Harley Lover Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 Haven't seen this posted, thought it would make for interesting conversation: http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2013/11/2015-ford-f-150-to-drop-fully-boxed-frame.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 Interesting development if true, I am left wondering what changes will be made to the frame structure to maintain or increase strength... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 Interesting development if true, I am left wondering what changes will be made to the frame structure to maintain or increase strength... My guess would be same route used with class 6,7,8 trucks. frame strength is a function of size/design and steel yield strength. You can have a huge LOOKING frame but if it is built with say low strength steel (say 50,000 PSI steel) it can have LESS strength than a smaller (and lighter) frame built with 80,000 or 120,000 PSI steel. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 My guess would be same route used with class 6,7,8 trucks. frame strength is a function of size/design and steel yield strength. You can have a huge LOOKING frame but if it is built with say low strength steel (say 50,000 PSI steel) it can have LESS strength than a smaller (and lighter) frame built with 80,000 or 120,000 PSI steel. Prediction would be hydroformed fully boxed from radiator support to under the cab structure, then high strength "C" channel from rear of cab to rear of truck...it would give them (if you will excuse the unintended pun) flexibility in the manufacturing process for multiple length chassis designs to use common hydroformed front frame structures...Those high strength rear "C" sections may also migrate over to Transit FS in the cab/chassis using a common attachment point from "C" section to cab section connections....interesting times indeed to be a design engineer at FoMoCo... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
97svtgoin05gt Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 Fully boxed frame was always a big marketing point for them. I hope they have a great reason for changing direction. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 Fully boxed frame was always a big marketing point for them. I hope they have a great reason for changing direction. A couple hundred pounds, maybe? Like you said it was marketing, but at the same time, if they can get a 25 MPG highway F-150 out of the deal, I think that would be a even bigger plus then a fully boxed frame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grbeck Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 Fully boxed frame was always a big marketing point for them. I hope they have a great reason for changing direction. That's my concern, too. Perhaps with increased use of high-strength steel, a fully boxed frame isn't needed anymore? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 Fully boxed frame was always a big marketing point for them. I hope they have a great reason for changing direction. They'll simply pretend they never marketed that feature in the past. Customers have short memories anyway. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 (edited) I don't think they'll depart if it weakens the frame. One of the things to consider in this pickup 'arms-race' is that people who use the full capacity of a truck and then some will not respond well if the new truck they just purchased is incapable of performing tasks that their older truck performed. Expectations that Ford will significantly reduce capability for some other purpose seem unlikely to be met. And, of course, you market the change this way: "The frame of the new Ford F150 with Nanoreinforced Super Steel (or some other nonsense) is 25% stiffer than the previous F150", and don't even talk about the fully boxed frame (which Ford hasn't really talked about much since both GM and Dodge now have the same feature). Edited November 15, 2013 by RichardJensen 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NLPRacing Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 So the new F150 will have a similar frame to the Super Duty, makes sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 if, if, its somehow modular, could there be different cab back frames dependent on capcities?.....perhaps the max Trailer tow and heavy duty payload packages will remain fully boxed?..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moosetang Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 Have we gotten any indication what steel the new frame is using? If Ford is gettting dramatic with their use of AHSS they might be able to sell the the rigidity as close to par while being whole lot lighter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackinaw Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 That's my concern, too. Perhaps with increased use of high-strength steel, a fully boxed frame isn't needed anymore? Maybe not. They had the chief engineer of the new Corvette on Autoline After Hours last week. I found it interesting that the frame of the new C7 'Vette varies in thickness depending on how much load it may get. I believe he said that low-stress areas of the frame are only one centimeter thick while high-stress areas are ten centimeters thick (from memory, so don't quote me on this). Ford may do the same with the new F-150. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 Maybe not. They had the chief engineer of the new Corvette on Autoline After Hours last week. I found it interesting that the frame of the new C7 'Vette varies in thickness depending on how much load it may get. I believe he said that low-stress areas of the frame are only one centimeter thick while high-stress areas are ten centimeters thick (from memory, so don't quote me on this). Ford may do the same with the new F-150. BTW, He meant millimeters not centimeters. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 if, if, its somehow modular, could there be different cab back frames dependent on capcities?.....perhaps the max Trailer tow and heavy duty payload packages will remain fully boxed?..... Sounds right, frame rigidity is the key here, not whether the frame is a box or a C section. The box is easier to guarantee rigidity but no reason to completely dismiss parts of the frme being C section - if designed correctly. I get the feeling that other companies designed in chassis flex to improve comfort in their trucks but maybe buers prioritize that perceived strngth of a rigid frame as more important, Ford has hte job ahead of them to convince everyone that they can lighten F150 without hurting its perception - fingers crossed they do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 All dimensions and materials being equal, a box section is stiffer than a C-channel. If you change the dimensions, or increase the strength of the steel, all bets are off. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan1 Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 Does this put a final nail in the coffin of the next gen Super Duty ever going fully boxed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 Does this put a final nail in the coffin of the next gen Super Duty ever going fully boxed? Does it need one? The reason SD hasn't changed from C Channel is because it makes fitting out trucks with custom rears much easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lfeg Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 Also, one thing to keep in mind about boxed frames is the rust issue. It is difficult to properly coat the entire inside surface, and moisture and corrosive agents get trapped inside. And when using thinner gage AHSS, your corrosion allowance is much less. I see more corrosion problems with boxed frames (and boxed sections of frames) than channel frames once things get past 5 years old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 Does this put a final nail in the coffin of the next gen Super Duty ever going fully boxed? In trucks like Superduty and on up, I don't think you will see them ever going to a fully boxed frame. Does it need one? The reason SD hasn't changed from C Channel is because it makes fitting out trucks with custom rears much easier. Exactly why E-Series will live on in cut-a-way cab/chassis in heavier versions...i.e.:E-250/350/450 etc etc. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if Ford designed a version of Transit cab to be fitted on an E-Series style chassis in a few years.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev-Mo Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 Key phrase in article - "...similar to what rivals do..." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 Key phrase in article - "...similar to what rivals do..." What? Both GM and Chrysler use boxed frames. http://media.gm.com/media/us/en/gmc/vehicles/sierra/2013.html http://www.allpar.com/model/ram/2013-ram.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan1 Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 This will put an end to the retorts that if the F-150 fully boxed frame is so good why isn't the Super Duty and the idiots who say they will never buy a new Super Duty unless has an all new fully boxed like GM. Ford will have the most most capable, smoothest riding, and most upfitter friendly frames. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 Nothing specifically wrong with a properly made box frame with drainage holes in all the right places...but if Ford has found a way to make the frame lighter AND stronger, boxed or not, it will be a hit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev-Mo Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 What? Both GM and Chrysler use boxed frames. http://media.gm.com/media/us/en/gmc/vehicles/sierra/2013.html http://www.allpar.com/model/ram/2013-ram.html Apparently, the Tundra is the rival referenced in the article. Don't shoot me, I just quoted the article. http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://toyota-alabama.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/triple-tech.jpg&imgrefurl=http://toyota-alabama.com/toyota-truck-triple-tech-frame-advantage/&h=722&w=756&sz=121&tbnid=ZeVHfagecG776M:&tbnh=97&tbnw=102&zoom=1&usg=__57rDABdtewcWvYuxNNFob3C8oWU=&docid=YYTiWhmVfaLm6M&sa=X&ei=4oOKUsTwOKbL2gWNzIGgCw&ved=0CE8Q9QEwAw 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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