Jump to content





silvrsvt

Bronco and Bronco Sport World Premier July 13th!!

Recommended Posts

I can’t believe you people are getting wound up because Ross said Webasto screwed up the tops.  That’s a fact which can’t be disputed.

 

NOBODY is saying that Ford isn’t responsible.  NOBODY is saying it’s ok.  To my knowledge Ford hasn’t said anything about Webasto - that’s inside info.

 

This is CLEARLY a defective part.  Ford will CLEARLY fix this and make it right.  But it isn’t something that can be fixed right away.  It will take at least a few months.  In the meantime the tops are still usable and soft tops still work so it’s not like the vehicles can’t be driven.  It sucks, it never should have happened but Ford will fix it.

 

Now if Ford had said “It’s a Webasto problem go talk to Webasto” and denied responsibility and weren’t working to fix it then all this angst would be justified.  But Ford isn’t doing that and to my knowledge they’ve never done that so it’s stupid to even suggest that Ford is denying responsibility.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, 02MustangGT said:

 but some of you need to admit that it’s a bad look and this entire launch (Covid or not) has been less than ideal.  


I don’t know what you’re reading but nobody here has said or implied anything to the contrary.  So now you’re just stirring up shit for no reason arguing about things that weren’t said.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, akirby said:

But Ford isn’t doing that and to my knowledge they’ve never done that so it’s stupid to even suggest that Ford is denying responsibility.

Who is suggesting Ford is denying responsibility? They aren’t and that isn’t the point.   From what I’ve read here, you are blaming the supplier.  Oh and making analogies by referencing defective tires and implying that we should blame the tire manufacturer.  Ford designs and engineers these tops.  Ford is to blame and will most certainly respond, hopefully soon…before it becomes a much larger issue.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, akirby said:


I don’t know what you’re reading but nobody here has said or implied anything to the contrary.  So now you’re just stirring up shit for no reason arguing about things that weren’t said.

 

That is exactly the point, people need to keep in mind...no one is going to argue the point that this launch was far from idea, then add in the fact that this has been the most watched vehicle launch in a very long time (maybe since the 2005 Mustang?!) doesn't make this any better. 

 

Hell my Bronco is being held up over freaking splash guards at the moment...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, akirby said:

I can’t believe you people are getting wound up because Ross said Webasto screwed up the tops.  That’s a fact which can’t be disputed.

 

NOBODY is saying that Ford isn’t responsible.  NOBODY is saying it’s ok.  To my knowledge Ford hasn’t said anything about Webasto - that’s inside info.

 

This is CLEARLY a defective part.  Ford will CLEARLY fix this and make it right.  But it isn’t something that can be fixed right away.  It will take at least a few months.  In the meantime the tops are still usable and soft tops still work so it’s not like the vehicles can’t be driven.  It sucks, it never should have happened but Ford will fix it.

 

Now if Ford had said “It’s a Webasto problem go talk to Webasto” and denied responsibility and weren’t working to fix it then all this angst would be justified.  But Ford isn’t doing that and to my knowledge they’ve never done that so it’s stupid to even suggest that Ford is denying responsibility.

 

Latest update is that all MIC top orders will be built with soft tops instead, and dealer will install corrected hardtop at later date. Ford as compensation will add 25,000 points to Ford Pass rewards program. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, 02MustangGT said:

Who is suggesting Ford is denying responsibility? They aren’t and that isn’t the point.   From what I’ve read here, you are blaming the supplier.  Oh and making analogies by referencing defective tires and implying that we should blame the tire manufacturer.  Ford designs and engineers these tops.  Ford is to blame and will most certainly respond, hopefully soon…before it becomes a much larger issue.  

 

What point don't you get here?

 

If Ford designed the tops and the manufacture of them can't build them to specs because of their manufacturing issues (sort of like a tire manufacture using poor materials on tires that fail), how is that Ford's fault. 

That is like you getting blueprints done for a house and your General Contractor fucks up building it somehow. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, FordBuyer said:

 

Latest update is that all MIC top orders will be built with soft tops instead, and dealer will install corrected hardtop at later date. Ford as compensation will add 25,000 points to Ford Pass rewards program. 

 

Where are you getting this info?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

 

Where are you getting this info?

 

Bronco Nation. Ford sent out the message posted on Bronco Nation Forum.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

 

What point don't you get here?

 

If Ford designed the tops and the manufacture of them can't build them to specs because of their manufacturing issues (sort of like a tire manufacture using poor materials on tires that fail), how is that Ford's fault. 

That is like you getting blueprints done for a house and your General Contractor fucks up building it somehow. 

You have inside info to somehow prove that it’s not the design of the top contributing to such issues?  You are still denying that Ford is at fault for designing, engineering and choosing the supplier of defective tops…and the fallout that has ensued.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, FordBuyer said:

 

Bronco Nation. Ford sent out the message posted on Bronco Nation Forum.

 

I screwed up. PremierDrum posted the message as something Ford SHOULD DO, not something they have done. So looks as of now Ford has not responded to MIC defects. Hopefully Ford will do what Premier recommended. Only give more than 25,000 points.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, FordBuyer said:

 

I screwed up. PremierDrum posted the message as something Ford SHOULD DO, not something they have done. So looks as of now Ford has not responded to MIC defects. Hopefully Ford will do what Premier recommended. Only give more than 25,000 points.

I can’t see them doing that. Basically giving away a free top plus the added expense of shipping the hard top to the dealer seems like it would cost too much.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Likely scenario, Webasto can build the tops just fine, as demonstrated by the pre-production units.  What is probably happening is a process issue that was introduced when they ramped up to full production rates.  Either the mix of the resin is off, the oven temp is off, or the curing time is off.  Something that a team of productions engineers should be able to identify pretty quickly.  The bigger issue is that the solution may slow down production rates or cost more or take a significant change in the production process that leads to a long delay.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, 02MustangGT said:

You have inside info to somehow prove that it’s not the design of the top contributing to such issues?  You are still denying that Ford is at fault for designing, engineering and choosing the supplier of defective tops…and the fallout that has ensued.  

 

What is your problem?

I never once said Ford isn't a fault...but they've been proactive in trying to address the problems the MIC roof has been since March of 2020 to the best of their ability. 

 

Sometimes shit happens and this shit is fucking dumpster fire with no quick/easy solutions.

 


 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Flying68 said:

The bigger issue is that the solution may slow down production rates or cost more or take a significant change in the production process that leads to a long delay.


I'm betting that is part of the reason for the stop in production of the weeks of the 12th and 26th.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
58 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

 

What is your problem?

I never once said Ford isn't a fault...but they've been proactive in trying to address the problems the MIC roof has been since March of 2020 to the best of their ability. 

 

Sometimes shit happens and this shit is fucking dumpster fire with no quick/easy solutions.

 


 

You said ….”how is that Ford’s fault”.  Lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, 02MustangGT said:

You said ….”how is that Ford’s fault”.  Lol

 

How is Ford's fault if westobo can't make tops properly due to a manufacturing issue that THEY have...not Ford. 

 

Your just being obtuse 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The thing is they probably need to really go deep into why these tops are failing so quickly because it is something that need to last for a very long time even exposed to all sorts of elements.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, 02MustangGT said:

Who is suggesting Ford is denying responsibility? They aren’t and that isn’t the point.   From what I’ve read here, you are blaming the supplier.  Oh and making analogies by referencing defective tires and implying that we should blame the tire manufacturer.  Ford designs and engineers these tops.  Ford is to blame and will most certainly respond, hopefully soon…before it becomes a much larger issue.  


See the problem here is you don’t understand the difference between root cause and responsibility.

 

Ford has responsibility for everything.  They are responsible for picking suppliers and they are responsible for fixing any problems.  They are ALWAYS responsible.  There is no question.

 

But when it comes to root cause, that could be Ford design or engineering.  It could be assembly.  Or it could be defective parts.  Those parts could come from a Ford plant or a supplier.  If the engine was assembled en that’s on the Ford plant building the engine.  If it’s a defective tire then it’s the tire mfrs fault.  If it’s a defective roof from Webasto then it’s Webasto’s fault.  In all those cases Ford is still responsible.  But you have to know the root cause of the problem to know how to fix it.

 

If it was an assembly problem then you can fix that pretty quickly.  If it’s a bad batch of parts then you do more inspections and testing and if necessary you switch suppliers.  
 

Ross said (and it’s abundantly clear) that the pre production tops did not have these issues.  If they had we would have heard about them from all the testers and reviewers.  So from a pre production standpoint everything appeared to be fine.

 

Whether the production tops arrived with defects or the defects only appeared after a couple of weeks use is a moot point.  Even if they were spotted before final assembly - what choice did Ford have at that point?  Stop production on hard top orders?  I guarantee if you gave customers the choice of getting the hard top with defects to be fixed later or delaying delivery for a few more months 99% will take the vehicle.  It’s not good but it’s not a disaster either in the bigger picture.

 

The only thing Ford could have done differently is to push back production another 2-3 months to ensure the production tops were up to par before job 1.  And then everybody would have been pissed and you’d be moaning about the delays.  It is truly a no win situation.  All they can do now is get it fixed ASAP whatever that means.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, 02MustangGT said:

I’ve never seen so much spin and contradiction.  Enjoy your FORD Bronco when it arrives.  


There is ZERO spin or contradiction here.  It’s a Ford problem for which Ford is responsible and the ROOT CAUSE is a Webasto manufacturing issue.

 

Webasto has to correct the manufacturing problem or Ford has to find a new supplier.  That is a totally different process and timeline than if it just an assembly line error.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, akirby said:

It’s a Ford problem for which Ford is responsible

 

Thank you akirby sir, that's everything that new Bronco owners need to know about the hardtop problems. Nothing more, nothing less.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Saying it’s a defect in a Webasto manufactured part doesn’t relieve Ford of any responsibility.
 

With that we’re closing the discussion of liability and responsibility.   
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

 

How is Ford's fault if westobo can't make tops properly due to a manufacturing issue that THEY have...not Ford. 

 

Your just being obtuse 

 

Edit*...

My two cents wasnt needed. Seems like everyone's in agreeance that it's Ford's responsibility

and that maybe "Fault" doesn't give way to many solutions...

Edited by Willwll313wll
In post

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Heard they may have found  one problem with tops seperating. The CNC, that trims the panel after molding, was cutting to close to the upper and lower seam. Biggest problem still to be resolved is Webasto can't get enough workers to run plant at levels needed. Ford has sent extra people from Rawsonville and other plants to work there. They have even asked others to volunteer to work there on layoff weeks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, PREMiERdrum said:

Hi guys! Great day here with the Bronco at Cedar Point. 

20210721_102945.jpg

 

I'm going in two weeks!  :-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×