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mackinaw

Ford/FCA Merger?

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From Automotive News.

TEL AVIV, Israel – The heads of Ford Motor Co. and Fiat-Chrysler Automobiles once broached the subject of a merger, although it was quickly decided such a tie-up wasn’t practical, according to Ford's Executive Chairman, Bill Ford.

"Sergio [Marchionne] and I had a number of dinners together talking about this and whether Ford and FCA would be a good fit," Ford told Automotive News on the sidelines of the EcoMotion mobility conference here on Tuesday.

He said the talks did not go anywhere, saying Ford had other priorities.

"The timing certainly wasn't ideal," he said. "We had our own issues and challenges ahead of us. I felt like it wasn’t going to help us solve those problems. If anything, it might have slowed us down."

https://www.autonews.com/automakers-suppliers/bill-ford-sergio-marchionne-discussed-ford-fca-tie

 

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Outside of Jeep, what does it really have to offer to Ford? Even Jeep isn't that great, since Ford is more or less gearing up to go after them with the Bronco, Bronco Scout and who knows what else.

Since seems like automakers are consolidating and since I have next to no clue how Chinese automakers are doing or how that would work, if Ford wanted to merge with someone, I think their best bet would be with the likes of Honda-they have small/mid-sized sedans and minivans that in the future, Ford won't have and they seem to have a good corporate fit with one another.  

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It never would have passed Anti-Trust for vehicle segments, the new company would have had to spin out / sell the Van and Truck market as they would own way to much of it, and that is where all the profit was going to be at. Once you take out the trucks FCA has Jeep which has great potential but it isn't something so special that Ford couldn't duplicate it, which it seems to be doing.

Going to be interesting to see who Ford ends up with in the long term, VW, Hyundai, PSA, Toyota, Mercedes, Tesla. The biggest issue is that Ford's organization doesn't like to play nice with others, it goes back to that corporate culture where they can't even play nice with each other in the same organization.

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I think this is a bad fit as there would be way too much product overlap with most of that being in the USA.

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The only way Ford can work with anyone is the family selling out to the highest bidder. Anyone with the chops to buy them will want control.

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Why would Ford want the POS that is FCA?  They have had more partners than a $2 hooker and each and every one of them has failed. 

Ford can do performance and has a much better brand image in Mustang than the Dodge stuff.

Ram trucks, while nice interiors are junk the whole way through.

Jeep is cooling off.

Stick a fork in Chrysler.

Maserati - Ford tried that and sold them all off.

Alfa - not really going anywhere

Fiat - same thing.

Ford would be best to go at it alone.  Any merger would have the family ceding control which they probably won't do.  They need to keep the laser focus on product and quality.

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1 hour ago, mackinaw said:

Easy answer, one word:  Jeep

I'm wondering if the talks of merger between Ford and FCA was before Ford decided to turn the Bronco into a subbrand. It could have been that Ford wanted the Jeep brand while planning on just the Ranger-based Bronco. Then someone in the higher-up (Hackett or even Bill Ford Jr himself may have came to this idea) decided it would be easier to just make a Bronco subbrand rather than merge with troubled FCA just for Jeep brand. Just my guess why talks between Ford and FCA didn't succeed. My opinion is that Ford does not need to merge with anyone as they are heading in a good direction, although slow one, that is. The partnership with Volkswagen would be just that, a partnership regarding use of product platforms and autonomous technology. Both Ford and VW had said it would not be a merger nor seeking stakes in equity. So the VW partnership aside (not knowing how the talks have been going these days behind the doors), Ford does not need to do true mergers or be sold out to another company, as Ford is starting to slowly head in a good direction.

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Ford FCA combo would have dominated truck and van sales in the US and Canada so it would have a very difficult review by the Justice Department and whatever the Canadian Govt has to do. But it probably would have passed with some minor concession because the number of viable competitors remaining.

And the combined company would be a force to be reckon with F-150 and Ram driving profits like no other, and Ford and Jeep SUV leading the segments.

It's not a bad idea to kick the tires again now that Sergio (may he RIP) is no longer in the picture.

 

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7 hours ago, bzcat said:

Ford FCA combo would have dominated truck and van sales in the US and Canada so it would have a very difficult review by the Justice Department and whatever the Canadian Govt has to do. But it probably would have passed with some minor concession because the number of viable competitors remaining.

And the combined company would be a force to be reckon with F-150 and Ram driving profits like no other, and Ford and Jeep SUV leading the segments.

It's not a bad idea to kick the tires again now that Sergio (may he RIP) is no longer in the picture.

 

You're not addressing the elephant in the room: Europe.

Anyway, it's a moot point, this article is looking back, not addressing something that is currently on the table.

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It would be funny if FCA merged with Nissan and then Nissan breaks off the alliance with Renault. 

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On 6/11/2019 at 10:25 AM, silvrsvt said:

Outside of Jeep, what does it really have to offer to Ford? Even Jeep isn't that great, since Ford is more or less gearing up to go after them with the Bronco, Bronco Scout and who knows what else.

Since seems like automakers are consolidating and since I have next to no clue how Chinese automakers are doing or how that would work, if Ford wanted to merge with someone, I think their best bet would be with the likes of Honda-they have small/mid-sized sedans and minivans that in the future, Ford won't have and they seem to have a good corporate fit with one another.  

I think you may be on to something here.  I could see a Ford/Honda merger, at least on paper, as both has something the other doesn't, Honda brings cars/minivans to the table and Ford brings trucks.  The two biggest challenges would be 1). I don't think the Japanese Government would allow that much foreign ownership of Honda.  Even when Ford had Mazda, wasn't Ford limited to something like 33%?  2). I don't think the corporate cultures at either company would get along very well.

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Honda seems quite happy in their niche and I don't see them merging with anyone.  Remember they have a much larger portfolio than just passenger vehicles.

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11 hours ago, hwyman3 said:

 I don't think the Japanese Government would allow that much foreign ownership of Honda.  Even when Ford had Mazda, wasn't Ford limited to something like 33%? 

I don't think Ford was prohibited from buying more, it was just that their 33% constituted a controlling interest under Japanese law and stock structure, so they didn't need any more.

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There's no way a Ford/FCA merger could happen; neither the Ford nor Agnelli families are willing to give up control of their respective family companies.

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I agree that a Ford/FCA merger wouldn't happen and that it would be almost impossible to convince the Ford family to give up control, but the Angelli family seemed to be okay at first to give control to Renault before the French government demanded more. I think the Angelli family would allow Satan himself to control the company as long as they receive dividend checks.

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On 6/11/2019 at 11:18 PM, mackinaw said:

Easy answer, one word:  Jeep

Why?  It seems Jeep sales are peaking and on the decline.  And it's not been good for any of its owners - all have gone bankrupt or been bought.  

Edited by itguy09

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Every auto company on the planet would love to own Jeep.  It's probably the best-recognized auto brand in the world.  Sales have increased from 291,000 in 2010 to 973,000 in 2018.  Jeep mints money.  Why do you think Chrysler bought AMC back in 1987.  They wanted Jeep.

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Granted.  Jeep has history.  But the Ford Bronco has almost as much history there.  Ford matched or even beat Jeep with the original Bronco.  If Ford does this right, they can capitalize on their existing history and expand.  I don't think any other manufacturer has as good a chance to take on Jeep's following like Ford.  IF done properly...

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People have wondered for years why no other manufacturer has challenged Jeep.  GM tried, with Hummer, but that brand didn't survive bankruptcy.  Ford has an enormous opportunity to shake things up with the Bronco(s).  I'm really looking forward to seeing what they have planned.

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2 hours ago, mackinaw said:

Every auto company on the planet would love to own Jeep.  It's probably the best-recognized auto brand in the world.  Sales have increased from 291,000 in 2010 to 973,000 in 2018.  Jeep mints money.  Why do you think Chrysler bought AMC back in 1987.  They wanted Jeep.

 

44 minutes ago, mackinaw said:

People have wondered for years why no other manufacturer has challenged Jeep.  GM tried, with Hummer, but that brand didn't survive bankruptcy.  Ford has an enormous opportunity to shake things up with the Bronco(s).  I'm really looking forward to seeing what they have planned.

 

The major reason Jeep had a huge increase in sales is because the lineup added 4 new name plates since 2007 or so, not to mention the addition of the 4 door Wrangler. 

The only vehicle that hasn't had a direct competitor for most of its life is the CJ/Wrangler. Outside of the Bronco, IHC Scout or FJ, there hasn't been much competition in the past 25 years+, unless you want to consider the newer Toyota FJ...

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"why no other manufacturer has challenged Jeep"

Jeep brand is not just the Wrangler, even though many think that. The Cherokee, GC, Compass/Patriot and Renegade have plenty of competitors.

Other auto companies don't want the F and C in FCA. Chrysler will be in brand graveyard soon. Fiat is secretly packing bags to leave the USA.

Edited by 630land

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33 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

The major reason Jeep had a huge increase in sales is because the lineup added 4 new name plates since 2007 or so, not to mention the addition of the 4 door Wrangler.

That's true but that doesn't diminish the accomplishment in my mind.

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Other makers are waiting for a 'fire sale'. So they can get the "good parts", aka Ram and Jeep.

OTOH: Some wishful Mopar fan-dreamers still think "a savior" will come along and "bring Chrysler and Dodge back under American ownership". And they think they can "bring back full line up of cars, including 2 door hardtops and station wagons".

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