NAIAS 2017

[tbone]

I don't see the point of doing a secret press unveiling to show it some time later/after the show when you could have just unveiled it at the show rather than a press conference full of nothing and a PowerPoint that says "bronco and ranger coming!!!"

I agree, that's pretty lame, and I don't understand the purpose of that. I suppose it's a way to build some hype without showing your hand yet.

[silvrsvt]

I don't see the point of doing a secret press unveiling to show it some time later/after the show when you could have just unveiled it at the show rather than a press conference full of nothing and a PowerPoint that says "bronco and ranger coming!!!"

 

 

Yeah I'm a bit confused as to why Ford didn't have anything new show off, unless you count 2018 F-150, which was shown off before the show started anyways. They did a full court press about automation and electrification also, but not much in way of real product.

 

The Ranger and Bronco where "paper launches"

 

Chicago really isn't known for new products outside of years ago Ford using it to show off new SVT products. NYIAS I guess will show off the new Navigator, since Lincoln sells well in the Tri-state area.

 

So when are they going to show off the restyled Mustang? Expedition?

 

Further down the road (LA Auto show at the end of the year)I guess we'll see Ranger or Concept and maybe the new Fiesta/Focus, but I expect to see them in the EU first since thats were the main market is.

[tbone]

It is a bit concerning that they haven't shown the Expedition yet considering it is supposed to be a 2018 model. I wonder if it's delayed.

[rmc523]

 

 

Yeah I'm a bit confused as to why Ford didn't have anything new show off, unless you count 2018 F-150, which was shown off before the show started anyways. They did a full court press about automation and electrification also, but not much in way of real product.

 

The Ranger and Bronco where "paper launches"

 

Chicago really isn't known for new products outside of years ago Ford using it to show off new SVT products. NYIAS I guess will show off the new Navigator, since Lincoln sells well in the Tri-state area.

 

So when are they going to show off the restyled Mustang? Expedition?

 

Further down the road (LA Auto show at the end of the year)I guess we'll see Ranger or Concept and maybe the new Fiesta/Focus, but I expect to see them in the EU first since thats were the main market is.

 

I won't even count the F-150, as they debuted it before, and drove it on stage for about 30 seconds before driving it away. I think someone posted the video in this thread.....I watched the first few minutes of it and then turned it off knowing they weren't debuting anything. Frankly, it's an auto show.....people go there/are interested in them to see the latest models revealed/in the flesh, not to hear some presentation saying what they're doing for the next 5 years. That's not to say they can't include that in their overall presentation, but damn, include a debut with it.....especially when we know they have vehicles set to debut....not as if it's a year where nothing lines up to debut.

 

---

 

With Navigator seemingly set for NY, I'm wondering if Mustang and Expedition will be revealed on their own/not at any show? If Mustang had a private media event last night, that seems likely.

[akirby]

I understand the desire to have stand alone product reveals where they don't get lost in the sea of dozens of other new vehicles at the auto show. But good grief show SOMETHING at the biggest and most prestigious auto show of the year.

[rmc523]

I understand the desire to have stand alone product reveals where they don't get lost in the sea of dozens of other new vehicles at the auto show. But good grief show SOMETHING at the biggest and most prestigious auto show of the year.

 

I mean, that's why I figured they revealed the F-150 early....so it wouldn't get lost in Ford's own debuts, let alone the others at the show!

[630land]

The Detroit auto show is not the "biggest* and most prestigious" . Pete D ripped it to shreds today, calling it a "regional dealer show". While downtown Detroit is making a comeback, the region as a whole has fallen out of the top 10 metro areas, and it's pretty much a 'small Midwest city' like Cleveland.

 

*Chicago has the "biggest" show footprint.

[Anthony]

Has the 2018 Fiesta been shown in a US Auto show yet? We've already seen the EU version.

[BORG]

The Detroit auto show is not the "biggest* and most prestigious" . Pete D ripped it to shreds today, calling it a "regional dealer show". While downtown Detroit is making a comeback, the region as a whole has fallen out of the top 10 metro areas, and it's pretty much a 'small Midwest city' like Cleveland.

 

*Chicago has the "biggest" show footprint.

 

 

Yeah...he's full of it. It's an industry event and it's definitely the most significant for the press and industry because they work and live here. Chicago is large but not more significant because nobody but the larger public turnout cares about that one. Ford in particular doesn't like to do unveilings at AutoShows anymore which is why they always get a jump or do a standalone event.

 

This is an extremely slow year however, especially for Ford and Lincoln which is why this one is more skippable than usual. And there are virtually no significant concepts, sports cars, or any other crowd pleasers other than what we've seen in years past.

 

BTW, this isn't the first time Ford has embargoed an unveiling right in the middle of an AutoShow and not shown it at that Auto Show.

Edited January 11, 2017 by BORG

[silvrsvt]

The Detroit auto show is not the "biggest* and most prestigious" . Pete D ripped it to shreds today, calling it a "regional dealer show". While downtown Detroit is making a comeback, the region as a whole has fallen out of the top 10 metro areas, and it's pretty much a 'small Midwest city' like Cleveland.

 

*Chicago has the "biggest" show footprint.

 

 

Chicago has the biggest footprint sq ft-wise, but Detroit is still the most prestigious since its the backyard of what was the Big 3....but that would also explain why its shrinking. Chicago hasn't had any spectacular reveals in a long time..I can't think of any recently.

 

Years ago most major manufactures never showed off new product at the NY Auto (which is in one of the biggest metro areas in the US), but that has changed over the past 7 years or so. It seems the go to place for Lincoln.

 

The LA Auto show has become more important in the past couple years also...its the official start of Auto Show season, at least in the US.

 

All this shows is the demographics are changing from what they've been for the past 50 years or so...Detroit is going to keep losing its appeal as time goes on as manufacturing base diversifies out of the mid-west.

[BORG]

Hell, I'm moving to LA so that show is going to be pretty important to me, haha.

 

I will say that there is always a tremendous amount to see if you only attend one event a year, so much happens throughout the year. Just last year Lincoln had the MKZ and Continental but none of them were actually open, and the Navigator Concept is there which is still going to be a show-stopper for the Detroit crowd.

 

Ford has the EcoSport...blech...and the new F-150...meh...but a great exhibit with their increasing selection of more exotic vehicles (GT, Raptor, STs, etc.).

 

My favorite exhibits are always the Germans, nothing makes the gap between Detroit and Germany more clear than when you share a show floor with them. I actually think it's a terrible idea to put Lincoln and Caddy next to BMW/Mercedes/Audi because they just can't hold a candle. But Lincoln does a great job distinguishing itself as the brand with the full luxury experience the moment you walk into their cozy (if aging) art-gallery exhibit which feels a little like a sanctuary.

Edited January 11, 2017 by BORG

[rmc523]

My favorite exhibits are always the Germans, nothing makes the gap between Detroit and Germany more clear than when you share a show floor with them. I actually think it's a terrible idea to put Lincoln and Caddy next to BMW/Mercedes/Audi because they just can't hold a candle. But Lincoln does a great job distinguishing itself as the brand with the full luxury experience the moment you walk into their cozy (if aging) art-gallery exhibit which feels a little like a sanctuary.

 

What makes them so much better?

[akirby]

 

What makes them so much better?

 

They do stuff that he likes as opposed to stuff he doesn't like. Because that's all that is important.

[jasonj80]

 

They do stuff that he likes as opposed to stuff he doesn't like. Because that's all that is important.

 

Well and pretty much the majority of luxury car buyer likes. There are huge differences, which on the show floor become glairing. Get into a MKX or XT5, then look at a GLE, X5, RX or MDX. There is no comparison in building material, build quality, drive ability or comfort or noise. Same is true with the X3/Q5 and MKC. Lincoln is improving, but it isn't at the German levels. I think they will slowly get there but it takes time. The Technology the Germans have is amazing.

 

[silvrsvt]

 

Well and pretty much the majority of luxury car buyer likes. There are huge differences, which on the show floor become glairing. Get into a MKX or XT5, then look at a GLE, X5, RX or MDX. There is no comparison in building material, build quality, drive ability or comfort or noise. Same is true with the X3/Q5 and MKC. Lincoln is improving, but it isn't at the German levels. I think they will slowly get there but it takes time. The Technology the Germans have is amazing.

 

 

But how much of that is from "Brand Cache" that makes it appear to be better because of the name and not the actual product. Like I said before, the Mustang is the best selling sports car in markets its competing (in price also) with the Audi TT or GT-R, which are considered more "refined" by the American Automotive Press.

 

It becomes a point of diminishing returns at times because of that.

[jasonj80]

 

But how much of that is from "Brand Cache" that makes it appear to be better because of the name and not the actual product. Like I said before, the Mustang is the best selling sports car in markets its competing (in price also) with the Audi TT or GT-R, which are considered more "refined" by the American Automotive Press.

 

It becomes a point of diminishing returns at times because of that.

 

I can tell you sitting in them from a materials standpoint, and closing the door at the loud show it is night and day, that's why they have that brand cache they have. The Lexus RX itself almost outsold the eniter Lincoln line in 2016.

 

The Mustang outsold them in March of 2016 and bested them by less than 100 units, it was also a brand new car that had never officially sold in Europe.

Edited January 11, 2017 by jasonj80

[akirby]

 

Well and pretty much the majority of luxury car buyer likes. There are huge differences, which on the show floor become glairing. Get into a MKX or XT5, then look at a GLE, X5, RX or MDX. There is no comparison in building material, build quality, drive ability or comfort or noise. Same is true with the X3/Q5 and MKC. Lincoln is improving, but it isn't at the German levels. I think they will slowly get there but it takes time. The Technology the Germans have is amazing.

 

 

We did just that - we sat in every midsized crossover at the auto show and the new MKX was very competitive. In fact it was the only one we really liked. Granted we didn't take a test drive in all of them and we skipped Lexus because of the hideous exterior. But I think the new MKX and MKC are in the same league as other similarly priced vehicles from Germany. The MKX is actually quieter than almost every other utility on the road including the German luxury brands. And the 2.7T certainly puts it on par with power. A lot of the rest is subjective.

 

But I'm not arguing that point so much as saying that the things that Borg thinks makes them inferior are sometimes illogical, contradictory or just make you scratch your head.

[rmc523]

 

They do stuff that he likes as opposed to stuff he doesn't like. Because that's all that is important.

 

I am genuinely interested to hear his thoughts though. Pictures would help as well, as while I've been to NAIAS twice, it's been years, and displays change.

 

 

Well and pretty much the majority of luxury car buyer likes. There are huge differences, which on the show floor become glairing. Get into a MKX or XT5, then look at a GLE, X5, RX or MDX. There is no comparison in building material, build quality, drive ability or comfort or noise. Same is true with the X3/Q5 and MKC. Lincoln is improving, but it isn't at the German levels. I think they will slowly get there but it takes time. The Technology the Germans have is amazing.

 

 

When you really look at the other vehicles in the segment, I don't find BMW or Acura interiors any nicer. Mercedes also depends on the model. Comfort/noise I'll disagree with as well. Materials, build quality, and drivability are items which I can see your argument.

 

 

I can tell you sitting in them from a materials standpoint, and closing the door at the loud show it is night and day, that's why they have that brand cache they have. The Lexus RX itself almost outsold the eniter Lincoln line in 2016.

 

The Mustang outsold them in March of 2016 and bested them by less than 100 units, it was also a brand new car that had never officially sold in Europe.

 

I'll also counter with the fact that vehicles/brands like Lexus (RX), BMW, and Mercedes didn't get there overnight. And looking at Lincoln's last generation to this current stable, it's easy to see the massive improvement, so with time, the vehicles will get to the levels of the other brands. I also think the allure/image of these brands are better/higher than what is actually there. Things in those models are overlooked, whereas Lincoln can be lambasted against for the same thing. For example, if a Lincoln has some black plastic around say the radio buttons, articles will complain about the black plastic......meanwhile when a BMW has the same plastic covering more of the dash than the Lincoln, they don't even mention it, or talk about how it's "high quality plastic." Now, that's not to say there isn't room for improvement at Lincoln, there definitely is. They'll get there with time. It'll be interesting to see how the production Navigator looks inside and out materials wise and what not.

[fuzzymoomoo]

I haven't been this year since it's not open to the public yet, but the Ford and Lincoln displays have been the same for the last 3 years.

[akirby]

 

For example, if a Lincoln has some black plastic around say the radio buttons, articles will complain about the black plastic......meanwhile when a BMW has the same plastic covering more of the dash than the Lincoln, they don't even mention it, or talk about how it's "high quality plastic."

 

THIS!!!!!!!!

 

There are real differences in some cases but so much of these types of complaints just aren't logical.

Edited January 11, 2017 by akirby

[atomcat68]

 

Well and pretty much the majority of luxury car buyer likes. There are huge differences, which on the show floor become glairing. Get into a MKX or XT5, then look at a GLE, X5, RX or MDX. There is no comparison in building material, build quality, drive ability or comfort or noise. Same is true with the X3/Q5 and MKC. Lincoln is improving, but it isn't at the German levels. I think they will slowly get there but it takes time. The Technology the Germans have is amazing.

 

 

The materials in the Cadillac has ben drawing praises even from the auto mags. I too am amazed at how much Caddy has improved! The drawback for Caddy is that the base engines aren't appropriate in comparison to the rest of the car.

 

Lincoln is a lower price point to BMW and MB as well as Lexus and Caddy. But still, I like the Lincoln as well.

 

Acrua to me seems to have cheap interiors. I actually think Honda is better. Infiniti never impressed me either.

[jpd80]

Perhaps this is an example of where Lincoln and Cadillac being different to each other allows both to prosper,

not meant as a cop out but more as recognizing where both are in their respective markets.

 

Lincoln is not as advanced in China but the use of shared platforms will enable it to pick up the pace and

build there as required. I could se them being in between Buick and Cadillac there which could be interesting

in the long run regards styling and interior package difference between China and North America...

[jasonj80]

I'll eat some crow, I went to the auto show yesterday morning and will say the Black Label MKX they had there interior was overall pretty equal to what BMW Audi and MB had on the floor, tight gabs and high quality material feel. After being there I really don't understand the love with Cadillac and the XT5/CT6 interior, XT5 was subpar to the Kia Sorrento that was on the floor and wasn't even as nice as the new Acadia or Envision. The XT6 has a long way to go with the new E-class, 5 series, and A6 and was easily bested by the black label Continental they had. Another thing I noticed was how nice the new VW Tiguan was in the interior but how horrid the Atlas interior was.

Also for Lincoln in China - in that market it is thought to be equal to Lexus in public perception.

[blksn8k2]

Hope this hasn't already been posted.

 

Pretty good Autoline interview with Raj Nair: