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Sales Results January '21

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Bronco Sport will soon be killing the Escape in sales. That is fine, however it will push the Escape into a place where the Fusion ended up where the only models selling well will be the value leader trims.

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49 minutes ago, 2005Explorer said:

it will push the Escape into a place where the Fusion ended up where the only models selling well will be the value leader trims.


Escape has been there for the last several years.  90% of the previous Gen I see are cheap SEs.

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12 hours ago, CKNSLS said:

No-the Escape is ugly in it's own right......


Yeah I’m not buying much other than the BS is the major reason sales dropped over 20%.  All the Escapes sold were built long before the shortage of chips and Escape inventory is fine.  
 

I think the shortage will begin to show up in February and March sales figures.  It’s nice having monthly sales releases back though.  One of the best things Farley has done.  These trends can be started much sooner. 

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11 hours ago, 2005Explorer said:

Bronco Sport will soon be killing the Escape in sales. That is fine, however it will push the Escape into a place where the Fusion ended up where the only models selling well will be the value leader trims.


Which then naturally begs the question, why have the Escape?  
 

I questioned having two different stylings of the same vehicle that compete in the same market strategy and still think it’s unnecessary.  I think GM taught us that lesson when they had 7 different versions of every darn vehicle they made.  Once you start robbing Peter to pay Paul you’re not making any headway.  
 

But, ultimately, time will tell.  Hopefully Ford becomes more nimble under Farley and a refresh of the Escape will be moved up and it will be further separated from the BS.  

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2 minutes ago, FR739 said:

Hopefully Ford becomes more nimble under Farley and a refresh of the Escape will be moved up and it will be further separated from the BS.  


Wheels are turning.

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13 minutes ago, FR739 said:


Which then naturally begs the question, why have the Escape?  
 

I questioned having two different stylings of the same vehicle that compete in the same market strategy and still think it’s unnecessary.  I think GM taught us that lesson when they had 7 different versions of every darn vehicle they made.  Once you start robbing Peter to pay Paul you’re not making any headway.  
 

But, ultimately, time will tell.  Hopefully Ford becomes more nimble under Farley and a refresh of the Escape will be moved up and it will be further separated from the BS.  

 

Because Escape will be far more fuel efficient especially in hybrid trim.   Escape is the fleet choice and the value choice leaving Bronco Sport with higher MSRPs and lower rebates.  It allows Bronco Sport to be the best it could possibly be without having to compromise on price or fuel economy.  Escape appeals to those who hate the Bronco Sport styling and/or wants max mpg.

I don't understand why you don't understand the strategy here.   A single vehicle covering the entire spectrum would be extremely compromised in all areas.  

 

 I see the potential for 20K of each vehicle within the next 12-18 months if they get the hybrids out the door and make a few tweaks.

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Not to mention the BS is considerably smaller then the Escape lengthwise.

 

Its akin to having the Focus vs Fiesta when it comes to length. 

 

Further more speaking of the Bronco family, the BS is same size as the 2 door Bronco in length. Would make zero sense to make it the same size as the Escape, which would make it only 7-8 inches shorter then the Bronco 4 door. 

Edited by silvrsvt

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23 minutes ago, akirby said:

It allows Bronco Sport to be the best it could possibly be without having to compromise on price or fuel economy. 

 

In order to make Bronco Sport "the best it could possibly be" short term, Ford needs to expand availability of the 2.0L engine ideally for all trim levels, and also add hybrid and PHEV versions. 

 

Long term, a BEV Bronco Sport should be a winner for sure.

 

 

Edited by rperez817

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14 minutes ago, akirby said:

 

Because Escape will be far more fuel efficient especially in hybrid trim.   Escape is the fleet choice and the value choice leaving Bronco Sport with higher MSRPs and lower rebates.  It allows Bronco Sport to be the best it could possibly be without having to compromise on price or fuel economy.  Escape appeals to those who hate the Bronco Sport styling and/or wants max mpg.

I don't understand why you don't understand the strategy here.   A single vehicle covering the entire spectrum would be extremely compromised in all areas.  

 

 I see the potential for 20K of each vehicle within the next 12-18 months if they get the hybrids out the door and make a few tweaks.

“Extremely compromised” is a bit exaggerated don’t you think? For the longest time, almost all manufacturers have only had one vehicle in each segment and they aren’t compromised. I actually see it as the opposite. Having two vehicles makes them compromised. The escape has all the interior features  I’d like to have, but lacks the exterior style I like. The sport has the exterior style I like, but it forces me to buy 4wd which I don’t want or need and it’s missing a lot of the interior features, size, and engine options that the escape has.

 

id think that an escape sized bronco sport with hybrid and plug-in options offered in both 2WD and 4wd with all the tech inside that the escape has would be quite the winner. The engine options would give better fuel economy and the 2WD would make it cheaper (all of jeeps competitors come in 2WD). I’d guess it would sell just as well if not better than the current two vehicle approach at a much lower cost to ford.  
 

 

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13 hours ago, T-dubz said:


“Only One Non-American Car Enters List Of 10 Most Unsold 2020 Inventory”

 

https://www.motor1.com/news/485461/cars-most-unsold-2020-inventory/

 

escape tops the list

 

No surprise. Ford has always had issues with production and inventory planning.

 

It's not just Escape, either. Ford models comprise 5 of the 10 models (4 if you combine Expedition and Expedition MAX) with the most unsold 2020 model year inventory. Looks like Ford continues to practice the "overproduce and hope for the best, customer demand be damned" technique it has been doing for many years.

 

New Cars with the Highest Share of 2020 Inventory (iSeeCars Study)
Rank Vehicle % 2020 Inventory
1 Ford Escape 90.4%
2 Ford EcoSport 71.3%
3 Chevrolet Bolt EV 68.9%
4 Ford Expedition 61.0%
5 Ford Expedition Max 59.2%
6 Hyundai Santa Fe 57.7%
7 Chrysler 300 52.0%
8 Ford Ranger 51.5%
9 Dodge Charger 51.2%
10 Buick Envision 51.1%

 

Vehicle Brands With the Most Excess 2020 Inventory - iSeeCars
Rank Brand % 2020 Inventory
1 Ford 48.9%
2 Chrysler 44.1%
3 Dodge 37.5%
4 Buick 31.1%
5 Honda 28.3%
6 Porsche 27.8%
7 BMW 26.3%
8 Nissan 24.7%
9 Chevrolet 22.7%
Overall Average 22.5%
Edited by rperez817

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1 hour ago, rperez817 said:

 

In order to make Bronco Sport "the best it could possibly be" short term, Ford needs to expand availability of the 2.0L engine ideally for all trim levels, and also add hybrid and PHEV versions. 

 

Damn man you sure do have a hardon for the 1.5L

2. Plenty of Power

The Bronco Sport’s base engine is a turbocharged 1.5-liter three-cylinder that delivers 181 horsepower and 190 pounds-feet of torque. It comes coupled to an eight-speed automatic, standard four-wheel drive and an electronic Terrain Management System with five different settings. We think it provides more than enough performance to satisfy SUV shoppers. Optional is a 250-hp, turbocharged 2.0-liter four-cylinder that comes standard in the Badlands and First Edition trims. This provides a solid dose of extra power, but it’s nice to know that upgrading engines isn’t essential to getting the most out of the Bronco Sport.

 

 

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10 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

 

Damn man you sure do have a hardon for the 1.5L
 

 


Most reviews I've seen for BS describe the 1.5 as just, fine. I've never seen anyone glowing about it but I've also never seen anyone ripping it to shreds. 

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2 hours ago, FR739 said:


Yeah I’m not buying much other than the BS is the major reason sales dropped over 20%.  All the Escapes sold were built long before the shortage of chips and Escape inventory is fine.  
 

I think the shortage will begin to show up in February and March sales figures.  It’s nice having monthly sales releases back though.  One of the best things Farley has done.  These trends can be started much sooner. 

 

If trims that people want (hybrids especially) aren't in stock, then obviously that's going to be reflected in sales numbers.

 

3 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:


Most reviews I've seen for BS describe the 1.5 as just, fine. I've never seen anyone glowing about it but I've also never seen anyone ripping it to shreds. 

 

That's how I'd describe it in Escape - does the job it's intended to do, but nothing spectacular.  Nowhere near as horrible as reviewers made it out to be.

 

I wonder if it could simply be a supply issue - maybe they're capacity constrained with the 2.0, and thus made it available in fewer trims on BS?

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34 minutes ago, T-dubz said:

“Extremely compromised” is a bit exaggerated don’t you think? For the longest time, almost all manufacturers have only had one vehicle in each segment and they aren’t compromised. I actually see it as the opposite. Having two vehicles makes them compromised. The escape has all the interior features  I’d like to have, but lacks the exterior style I like. The sport has the exterior style I like, but it forces me to buy 4wd which I don’t want or need and it’s missing a lot of the interior features, size, and engine options that the escape has.

 

id think that an escape sized bronco sport with hybrid and plug-in options offered in both 2WD and 4wd with all the tech inside that the escape has would be quite the winner. The engine options would give better fuel economy and the 2WD would make it cheaper (all of jeeps competitors come in 2WD). I’d guess it would sell just as well if not better than the current two vehicle approach at a much lower cost to ford. 

 

First you'd have to compromise on the styling.  Not everybody likes the super boxy Bronco styling as evidenced by some subset of the 10K plus who bought an escape last month instead of a Bronco Sport.  It also needs to be more aerodynamic to get better mpg especially for a hybrid model.   A performance hybrid would work but then you lose the MPG battle against the competition.  So it becomes less rugged or you lose a lot of sales.

 

Second, it would have to be cheaper so FWD and a cheaper AWD system for up North.  Bigger rebates.  Stripped down models for fleet sales.  Now you've severely reduced profit margins and cheapened the overall image.

 

As it stands you have Escape for those who prefer that styling and/or want something cheap and/or want great MPG but don't care about off roading.

 

Then you have Bronco Sport for those that prefer that styling and/or want the ability for outdoor adventures and are willing to pay extra for that.

 

It's about maximizing the entire market opportunity.  One vehicle just can't cover that entire spectrum effectively.

 

That doesn't mean they can't improve both Escape and Bronco Sport with more powertrain and other options.

 

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1 hour ago, akirby said:

 

First you'd have to compromise on the styling.  Not everybody likes the super boxy Bronco styling as evidenced by some subset of the 10K plus who bought an escape last month instead of a Bronco Sport.  It also needs to be more aerodynamic to get better mpg especially for a hybrid model.   A performance hybrid would work but then you lose the MPG battle against the competition.  So it becomes less rugged or you lose a lot of sales.

 

Second, it would have to be cheaper so FWD and a cheaper AWD system for up North.  Bigger rebates.  Stripped down models for fleet sales.  Now you've severely reduced profit margins and cheapened the overall image.

 

As it stands you have Escape for those who prefer that styling and/or want something cheap and/or want great MPG but don't care about off roading.

 

Then you have Bronco Sport for those that prefer that styling and/or want the ability for outdoor adventures and are willing to pay extra for that.

 

It's about maximizing the entire market opportunity.  One vehicle just can't cover that entire spectrum effectively.

 

That doesn't mean they can't improve both Escape and Bronco Sport with more powertrain and other options.

 

I hate to admit it because I spent $34,500 on a new 2020 Escape hybrid, but Ford now has a major headache with this new generation model. Ruinous rebates of $4,000+ already combined with lackluster sales. Going forward near term, Ford needs to get control of these ruinous rebates. IMO, you do it with more standard content like fog lights on SE, and better looking wheels. Add in $1,500 of content, and cut $2,000 in rebates. Long term, Ford needs to focus on better finishes, more content, hybrid models, and the 3 cylinder for S fleet only. 

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26 minutes ago, FordBuyer said:

I hate to admit it because I spent $34,500 on a new 2020 Escape hybrid, but Ford now has a major headache with this new generation model. Ruinous rebates of $4,000+ already combined with lackluster sales. Going forward near term, Ford needs to get control of these ruinous rebates. 

 

Sorry about your situation FordBuyer sir. It's very unfortunate for customers that Ford persists setting MSRP for its vehicles too high, only to offer huge rebates and other incentives later. This causes resale values, which are low to begin with on most Ford passenger cars and crossovers, to tank even further.

 

Your recommendations are spot on. A little tweaking of the design and standard content for Escape to hide some of the cheapness, expanded availability of hybrid powertrain, and some MSRP adjustments can go a long way to reduce the need for big time rebates. Ford is actually doing some of this for 2021 Escape.

 

Subaru and Honda do a good job setting reasonable sticker prices for their vehicles up front, and as a result almost never offer direct to customer rebates. Not coincidentally, they have some of the highest resale values in the industry for passenger cars and crossovers.

Edited by rperez817

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3 hours ago, rperez817 said:

 

No surprise. Ford has always had issues with production and inventory planning.

 

It's not just Escape, either. Ford models comprise 5 of the 10 models (4 if you combine Expedition and Expedition MAX) with the most unsold 2020 model year inventory. Looks like Ford continues to practice the "overproduce and hope for the best, customer demand be damned" technique it has been doing for many years.

 

New Cars with the Highest Share of 2020 Inventory (iSeeCars Study)
Rank Vehicle % 2020 Inventory
1 Ford Escape 90.4%
2 Ford EcoSport 71.3%
3 Chevrolet Bolt EV 68.9%
4 Ford Expedition 61.0%
5 Ford Expedition Max 59.2%
6 Hyundai Santa Fe 57.7%
7 Chrysler 300 52.0%
8 Ford Ranger 51.5%
9 Dodge Charger 51.2%
10 Buick Envision 51.1%

 

Vehicle Brands With the Most Excess 2020 Inventory - iSeeCars
Rank Brand % 2020 Inventory
1 Ford 48.9%
2 Chrysler 44.1%
3 Dodge 37.5%
4 Buick 31.1%
5 Honda 28.3%
6 Porsche 27.8%
7 BMW 26.3%
8 Nissan 24.7%
9 Chevrolet 22.7%
Overall Average 22.5%

 

Well, for the Escape, Louisville didn't start producing 2021 models until January 4th and then had shutdowns. It's not exactly a surprise that almost all the inventory is 2020s. Expedition was a 12/1 start and Ranger was 12/7. This is much later than normal and is a good part of the explanation.

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2 hours ago, rmc523 said:

 

 

I wonder if it could simply be a supply issue - maybe they're capacity constrained with the 2.0, and thus made it available in fewer trims on BS?

I doubt Ford has any issues supplying plenty of 2.0 power plants - I wonder if the issue is with either the off road suspension or updated AWD unit that comes with the 2.0. 

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1 hour ago, rperez817 said:

 

Sorry about your situation FordBuyer sir. It's very unfortunate for customers that Ford persists setting MSRP for its vehicles too high, only to offer huge rebates and other incentives later. This causes resale values, which are low to begin with on most Ford passenger cars and crossovers, to tank even further.

 

Your recommendations are spot on. A little tweaking of the design and standard content for Escape to hide some of the cheapness, expanded availability of hybrid powertrain, and some MSRP adjustments can go a long way to reduce the need for big time rebates. Ford is actually doing some of this for 2021 Escape.

 

Subaru and Honda do a good job setting reasonable sticker prices for their vehicles up front, and as a result almost never offer direct to customer rebates. Not coincidentally, they have some of the highest resale values in the industry for passenger cars and crossovers.

Crv and Rav4 also offer fog lights, outside mirror marker lights, and auto dimming mirror on their lower level trims plus 4 cyl. engines with more hp with no fuel mileage penalty. Also more cargo room.

 

Still don't understand why Ford didn't BENCHMARK the Rav and Crv when designing the new Escape. Decontenting, going to 3 cyl on a compact CUV, and offering less cargo room for a higher price was a MISS before assembly began. Again, the ONLY reason why I bought an Escape was because of the superior hybrid drive train. No other reason. 

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3 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:


Most reviews I've seen for BS describe the 1.5 as just, fine. I've never seen anyone glowing about it but I've also never seen anyone ripping it to shreds. 

It is not the engine. It is the noise it makes and it is worse when the weather and engine is cold. A little sound deadening would go a long way. 

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2 hours ago, FordBuyer said:

Crv and Rav4 also offer fog lights, outside mirror marker lights, and auto dimming mirror on their lower level trims plus 4 cyl. engines with more hp with no fuel mileage penalty. Also more cargo room.

 

Still don't understand why Ford didn't BENCHMARK the Rav and Crv when designing the new Escape. Decontenting, going to 3 cyl on a compact CUV, and offering less cargo room for a higher price was a MISS before assembly began. Again, the ONLY reason why I bought an Escape was because of the superior hybrid drive train. No other reason. 


They expected a large percentage of sales to be in the lower price range - SE models.  The previous Gen escape and Fusions were premium vehicles that struggled to make a profit when buyers chose mostly cheap SE models.  Ford probably expected big rebates on the lower end models.

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9 hours ago, FR739 said:


Which then naturally begs the question, why have the Escape?  
 

I questioned having two different stylings of the same vehicle that compete in the same market strategy and still think it’s unnecessary.  I think GM taught us that lesson when they had 7 different versions of every darn vehicle they made.  Once you start robbing Peter to pay Paul you’re not making any headway.  
 

But, ultimately, time will tell.  Hopefully Ford becomes more nimble under Farley and a refresh of the Escape will be moved up and it will be further separated from the BS.  

Pretty simple answer......Escape offers a very good hybrid and soon a plugin hybrid. After 20 months, we are still averaging about 50mpg...twice what the BS gets. And look for fuel mileage standards to go up big time with 25mpg not making it anymore. Who knows when Ford will offer a hybrid BS. The Escape hybrid is it as the Explorer hybrid fuel mileage is not very impressive. Ford will need Escape to meet fuel standards until Ford can intro more later in decade. 

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11 minutes ago, FordBuyer said:

After 20 months, we are still averaging about 50mpg...twice what the BS gets. 

 

Very impressive FordBuyer sir! That's a testament not only to the hybrid powertrain of your Escape, but also good driving habits on your part.

 

One thing Ford does very well with its hybrid vehicles, even better than Toyota and Honda, is "coaching" drivers on efficient driving techniques via the multifunction display. The Ford Fusion Hybrid rental car I had a few years ago had a display in the instrument cluster that indicated driving efficiency in the categories of acceleration, braking, and cruising. Very cool feature.

 

 

DSC_0939.JPG

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2 hours ago, akirby said:

The previous Gen escape and Fusions were premium vehicles that struggled to make a profit


Those models were mass market products, "premium" only in the sense they had higher MSRP than comparably equipped competitors. This was due in part to Ford's "price high and offer big rebates" marketing strategy, and in part to higher operational costs due to process inefficiencies at Ford. That's why they struggled to make a profit.

 

Hopefully Jim Farley can help implement better operational processes all around at Ford to improve its cost structure, and also encourage Ford's marketers to price its vehicles in a more reasonable manner that avoids the need for huge rebates.

Edited by rperez817

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