twintornados Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Ford Utility Interceptor Autoblog article Bu...bu...bu...bu...but, when Crown Victoria is discontinued, Ford is just giving away the cop car business to Dodge and Chevrolet and their rear drive cop cars.... Now what is the reply from the Panther Mafia??....crickets!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 verall, the brand's police sales were up 48 percent That's the money quote right there... PIU+PIS > Panther ; that is despite quite a bit of Panther stockpiling the year before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chucky2 Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 To be fair though, had Ford simply taken the late Crown Vic, modernized the powertrain options (3.5/.7 NA, 3.5 EB, 5.0L V-8, perhaps 2.3 EB and/or 2.7L EB down the road), would that have been more desireable to fleet than PIx? PIU with AWD I'm sure is pretty desirable in the winter weather climates. But I'd wager that a modernized CV with a 3.5/.7L NA or 3.5EB in the non-winter weather states would be a pretty nice compromise to have. Existing plant and platform was there, so no real changes. Then again, Taurus/MKS was there too. Personally if I was spending a lot of time in a car as LE, rather have the upgraded CV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Existing plant and platform was there, so no real changes. That's the problem - you would have had to keep an entire plant open just to produce fleet vehicles. The real savings on Panther isn't just losing a platform - it's closing a plant with low utilization. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Well I still haven't changed my avatar. And I do like my SHO. And as a stockholder, I think its great that the Exp PI and Taurus are doing well. Just hope they hold up the CV's rep for low cost per mile and durability. No doubt from a pure business case, can't argue with that volume going through CAP just pounding fixed costs for that plant down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANTAUS Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Since next Taurus will be a stretched Fusion platform, thats ONE less D2/3 being produced. And same will probably become of the MKS. The Flex and failed MKT will probably not be continued much longer, leaving the Explorer as the sole user of that platform, will that have enough sales make it sustainable though ? I mean, I just feel bad for all these agencies that are stockpiling parts for a vehicle that might not be around in it's current platform (Taurus) for much longer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 To be fair though, had Ford simply taken the late Crown Vic, modernized the powertrain options (3.5/.7 NA, 3.5 EB, 5.0L V-8, perhaps 2.3 EB and/or 2.7L EB down the road), would that have been more desireable to fleet than PIx? PIU with AWD I'm sure is pretty desirable in the winter weather climates. But I'd wager that a modernized CV with a 3.5/.7L NA or 3.5EB in the non-winter weather states would be a pretty nice compromise to have. Existing plant and platform was there, so no real changes. Then again, Taurus/MKS was there too. Personally if I was spending a lot of time in a car as LE, rather have the upgraded CV. Apparently side impact regs would require a whole new car, so it was cheaper to take the Taurus/Explorer and up-grade as necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 I mean, I just feel bad for all these agencies that are stockpiling parts for a vehicle that might not be around in it's current platform (Taurus) for much longer? Maybe, maybe not. The tooling exists, and if the civilian Taurus moves on, the PI could stay with the current top hat and platform. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 I mean, I just feel bad for all these agencies that are stockpiling parts for a vehicle that might not be around in it's current platform (Taurus) for much longer? What D3-specific parts would they be stockpiling? It seems to me that most of the parts they'd be stockpiling would be drivetrain-related, and those should be interchangeable with the successor to the PI/PIU. Given the attention Ford paid to making sure that departments would be able to bring their expensive electronics packages (comms, etc) from the CV to the PI/PIU, I'd say it's a safe bet that they won't leave the departments flapping in the breeze when the PI/PIU platform change inevitably comes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fgts Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Ford Utility Interceptor Autoblog article Bu...bu...bu...bu...but, when Crown Victoria is discontinued, Ford is just giving away the cop car business to Dodge and Chevrolet and their rear drive cop cars.... Now what is the reply from the Panther Mafia??....crickets!!!! Before poping the beer cans the Charger out-sold the Taurus and the PIs dont sale near what the CV did. Ford holds 49% of the market vs 75-80% during the CV days. Caprice suffers from high price and limited supply but still out-sold the police Impala. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fgts Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Maybe, maybe not. The tooling exists, and if the civilian Taurus moves on, the PI could stay with the current top hat and platform. There's nothing special with D3, the D3 is out the door and replaced when the CD3+ platform is avalible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papilgee4evaeva Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Before poping the beer cans the Charger out-sold the Taurus and the PIs dont sale near what the CV did. Ford holds 49% of the market vs 75-80% during the CV days. Caprice suffers from high price and limited supply but still out-sold the police Impala. And? Since next Taurus will be a stretched Fusion platform, thats ONE less D2/3 being produced. And same will probably become of the MKS. The Flex and failed MKT will probably not be continued much longer, leaving the Explorer as the sole user of that platform, will that have enough sales make it sustainable though ? I mean, I just feel bad for all these agencies that are stockpiling parts for a vehicle that might not be around in it's current platform (Taurus) for much longer? The platform's pretty much paid for at this point, I believe. And the crucial difference between the PI and PIU is that they won't be the only vehicles keeping the lights on in Chicago like the CVPI was at St. Thomas. (If someone can correct me on that, please do so.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 The real benefit in Ford's platform reduction was that it was able to close STAP, Louisville and St Louis but retain a fair chunk of that volume on Chicago products. The surviving plant's efficiency went through the roof and Ford saved a pile on not having to develop an new CV or BOF Explorer, D3 vehicles took over. It not just what Ford makes these days, it's also what they don't have to anymore and the money that move saved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Since next Taurus will be a stretched Fusion platform, thats ONE less D2/3 being produced. And same will probably become of the MKS. The Flex and failed MKT will probably not be continued much longer, leaving the Explorer as the sole user of that platform, will that have enough sales make it sustainable though ? I mean, I just feel bad for all these agencies that are stockpiling parts for a vehicle that might not be around in it's current platform (Taurus) for much longer? The Explorer has only been on the market since very end of 2010..still haven't gotten a MCE for it yet and I'd expect it to be around till at least 2018 CY. The biggest indication of what is happening with it is to watch what is going on at Oakville...the new Edge should be launching late this year, but once the Flex and MKT wind down, it should be interesting what they do with the Chicago plant down road, since the Taurus and MKS is getting moved to Flat Rock, once the Mustang gets flexed into the Fusion lineup. One thing I did have pop into my head thinking about this, is it might be possible for the nex gen Explorer to launch as a Lincoln product before new Explorer hits the market, given the fact that Oakville will have space to build it (since it will most likely be a LWB Edge)..but then again Ford could suprise us with the S-Max or Galaxy too in Oakville. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANTAUS Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 I was thinking of the same thing as well, for the "next" Explorer platform to debut under Lincoln. That way the perception of "Its just a tarted up Ford" (as it's been with the Edge/MKX, Fusion/MKZ, Escape/MKC), this way it looks exclusive for a 2 years as a Lincoln then shared down to a Ford. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 I was thinking of the same thing as well, for the "next" Explorer platform to debut under Lincoln. That way the perception of "Its just a tarted up Ford" (as it's been with the Edge/MKX, Fusion/MKZ, Escape/MKC), this way it looks exclusive for a 2 years as a Lincoln then shared down to a Ford. Didn't help the MKS which debuted before the Taurus. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chucky2 Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 That's the problem - you would have had to keep an entire plant open just to produce fleet vehicles. The real savings on Panther isn't just losing a platform - it's closing a plant with low utilization. Isn't that what is supposed to happen in CAP? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chucky2 Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Apparently side impact regs would require a whole new car, so it was cheaper to take the Taurus/Explorer and up-grade as necessary. I'm thinking they could have added side impact airbags to the CV, it's got the room. Then again, what would it be like vs Taurus after it was retrofitted with side impact airbags...probably only Ford knows... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Isn't that what is supposed to happen in CAP? Not long term...the Explorer is going to be on its current platform for at least another 4-5 years. They aren't going to be making the Explorer/PIU/PI for the next 10 years there...I'd say all of them will be replaced with a new platform by 2019 at the latest. Police Depts are just going to accept the fact that they aren't going to be able to use the same equipment (by transfering it) on the same car for the next 10-15 years...plus can't you use some of the same fittings from the CVPI on the PI anyways? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Didn't help the MKS which debuted before the Taurus. It only debuted before the redesigned Taurus. Wasn't too difficult to tell that it still used the same platform as the older Taurus and Five Hundred. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Wasn't too difficult to tell that it still used the same platform as the older Taurus and Five Hundred. How could you possibly tell that just by looking at it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Police Depts are just going to accept the fact that they aren't going to be able to use the same equipment (by transfering it) on the same car for the next 10-15 years...plus can't you use some of the same fittings from the CVPI on the PI anyways? The electronics packages are what are expensive on cop cars, and Ford took a lot of care to make sure they could be (relatively) easily transferred from the CVPIs to the new PI and PIU. There's no reason to believe that they would not do the same for the next iteration of the PI/PIU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 How could you possibly tell that just by looking at it? By borrowing BORG's X-Ray glasses... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 How could you possibly tell that just by looking at it? Both are large FWD/AWD Ford vehicles with similar proportions and overhangs. Anyone remotely familiar with how vehicle architectures work would be able to assume they are probably related. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
630land Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Some opined that the D3 was a 'huge flop' and Ford should have killed it in 2007. But, now the D3 is paying off it's bills, and then some. Most cops drive an SUV as family car, so they are used to driving them and don't care about 'traditional' BOF cars. And the old Mopar squads were unibody from 1960. So this idea that the "only vehicle that can be a cop car is a Panther CV" is gone with the wind. Explorer can carry more gear, is roomier, and doesnt need a V8 sucking gas when idling, which is what the vehicles end up doing most of the time. The days of "Sherrif Roscoe" needing to chase the "Dukes" with a V8 RWD big car are long gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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