7Mary3 Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 A couple more SKETCHY rumors: GM is selling European operations (Opel/Vauxhall) to buy Navistar. VW is too much of a mess now to pursue NAV, plus MAN/Scania is supposedly not profitable (news to me). Rousch propane V-10 will be dropped after 2017, no specifics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hwyman3 Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 A couple more SKETCHY rumors: GM is selling European operations (Opel/Vauxhall) to buy Navistar. VW is too much of a mess now to pursue NAV, plus MAN/Scania is supposedly not profitable (news to me). Rousch propane V-10 will be dropped after 2017, no specifics. Interesting thought on GM buying Navistar. I knew they were doing a Joint Venture on mediums, but hadn't heard GM was considering an outright purchase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 Interesting thought on GM buying Navistar. I knew they were doing a Joint Venture on mediums, but hadn't heard GM was considering an outright purchase. VERY sketchy rumor. I have heard nothing solid to make me think this is serious. At least not yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 Rousch propane V-10 will be dropped after 2017, no specifics. WOW ! They have been building that for a long time ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lfeg Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 A couple more SKETCHY rumors: GM is selling European operations (Opel/Vauxhall) to buy Navistar. VW is too much of a mess now to pursue NAV, plus MAN/Scania is supposedly not profitable (news to me). Rousch propane V-10 will be dropped after 2017, no specifics. Well, Roush dropping the propane V10 does not really surprise me. As I mentioned quite a while ago our local transit agency went with Chevy cut-aways for the small buses because of the factory support of the propane option. I wonder if there will be a "preferred" propane upfitter for Ford down the line,, because the way they are going now, they are not taken very seriously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 (edited) Roush propane V-10 will be dropped after 2017, no specifics. . Is it because Ford is taking the propane system "in house"? Or, is it because the 6.8L is being dropped from production... Edited February 22, 2017 by twintornados Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 (edited) . Is it because Ford is taking the propane system "in house"? Or, is it because the 6.8L is being dropped from production... Or because Ford is dropping the V10 soon? Ha! You and your sneaky edit. I hit quote, typed my message, and I noticed the text you added had shown up in the quote just as I hit post. Edited February 22, 2017 by fordmantpw 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 VERY sketchy rumor. I have heard nothing solid to make me think this is serious. At least not yet. Very sketchy has to be a good way to put it. You really think Mary Barra has a passion for heavy trucks? I would believe Ford would be back into it before GM. At least they still have a presence on the world scene and I think it is safe to say Bill Ford has an appreciation for that segment. In any case I would not expect either would be back into it unless Ford continued the push into vocational class 8. Based on what they are currently doing in class 7, that is not likely either. Class 6 another story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 Well, Roush dropping the propane V10 does not really surprise me. As I mentioned quite a while ago our local transit agency went with Chevy cut-aways for the small buses because of the factory support of the propane option. I wonder if there will be a "preferred" propane upfitter for Ford down the line,, because the way they are going now, they are not taken very seriously. Can't believe Ford would abandon this "alternative green fuel". So perhaps the V-10 is toast but is there a V-8 on the horizon? Remember when the 429 LPG was a factory installation at KTP? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 If true, I think it may have to do with the V-10 being phased out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 Or because Ford is dropping the V10 soon? Ha! You and your sneaky edit. I hit quote, typed my message, and I noticed the text you added had shown up in the quote just as I hit post. . lol...thought of that as soon as I hit the post button...that is why I edited it... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 (edited) PS....this is by far my all time favorite thread in all of BON-dom. Edited February 22, 2017 by twintornados 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 PS....this is by far my all time favorite thread in all of BON-dom. I think it's also the longest outside mlhm5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 PS....this is by far my all time favorite thread in all of BON-dom. I think it's also the longest outside mlhm5. Joe '76- congrats-you started it- and me too my sentiments as well - we always have a consistent "readership" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hwyman3 Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 I've enjoyed this thread! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 12 mos YTD sales stats Class 3-4-5 FCA continues to be leader at 43.33% of Market followed by Ford at 34.26% Class 6- Ford leads at 36.46% with F'liner second at 29.73% and Nav 3rd at 19.01%, Hino 4th at 10.84% December Ford had a huge month at 51.3% AGAIN- anyone at OAP have a ratio gas/diesel? Was this big December more U-hauls?? Class 7 F'liner top dog with huge 47.53%. Nav 2nd at 27.73. Ford a dismal 5th out of 6 at 4.26% December Ford at 3.45% Again looking at Ford marketing? Full page ad in truck rags December-the message? "Upfitting now Uplifting" "Ford has clean cab to axle frames with no protrusions making body installs easy"-or words to that effect. DUH! Let me guess-last class 6 or 7 chassis without clean rails was.....Studebaker?? Well at least we haven't been reading about Ford tractors....." suitable for towing" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Saw my first F-650 cutaway bus the other day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 12 mos YTD sales stats Class 3-4-5 FCA continues to be leader at 43.33% of Market followed by Ford at 34.26% Class 6- Ford leads at 36.46% with F'liner second at 29.73% and Nav 3rd at 19.01%, Hino 4th at 10.84% December Ford had a huge month at 51.3% AGAIN- anyone at OAP have a ratio gas/diesel? Was this big December more U-hauls?? Class 7 F'liner top dog with huge 47.53%. Nav 2nd at 27.73. Ford a dismal 5th out of 6 at 4.26% December Ford at 3.45% Again looking at Ford marketing? Full page ad in truck rags December-the message? "Upfitting now Uplifting" "Ford has clean cab to axle frames with no protrusions making body installs easy"-or words to that effect. DUH! Let me guess-last class 6 or 7 chassis without clean rails was.....Studebaker?? Well at least we haven't been reading about Ford tractors....." suitable for towing" Great job in class 6, but the numbers strongly suggest Ford will not be pushing into higher GVW's. Sure, if the sell a few heavy-spec. F-650's as class 7 F-750's with no effort, great. Being the low cost provider in class 6 is paying off for Ford, but I believe class 7 is less price-dependent and more specialized. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Great job in class 6, but the numbers strongly suggest Ford will not be pushing into higher GVW's. Sure, if the sell a few heavy-spec. F-650's as class 7 F-750's with no effort, great. Being the low cost provider in class 6 is paying off for Ford, but I believe class 7 is less price-dependent and more specialized. Agree-as I said in an earlier post their current effort in 7 is not indicative of a game plan to expand the business. Sad because I still say the 750 COULD compete if it offered an additional power train option beyond the Power Stroke/ Torqueshift or the V-10/Torqueshift. Is the 750 cab competitive with say the M2 fliner or Navistar in class 7? Not in all applications where the driver is in the truck all day long-like a P & D tractor. But in applications where that is NOT the case-like a utility truck or boom truck or a dump truck it is a reasonable alternative, 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Agree-as I said in an earlier post their current effort in 7 is not indicative of a game plan to expand the business. Sad because I still say the 750 COULD compete if it offered an additional power train option beyond the Power Stroke/ Torqueshift or the V-10/Torqueshift. Is the 750 cab competitive with say the M2 fliner or Navistar in class 7? Not in all applications where the driver is in the truck all day long-like a P & D tractor. But in applications where that is NOT the case-like a utility truck or boom truck or a dump truck it is a reasonable alternative, . Gonna agree with you here....F750 needs a bigger engine option....Ford HAS options, **cough-cough Ecotorq** one wonders why they don't use them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 . Gonna agree with you here....F750 needs a bigger engine option....Ford HAS options, **cough-cough Ecotorq** one wonders why they don't use them. . Gonna agree with you here....F750 needs a bigger engine option....Ford HAS options, **cough-cough Ecotorq** one wonders why they don't use them. TT- the only thing I can think of is that there is an EPA certification issue with these engines (some have suggested the cost of certification is very high) or there is some licensing issue with Fiat Power Technology which I believe licenses Ford Otosan to produce these engines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stray Kat Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 TT- the only thing I can think of is that there is an EPA certification issue with these engines (some have suggested the cost of certification is very high) or there is some licensing issue with Fiat Power Technology which I believe licenses Ford Otosan to produce these engines. Wait! Are you saying the Otosan diesels are not Ford designed? If not that sucks. I'm a proud Ford guy. I think the engine should always match the name on the hood or tailgate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevensecondsuv Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 (edited) RE: Dropping the V10 Another data point is that Ford went through the trouble of fitting the 6.2 in the e series for 2017. If they are going to do away with the V10, you have to wonder what they're going to replace it with. They still sell an awful lot of the things between f-series c/c and e-series cutaways, not to mention f-650 and Ford power products (they're quite common in irrigation applications). They can't just go diesel-only as the gas engine is a big sales driver for many of these trucks. Having tried both in a superduty, the 6.2 is not really an full replacement for the v10, especially in the heavier trucks, despite the similar power ratings. The V10 makes it with about 1000 less RPM which contributes greatly to driveability in the heavier trucks. I think that's why the pickups get 6.2 while the heavier trucks get the V10. So what do you all think we'll see? A stroked boss? Going to the 4.165" 5.4/6.8 mod motor stroke would yield 6.9l with the existing 102mm bore. However I seem to remember hearing that the boss had some durability issues arise during testing that prevented bigger/HD version from being produced. Another option would be an ecoboost of some sort. The 3.5 raptor motor envelopes the V10 numbers, but I just don't see it in a heavy truck application. Perhaps the rumored 5.0eb? The other issue is that turbocharging a gas motor doesn't really save any fuel in a high duty cycle application, so the only advantage to using an ecoboost would be simplified production. Another option would be an improved V10. They could do the 5.0 bore technology on the existing motor and come up with a 7.4L, with a conservative 400 HP / 500 TQ. There are also ways to add vct if they really wanted to. But this option doesn't eliminate the V10, so the only advantage would be more power. Thoughts? Whatever they come up with should have implications for the super duty pickups. While the '17 6.2 is great, it'd be nice to see a more capable gas option the same way the V10 was a $600 upgrade over the 5.4 in the old days. Edited February 23, 2017 by Sevensecondsuv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 I think Ford will develop the 'Boss' into an engine suitable for heavier applications. Having seen the insides of both engines, I can tell you for what it's worth the current 6.2L's internals look quite robust, while the V-10's (and any other Triton) look like economy car parts. I think that Ford will likely resolve whatever cooling (?) issues the 6.2L has in high GVW applications and replace the V-10 with it. Seems to be that was the original plan! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 Another data point is that Ford went through the trouble of fitting the 6.2 in the e series for 2017. If they are going to do away with the V10 It seems to me that fitting the 6.2 in the E-Series was less about the V10 and more about finally putting the 5.4 out to pasture. Once the Expedition and Navigator dropped the 5.4 for the EB35, there likely wasn't enough volume left to justify keeping it in the E-Series, particularly given that the van itself was largely replaced with the Transit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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