the Equus, you're absolutely correct, but the Genesis obliterates the MKS. Better research your numbers: 2009: MKS = 17,174 / Genesis = 21,889 2010: MKS = 14,417 / Genesis = 29,122 2011: MKS = 12,217 / Genesis = 32,998 2012 YTD: MKS = 9,410 / Genesis = 27,016 Without knowing coupe/sedan breakdown for Genesis, the comparison is rather pointless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aneekr Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 There are plenty of full sized luxury vehicles that sell far fewer than the MKS. There are also plenty of entries in that segment that are simply better vehicles overall than the MKS. Among the cars PREMiERdrum listed in post #27, only the Acura RL is more underwhelming. On the positive side, the lackluster nature of the MKS may provide Ford and its Lincoln brand team with the impetus to create a truly exemplary flagship car in the future! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
630land Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 I agree that the new names may be referring to the MK series'. New brand would be a huge expense and what kind of name would work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PREMiERdrum Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 I agree that the new names may be referring to the MK series'. New brand would be a huge expense and what kind of name would work? As a retirement tribute to Mulally, Lincoln will hereafter be renamed as "Ginger Luxury Motors". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OHV 16V Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 I was obviously referring to Genesis SEDAN, which Hyundai does not break out separately. Judging by my observations around Metro Annapolis though, I'd say it's probably around 4:1 coupe vs. sedan though. I'm still completely baffled as to why Hyundai decided to call them both Genesis in the first place. From what I've read, it's the sedan that handily outsells the coupe. :shrug: And the reason they combine them is because, like Ford with the Explorer/Explorer Sport Trac and Toyota with the Corolla/Martrix, the Genesis Coupe shares its platform with the sedan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 http://wardsauto.com/north-america/genesis-awd-model-likely-no-plans-premium-brand Hyundai does not break out coupe sales but says 2-door and 4-door sales typically are split 50/50 each month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timf Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 I could see the Lincoln Escape following in line with -ator naming scheme of it's older siblings the Aviator and Navigator. It looks like at one time Ford had the name Equator trademarked for use as an automobile model. Perhaps this could be resurrected for use on the new compact crossover? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 From what I've read, it's the sedan that handily outsells the coupe. :shrug: And the reason they combine them is because, like Ford with the Explorer/Explorer Sport Trac and Toyota with the Corolla/Martrix, the Genesis Coupe shares its platform with the sedan. Explorer/Sport Trac and Corolla/Matrix at least have similar characters and appearances. The Genesis coupe is about as similar in character to the sedan as the Mustang is to the Taurus. If platforms are the only qualifier, maybe Ford should combine MKS sales with Explorer. Take that, Genesis! :P 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 There are also plenty of entries in that segment that are simply better vehicles overall than the MKS. Agreed, but that doesn't make it a complete failure, either. At one time it was #3 in sales behind the E class and 5 series. I expect the new one to be spectacular. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tico Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 (edited) Getting back to the topic, possibly renaming Lincoln the brand, what would they use for the new name? Ford unlike GM or Chyrsler does not have a huge list of retired brands to revive. For instance GM has names Like LaSalle for Luxury and Chrysler has Nash that could be brought back as a value brand. But Ford owns nothing but Mercury as far as I can see. As far as something totally new, it would have to be good and it would cost millions to promte. Many have tried but failed at introducing a new brand. Edited October 19, 2012 by Tico Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Getting back to the topic, possibly renaming Lincoln the brand, what would they use for the new name? Ford unlike GM or Chyrsler does not have a huge list of retired brands to revive. For instance GM has names Like LaSalle for Luxury and Chrysler has Nash that could be brought back as a value brand. But Ford owns nothing but Mercury as far as I can see. As far as something totally new, it would have to be good and it would cost millions to promte. Many have tried but failed at introducing a new brand. Why would they go to the past to resurrect a name of another product that was previously put out to pasture? If that was the case, they could stay with Lincoln. If they were going to change it, I'd want them to choose something new. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmm55 Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Lincoln Motor Company, could become shortened to LMC eventually. Like DMC, it would still be called by it's name: DeLorean. DMC-12 was the model. LMC-MKS doesn't roll off the tongue too well though! LMC Aviator sounds good to me. Or "LMC" could be a foreign market name, but still includes the name "Lincoln" for the home market. I don't know how the name "Lincoln" plays in China or Europe......it has such a uniquely American history being named after a past President. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
traxiii Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Yeah, if Mulally wouldn't let them kill a name with 20 years of brand equity, I don't see how he'd let them kill a name with nearly a century of it. Stranger things have happened, I guess, but I'd also be shocked to see them no longer have Lincoln in the name. Maybe they're talking about getting rid of the stupid MK? series of "names"... Yes, PLEASE GET RID OF THE 3 LETTER "NAMES" ! I can't keep them all straight. Bring back Continental, Zephyr, or maybe rebrand as Lincoln some older Ford names, Thunderbird. Cougar, Skyline, etc. or just use your imagination, and more than 3 letters. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Explorer/Sport Trac and Corolla/Matrix at least have similar characters and appearances. The Genesis coupe is about as similar in character to the sedan as the Mustang is to the Taurus. If platforms are the only qualifier, maybe Ford should combine MKS sales with Explorer. Take that, Genesis! :P Better yet, count all D3 sales, not just MKS and Explorer. ---- As for the renaming talk, I personally believe he was referring to the "Lincoln Motor Company" (or Lincoln Motors Company, not sure if it has an s or not) change, not some altogether new or a resurrected name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomcat68 Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 (edited) Continental was it's own brand one time... I think it will be Lincoln Motor Company and they may make a "LMC" logo for the wheel centers or something. As for the MK names... I've said it before, I would rather see it spelled as "Mark S", "Mark X "or whatever letter they use after. Edited October 19, 2012 by atomcat68 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Removing the Lincoln brand sounds a bit nutty and poorly timed, but so does "Lincoln Motor Company", it's not 1920 anymore and if Lincoln wants to seem desperate and superficial, go ahead and dick around with your branding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Removing the Lincoln brand sounds a bit nutty and poorly timed, but so does "Lincoln Motor Company", it's not 1920 anymore and if Lincoln wants to seem desperate and superficial, go ahead and dick around with your branding. Why? Its just adding words name, but doesn't really change anything....Its still going to be Called Lincoln MKX, not Lincoln Motor Company MKX. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Agreed silvrsvt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
probowler Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 "Lincoln Motor Company" Yeah, I like the ring of that.... It's classy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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