bzcat Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 (edited) So the most interesting info to come out of the Q1 earnings call was not that Ford is going to stop selling cars. In my opinion, there were two very interesting things that Jim Hackett and Jim Farley said. The first is that Hackett said Ford will have 16 battery electric vehicles by 2022. Not 16 electrified vehicles that includes hybrids and PHEV but 16 BEVs. Hackett has said something similar before but he always qualified it as electrified vehicles but this time, he went out there and confirmed that all 16 are BEVs The second is that Farley said Ford will have new derivatives of traditional SUVs to fill the niche left behind by departure of sedans. Here is what he said: Colin Langan Analyst, UBS Securities LLC Thanks for taking my question. Hi, how are you? Just to follow up on the comments about cars and cutting the majority of cars in the U.S., just thinking about there in that red bubble on slide 5 where they're losing money today or any color on how large those losses are? And any color on how should we expect are you going to close capacity? Do you expect to fill that void with all SUVs, any broad color there? James D. Farley Executive Vice President & President -Global Markets, Ford Motor Co. Sure, so thanks for the question. How we think about our lineup in North America especially is that we are developing incremental nameplates we don't have today and shifting the allocation of the capital portfolio to utility body styles, and there will be a variety, a growing variety, of those products.To give you a flavor, we'll have more authentic off-roaders, building our Built Ford Tough background like Bronco and other new nameplates we don't sell today. We will refresh our entire lineup of traditional crossovers and SUVs that everyone knows, like Explorer and Escape. And then we're going to be introducing and taking capital and redeploying it for also new silhouettes, products that give customers the utility benefits without the penalty of fuel economy. And they will be performance and active executed, so they'll be very emotional. So what you'll see is a whole portfolio of vehicles that will be much higher performing in terms of returns, much better for our brands, so a stronger business, and we will have a very diverse passenger car business. It just won't be traditional silhouetted sedans that tend to be commoditized. The transcript of the earnings call is here: http://s22.q4cdn.com/857684434/files/doc_financials/2018/1Q/TRANSCRIPT-Ford-Motor-Co.(F-US)-Q1-2018-Earnings-Call.pdf Hackett's 16 BEV comments is on page 6 Farley's silhouette talk is on page 12 So let's talk about what those 16 BEV is going to be... because it's not just MACH 1. Are they all going to be based on the E1 platform? And what kind of new silhouettes is Farley talking about. Is it as simple as we are going to see fastback version of all the existing utilities? And Active all the cars (starting with Focus)? Edited May 2, 2018 by bzcat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assimilator Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 (edited) I'm not sure how they are getting such a high BEV count but it's a struggle to count to 16 vehicle nameplates before they get to the car cull. I wonder if they are speaking globally under the Ford brand since BEVs will be more crucial to doing business in China while Hybrids will likely be a bigger part of their US and EU strategy. Transit Transit Connect F-Series Expedition Flex Explorer Edge Escape EcoSport Taurus Fusion Focus Fiesta Mustang C-Max Utility Interceptor Police Interceptor As for possible BEVs, I guess we have to break it down by core customers Midsize Utility BEV: Mach1 Compact Utility BEV Performance BEV: Mustang EV? Van BEV Autonomous Utility (Probably a version of one of the above) Most of the gas Trucks and Utilities are getting the HEV/PHEV treatment, not so sure we'll see BEV treatments across the board as well unless it's for fleet customers which I suspect is a big part of their strategy. I'm also under the impression that BEV is a separate scalable platform. This could be a range of similarly branded and visually distincitve products with Mach 1 as the tip of the spear. Edited May 2, 2018 by Assimilator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 dont forget the vehicle with an integrated Electric Motorcycle ( apparently Ford just applied for a patent ) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 I think Hackett was talking about hybrids, phevs and BEVs even though he said battery electric. I think he just misspoke with the terminology. Just getting 16 hybrids and phevs out the door by 2022 would be a huge accomplishment. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-dubz Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 Do car companies even make money on electric vehicles? 16 models seems like it would be quite expensive to develop/engineer. Would those make more money than the existing cars? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackinaw Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 Do car companies even make money on electric vehicles? Tesla sure doesn't. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harley Lover Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 I think Hackett was talking about hybrids, phevs and BEVs even though he said battery electric. I think he just misspoke with the terminology. I think you're right, that makes the most sense. It's also pretty sad that Hackett can't differentiate between the 3. The only other possibility is that he is including China-only joint development vehicles in that total. China is going to see many more EV's from Ford than we are. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harley Lover Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 dont forget the vehicle with an integrated Electric Motorcycle ( apparently Ford just applied for a patent ) Integrated Electric Motorcycle? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 Harley Lover...yep...just saw it yesterday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 China is going to see many more EV's from Ford than we are. Doesnt hurt that the Chinese government is incentivizing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 The only other possibility is that he is including China-only joint development vehicles in that total. China is going to see many more EV's from Ford than we are. This is true. That's the only other possible explanation that makes sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted May 3, 2018 Author Share Posted May 3, 2018 Hackett didn't mis-spoke. The earnings call is highly scripted affair and they are reading from prepared statement until they get to the Q&A part. Hackett said 16 battery electric vehicles in the opening remarks section so that's not a mistake. I think his statement points to BEV version of regular cars, in addition to the E1 platform. A few years ago, when we first learned of the dedicated EV architecture under Fields, it was assumed that Ford will not make another Focus EV like car... meaning adopting the conventional platform for BEVs. But seems like Hackett is gearing up for something different. Clearly, the E1 architecture may not be suitable for cheap low range EVs that will eventually dominate the market in places like China. We are probably looking at a bunch of Focus EV like vehicles again that will make up the bulk of that 16. So just random guess: 1. MACH 1 2. LWB MACH 1 3. "fleet version" of MACH 1 - i.e. the Uber mobile 4. Kuga/Escape EV 5. Focus EV 6. Short C utility EV 7. Transit Connect EV 8. Transit Custom EV (this one is confirmed already) 9. Transit EV 10-16 TBD projects with Mahindra and Zotye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trader 10 Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 16 BEV’s should be taken with a pound or two of salt. Ford doesn’t have a good record as far as delivering on promises made by CEO’s. A few years ago it was something like 20 high performance models by 2018 or so and I don’t think we ever got all of them; a few years prior to that it was class leading fuel economy for all new models and that quickly went by the wayside. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 I thought it was 12 performance vehicles by 2020. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/ford/2014/12/11/ford-performance-vehicles-division/20261041/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 weve had several performance vehicles....and more to come.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2b2 Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 I don't have time to listen to the call, but... Hackett didn't mis-spoke. The earnings call is highly scripted affair and they are reading from prepared statement until they get to the Q&A part. Hackett said 16 battery electric vehicles in the opening remarks section so that's not a mistake... imho, if it was said just once it was "going off script"..... .....or intern-speech-writer 16 BEV’s should be taken with a pound or two of salt. Ford doesn’t have a good record as far as delivering on promises made by CEO’s... imho, it's not really being "untethered to the truth" - just feeiing that we don't have any right to hold execs to what they say; ie the suits wouldn't even think of them as "promises" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 We know from past experiences with energi and hybrid models that Ford likes to count individual trims as another vehicle so the 16 could be swallowed up quickly across three or four EV types. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 16 BEV’s should be taken with a pound or two of salt. Ford doesn’t have a good record as far as delivering on promises made by CEO’s. A few years ago it was something like 20 high performance models by 2018 or so and I don’t think we ever got all of them; a few years prior to that it was class leading fuel economy for all new models and that quickly went by the wayside. That's because several of the models to fall under the performance banner haven't even debuted yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 And it was 12 by 2020 not 16 by 2018. Today: Fiesta ST Focus ST Focus RS Fusion ST Mustang GT350 Raptor GT Coming: Edge ST Mustang GT500 Explorer ST Mach 1 Expected/Possible Ranger Raptor Bronco Raptor? Escape ST? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harley Lover Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 (edited) So just random guess: 1. MACH 1 2. LWB MACH 1 3. "fleet version" of MACH 1 - i.e. the Uber mobile 4. Kuga/Escape EV 5. Focus EV 6. Short C utility EV 7. Transit Connect EV 8. Transit Custom EV (this one is confirmed already) 9. Transit EV 10-16 TBD projects with Mahindra and Zotye BZ, in which markets do you think they would sell this list ( I removed the TBD portion of the list)? What would the range be? If Ford can't make a go in the U.S. with the current (compromised packaging and range) Focus EV, why would Ford think a whole range of (compromised packaging and range) EV products would fare any better? Perhaps the Chinese market is more welcoming of lower mile range models due to shorter commutes/less usage? Edited May 3, 2018 by Harley Lover Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 , why would Ford think a whole range of (compromised packaging and range) EV products would fare any better? What the heck? The entire reason Ford is creating the new model E platform is to package the batteries just like Bolt and Tesla. It won’t have any packaging issues and it will have best in class range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harley Lover Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 What the heck? The entire reason Ford is creating the new model E platform is to package the batteries just like Bolt and Tesla. It won’t have any packaging issues and it will have best in class range. Can you read? He lists existing vehicles such as Kuga, Focus, etc.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harley Lover Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 Harley Lover...yep...just saw it yesterday. Details: http://www.autonews.com/article/20180501/OEM04/305019997/is-a-motorcycle-car-hybrid-in-fords-future-plans?profile=1657&cciid=email-autonews-carsconcepts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 Can you read? He lists existing vehicles such as Kuga, Focus, etc.. You must have missed it. All future platforms are being engineered with electrification in mind. That means more attention paid to packaging rather than cramming a battery into the trunk and calling it a day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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