silvrsvt Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/ford/2020/10/05/uaw-unusual-memo-2021-ford-f-150-preparation/3607628001/ Keep in mind this worst case scenario....but I’m sure people are going take this as the sky is falling... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyle Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 Better to be prepared than surprised! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted October 6, 2020 Share Posted October 6, 2020 1 hour ago, silvrsvt said: Keep in mind this worst case scenario....but I’m sure people are going take this as the sky is falling... You have to make contingency plans, and this is going to be a biggly yuuuuuge launch, so you have to have a biggly yuuuuuge contingency plan to go with it. After what happened in Chicago, you can't just take it for granted that this will go as smoothly as the '15 F-150 changeover, although it most likely will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted October 6, 2020 Share Posted October 6, 2020 Meanwhile, MAP is turning out scores of preproduction Broncos in many different colors. By the time Job 1 comes in couple months, building them should be old hat. So since DTP is building the new F-150 now and same drivetrain and more evolutionary than revolutionary, hard to believe this will be the shit show that new Explorer was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted October 6, 2020 Share Posted October 6, 2020 14 minutes ago, FordBuyer said: Meanwhile, MAP is turning out scores of preproduction Broncos in many different colors. By the time Job 1 comes in couple months, building them should be old hat. So since DTP is building the new F-150 now and same drivetrain and more evolutionary than revolutionary, hard to believe this will be the shit show that new Explorer was. Pay attention to how the last major launch at DTP and KCAP went. Pretty much flawless and the retool was 1000x larger than this one was. They'll be fine. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted October 6, 2020 Share Posted October 6, 2020 Seems like this is just a "make sure we're prepared in case" after the Explorer/Aviator launch problems. Not really anything to worry about. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted October 6, 2020 Author Share Posted October 6, 2020 12 hours ago, rmc523 said: Seems like this is just a "make sure we're prepared in case" after the Explorer/Aviator launch problems. Not really anything to worry about. Exactly.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
30 OTT 6 Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 On 10/5/2020 at 8:04 PM, SoonerLS said: You have to make contingency plans, and this is going to be a biggly yuuuuuge launch, so you have to have a biggly yuuuuuge contingency plan to go with it. After what happened in Chicago, you can't just take it for granted that this will go as smoothly as the '15 F-150 changeover, although it most likely will. What exactly happened in Chicago? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 49 minutes ago, 30 OTT 6 said: What exactly happened in Chicago? Ford's Chicago Assembly Plant had so many problems building 2020 Explorer and Aviator that many of those vehicles had to be sent to another plant (Flat Rock in Michigan) for repairs. Ford set up tents at the other plant to store repair parts. These issues for 2020 Explorer and Aviator go beyond the hostile work environment that has plagued Chicago Assembly Plant for a long time. Racism, sexism, gang activity, etc. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, 30 OTT 6 said: What exactly happened in Chicago? I couldn’t hazard a guess as to all the reasons why, but the recent Explorer launch was, by all accounts, a dumpster fire. The predominant reasons seem to be Chicago-specific, so it’s not likely to affect DTP or KCAP, but you can’t take that chance on blind faith. Or, as a friend of mine puts it, “hope is not a course of action.” Edited October 8, 2020 by SoonerLS 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, 30 OTT 6 said: What exactly happened in Chicago? They had no area to build pilot production to build up confidence in build quality, they launched Explorer and Aviator at the same time and just tried to do too much too quick with an all new platform and new production equipment. It cost Ford a fortune in repairs, delayed or lost sales but like other bad starts, Explorer and Aviator sales recovered. Since that time other products have launched without dramas, Ford is desperate to keep the good launches coming. Edited October 8, 2020 by jpd80 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 4 minutes ago, jpd80 said: They had no area to build pilot production to build up confidence in build quality, they launched Explorer and Aviator at the same time and just tried to do too much too quick with an all new platform and new production equipment. It cost Ford a fortune in repairs, delayed or lost sales but like other bad starts, Explorer and Aviator sales recovered. Since that time other products have launched without dramas, Ford is desperate to keep the good launches coming. There was also a lot of sabotage with people either lying or withholding information that led to bad decisions being made. Apparently this had been an ongoing issue with the workers and plant management and the reason they now have a new plant manager. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 58 minutes ago, akirby said: There was also a lot of sabotage with people either lying or withholding information that led to bad decisions being made. Apparently this had been an ongoing issue with the workers and plant management and the reason they now have a new plant manager. That goes on all the time in pretty much any corporate setting where success is rewarded with promises of promotion. Some groups are better at working through that nonsense than others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 3 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said: That goes on all the time in pretty much any corporate setting where success is rewarded with promises of promotion. Some groups are better at working through that nonsense than others. True but I’ve been in corporate America for over 30 years and good managers and executives figure that out and fix it. Sounds to me like there wasn’t enough oversight of the factories and that probably contributed to Hinrich’s departure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, akirby said: True but I’ve been in corporate America for over 30 years and good managers and executives figure that out and fix it. Sounds to me like there wasn’t enough oversight of the factories and that probably contributed to Hinrich’s departure. He had a bit of form for being in charge of several ordinary product launches, I do think that he was made to look worse than what he was. Edited October 9, 2020 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 14 minutes ago, jpd80 said: He had a bit of form for being in charge of several ordinary product launches, I do think that he was made to look worse than what he was. I’m sure there was a lot more to it than just the failed launch, but he obviously didnt understand the problems at CAP and took on too much risk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 (edited) 48 minutes ago, akirby said: I’m sure there was a lot more to it than just the failed launch, but he obviously didnt understand the problems at CAP and took on too much risk. He visited the manager there who reportedly refused to see him....if the relationship was that fractured then someone has to go. Edited October 9, 2020 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 9 hours ago, jpd80 said: He visited the manager there who reportedly refused to see him....if the relationship was that fractured then someone has to go. I would have had a new plant manager there the next day. Inexcusable. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcartwright99 Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 13 hours ago, akirby said: True but I’ve been in corporate America for over 30 years and good managers and executives figure that out and fix it. Sounds to me like there wasn’t enough oversight of the factories and that probably contributed to Hinrich’s departure. Except what happens when the executives realizes it can't be fixed? I fully believe whatever plant manager gets put in there, realizes that they have 0 power to make any real change.It's basically, negotiate with the people causing the problems otherwise, they will sabotage and make it so you get canned. Except this time the trouble makers not only got the plant management fired but also Hinrich. IMHO, CAP is run like a mob organization. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ice-capades Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 1 hour ago, jcartwright99 said: Except what happens when the executives realizes it can't be fixed? I fully believe whatever plant manager gets put in there, realizes that they have 0 power to make any real change.It's basically, negotiate with the people causing the problems otherwise, they will sabotage and make it so you get canned. Except this time the trouble makers not only got the plant management fired but also Hinrich. IMHO, CAP is run like a mob organization. Is that a surprise with the UAW's corruption at the highest level? Regardless, the ultimate responsibility is Ford's as it's their plant, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 2 hours ago, akirby said: I would have had a new plant manager there the next day. Inexcusable. I have an observation regarding that subject but for the interest of keeping myself out of trouble I'll keep it to myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 35 minutes ago, ice-capades said: Is that a surprise with the UAW's corruption at the highest level? Regardless, the ultimate responsibility is Ford's as it's their plant, etc. Yes and no. It seems to be the only plant that is forced to operate with those issues. Sure every plant has their cliques but CAP seems to be a whole other animal. Granted none of us know what really goes on there and all of this evidence is pretty anecdotal but as an outsider looking at the papers and news reports it doesn't look good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 1 hour ago, jcartwright99 said: Except what happens when the executives realizes it can't be fixed? I fully believe whatever plant manager gets put in there, realizes that they have 0 power to make any real change.It's basically, negotiate with the people causing the problems otherwise, they will sabotage and make it so you get canned. Except this time the trouble makers not only got the plant management fired but also Hinrich. IMHO, CAP is run like a mob organization. If the problem is management you start firing people until it’s fixed. If the problem is union and the union won’t back Ford then it will be difficult. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 13 hours ago, jpd80 said: He had a bit of form for being in charge of several ordinary product launches, I do think that he was made to look worse than what he was. He was on the clock when the shift was made to aluminum F-150. I would have to think that was every bit as difficult as the CAP conversion-and it went well right?? 12 hours ago, jpd80 said: He visited the manager there who reportedly refused to see him....if the relationship was that fractured then someone has to go. As AK said if true, the plant manager should have been out the door. Critical launch, and he doesn't want to talk to his boss. Wasn't Hinrichs in the running when Fields got the job??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcartwright99 Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 1 hour ago, akirby said: If the problem is management you start firing people until it’s fixed. If the problem is union and the union won’t back Ford then it will be difficult. Firing management works to an extent. However, you can take a great manager and put them in a bad situation and watch them fail. I am not there so I only know from what I've read here and what has been in the press. Now, I have spoken to a few employees over the years and I didn't get a rosy picture from that either. This is a totally speculative hypothesis. If you have a plant manager that realizes the only way he is going to produce any sort of positive results is to "work with the" union reps and employees, what do you think they are going to do? Turn their head to things that shouldn't be happening. Not report egregious HR issues. Allowing bad behavior to continue. If the plant manager does raise a stink, they face the wrath of a unified union reps and employees that will exploit every UAW protection to produce terrible results that look bad on them. I've said this before, the attitude in Illinois with unionized workers seems to be different from what I experienced in Michigan. It's a fact the UAW is corrupt. It's a fact that the Illinois government is also very corrupt. Not sure if this is why CAP still exists (shrugs)?.You would think with Ford eating millions in lawsuits, lost revenue and terrible publicity that they would've had this addressed by now. Especially in the day and age we live in today 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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