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LookingToBuyAFord

Minivan vs 3 row SUV - why are minivans looked down upon?

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Those wagons are butt ugly to me.  Minivans have the most cargo and passenger capability but are also butt ugly to me.  And I’m not alone in those sentiments.  Also, wagons don’t have the high seating position that utility buyers want.

 

People really really like crossover and suv styling .  I don’t know why you can’t understand that.

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19 minutes ago, akirby said:

People really really like crossover and suv styling .

 

Sure, if their vision is 20/200.

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They are all the same across the board...artistic/styling side of auto design is just gone....want "cool"....spend the clams for "uniqeness"....fords issue is derelict interior appointment sub-planted with cheap plastic....atp's are fine but but you must have the product to support that price level and ford simply does not..ford is a shift adrift with no clear direction on how the fix the sail.....

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2 hours ago, rperez817 said:

 

While I do like sedans, that vehicle type lacks the cargo hauling versatility that crossovers offer. A more appropriate comparison for crossovers would be minivans and wagons. Compared to those, crossovers are definitely inferior from a functional standpoint. Minivans offer more interior room for a given vehicle footprint, while wagons offer better ride and handling.

 

From an aesthetic standpoint, both minivans and crossovers are uglier than a regular wagon/estate/shooting brake. Even the best looking crossover to date, Ford Mustang Mach-E, lacks the elegant, well proportioned styling of these wagons.

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I don't find wagons attractive at all.

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2 hours ago, akirby said:

Those wagons are butt ugly to me.  Minivans have the most cargo and passenger capability but are also butt ugly to me.  And I’m not alone in those sentiments.  Also, wagons don’t have the high seating position that utility buyers want.

 

People really really like crossover and suv styling .  I don’t know why you can’t understand that.

This

 

My wife got a Ford Escape in 2002.  She liked the high seating position and said that she would never buy a passenger car again.  She still drives a crossover.  She has never liked minivans or station wagons.   It’s all about what she likes.  No amount of marketing would get her to buy a minivan or passenger car. 

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The reasons I went from sedan to crossover? Hauling capacity (though you can get much of that in a station wagon too), visibility in traffic (it is something of a self-feeding loop, as the more trucks and SUVs/crossovers out there, the more you need one to be able to see anything at all through the traffic ahead or behind), ease of egress (hey, I'm not 18 anymore), and, at the insistence of my wife, safety (but not in the way one normally thinks; my VW Passat and CCs were three times rear ended at lights by trucks and each time I had major damage and they had almost none because their bumpers were higher than mine and plowed into the rear of my car above my bumper). I find crossovers equally as attractive, though they don't corner as well, even the Audi Q5 I had because, well, physics and all that. But in other ways I find they handle just fine and I'm not taking them out to the track.

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16 hours ago, snooter said:

ford is a shift adrift with no clear direction on how the fix the sail.....

 

Ford has been adrift for decades. In the context of this thread's topic, Ford had a decent minivan offering for the U.S. market 25 years ago. Less than a decade later, its minivan offerings were among the worst. And a few years after that, Ford's U.S. market minivans were gone. Ford repeated that pattern with several other products too, not just minivans.

 

Jim Hackett's fitness initiatives I think got the Ford "ship" finally pointed in the right direction, and Jim Farley shows promise in getting the ship moving.

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I do wish they made the Flex a minivan with sliding doors like they first planned. That would have at least shown you can be adventurous with styling and options in this segment (ecoboost and AWD). Maybe there would be a resurgence if someone did this instead of making mini vans look like a painful suppository.

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On 1/9/2021 at 11:06 AM, rperez817 said:

 

Ford has been adrift for decades. In the context of this thread's topic, Ford had a decent minivan offering for the U.S. market 25 years ago. Less than a decade later, its minivan offerings were among the worst. And a few years after that, Ford's U.S. market minivans were gone. Ford repeated that pattern with several other products too, not just minivans.

 

Uh the Aerostar, which was a Ranger with a funny looking cab on it? Ford never has done well in the Minivan market...they've had huge issues with them since Windstar came out with issues with the 3.8L V6 and other things rotting out on them. 

 

Other products have gone away because of market changes/tastes. 

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On 1/11/2021 at 2:45 PM, LookingToBuyAFord said:

Will minivans ever make a comeback?

 

In terms of sales volume, no. Overall sales are unlikely to reach even a third of the peak in 2000. However, the minivan segment in the U.S. market is as strong as ever in terms of product excellence as well as profitability for the 4 automakers that sell minivans (Honda, FCA, Toyota, and Kia).

 

Honda Odyssey, Chrysler Pacifica, Toyota Sienna, and Kia Sedona have been (or will be) redesigned or refreshed for 2021 or 2022. Each of these vehicles is superior to a comparably priced and sized crossover in every way except for towing and off road capability.

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4 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

Uh the Aerostar, which was a Ranger with a funny looking cab on it? Ford never has done well in the Minivan market...they've had huge issues with them since Windstar came out with issues with the 3.8L V6 and other things rotting out on them.  

 

I was thinking of Windstar. When it was introduced in 1994, it received good reviews. As you mentioned, the quality issues that reared their ugly head shortly thereafter destroyed that model's reputation very quickly.

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As someone mentioned previously, an suv with a using door would be cool. With parking spaces getting smaller and vehicles getting larger, sliding doors on cars, trucks and SUVs make sense, you just need a good way to hide the rail.

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1 hour ago, LookingToBuyAFord said:

Kia Carnival

 

Kia has done the half and half route with the Carnival - half SUV/half minivan.

 

Pretty impressive features and it looks way better than most minivans.

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On 1/13/2021 at 8:12 AM, silvrsvt said:

 

Uh the Aerostar, which was a Ranger with a funny looking cab on it? Ford never has done well in the Minivan market...they've had huge issues with them since Windstar came out with issues with the 3.8L V6 and other things rotting out on them. 

 

Other products have gone away because of market changes/tastes. 

 

The Aerostar was actually unibody and didn't use many Ranger parts at all other than the powertrain. I had an extended length with a 4.0L V6 for a short time in the late 90's, it was a nice little van.

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3 hours ago, LookingToBuyAFord said:

Kia Carnival

 

Kia has done the half and half route with the Carnival - half SUV/half minivan.

 

Yes sir LookingToBuyAFord. The "SUV inspired" styling elements for Carnival are silly and contrived. Also, Kia Motors America's use of "MPV" rather than minivan to describe the vehicle in its marketing materials is silly as well.

 

If you can get past those 2 items, Kia Carnival has a lot of substance, including the most spacious interior among all minivan models currently offered in the U.S. market.

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I’ve seen the Carnival in person now, and it is probably the best looking minivan as far as I’m concerned.  It wasn’t quite as nice looking in person, as I thought it would be, based on pictures I had seen, but still solid effort.  The interior has some neat features as well.  I think it will do well. 

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Today, Toyota released a new version of Sienna called Woodland Special Edition for 2022 model year. It comes standard with AWD and a lifted suspension for 0.6" of additional ground clearance. Embrace Your Adventurous Side with the New Sienna Woodland Special Edition - Toyota USA Newsroom

 

Summary of features.

  • AWD w/ Added Ground Clearance – To take on dirt roads with confidence
  • 1500W capable power outlet – To power-up most household items for a short day trip or an overnight camping excursion
  • Tow hitch with 3500lb Towing Capability – Perfect for bringing a 4Wheeler or Jet Ski
  • Roof rails with crossbars
  • Exclusive Cement exterior color
  • Black sport trimmed seats with unique stitch color
  • 18” wheels
  • Dark chrome-colored accents
  • Black badging
  • Navigation with JBL® 1200W System with 12 Speakers

 

2022-toyota-sienna-woodland-special-edit

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On 4/27/2021 at 11:43 AM, rperez817 said:

 

Yes sir LookingToBuyAFord. The "SUV inspired" styling elements for Carnival are silly and contrived. Also, Kia Motors America's use of "MPV" rather than minivan to describe the vehicle in its marketing materials is silly as well.

 

If you can get past those 2 items, Kia Carnival has a lot of substance, including the most spacious interior among all minivan models currently offered in the U.S. market.

What we call minivans, much of the rest of the world calls MPVs.

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18 hours ago, papilgee4evaeva said:

What we call minivans, much of the rest of the world calls MPVs.

 

Yes sir papilgee4evaeva. Similar to "wagon" in the U.S. market versus "estate" in other parts of the world. Or "sedan" vs "saloon".

 

That's what makes Kia's use of "MPV" for a U.S. market product so silly. Very few American car buyers are familiar with rest of the world terms "MPV", "estate", and "saloon" as vehicle types.

Edited by rperez817

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3 hours ago, rperez817 said:

 

Yes sir papilgee4evaeva. Similar to "wagon" in the U.S. market versus "estate" in other parts of the world. Or "sedan" vs "saloon".

 

That's what makes Kia's use of "MPV" for a U.S. market product so silly. Very few American car buyers are familiar with rest of the world terms "MPV", "estate", and "saloon" as vehicle types.

 

Me, I see it as Kia standardizing everything across the board, just as how they're retiring the name "Sedona" in order to the global "Carnival."

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5 hours ago, papilgee4evaeva said:

 

Me, I see it as Kia standardizing everything across the board, just as how they're retiring the name "Sedona" in order to the global "Carnival."

 

Yes sir, Kia is unifying vehicle model names globally. But they have no justification for using "MPV" to describe 2022 Carnival's category in the U.S. market.

 

Kia also retired the name Optima for its midsize sedan in the U.S. and is using the global K5 name instead. However, the Kia Motors America press release for K5 appropriately uses the word "sedan" to describe its category, not "saloon". 2021 Kia K5 Overview (kiamedia.com)

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5 hours ago, rperez817 said:

 

Yes sir, Kia is unifying vehicle model names globally. But they have no justification for using "MPV" to describe 2022 Carnival's category in the U.S. market.

 

Kia also retired the name Optima for its midsize sedan in the U.S. and is using the global K5 name instead. However, the Kia Motors America press release for K5 appropriately uses the word "sedan" to describe its category, not "saloon". 2021 Kia K5 Overview (kiamedia.com)

 

The K5 situation is a little different.  "Sedan" is much more widely used than the (I believe) British-only "saloon."

 

From what I have experienced with the Sedona/Carnival, they've been positioning it as the "anti-minivan" since the last generation, and I guess to them this is the next logical step.  Whether it's successful remains to be seen.

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Our son was born in 2001.  We bought a 2001 Taurus Wagon as it was easier to get stroller etc. in and out over a trunk.  In 2005 we bought a 2005 Freestar.  That mini van ended up taking him to 1st day of kindergarten, to moving him into college his freshman year. We had it from 2005 to 2019 and drove it over 200,000 miles.  No issues . A mini van is so great on trips.  Roomy inside, great ride.   My wife drives my '13 Taurus right now, I have a '17 Escape. She is deciding what she wants to replace the Taurus soon.  the Taurus wagon and mini van were what my wife drove.  Our son at college is driving my 2007 Explorer with 250,000 miles. The Freestar feels more roomy than the explorer or Taurus.  

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