UAW Demands 46% Pay Hike

[Maislebandit]

4 hours ago, akirby said:

That was me wearing my moderator cap.  We aren’t going to turn this into a back and forth debate that devolves into personal attacks.

I enjoy a spirited debate and believe discourse is a healthy element to further different viewpoints. 
I certainly have no desire to resort to personal attacks so I’m not sure why you believe that was the direction it was heading. 
Again, have a good one. 

[Maislebandit]

8 hours ago, Oacjay98 said:

I politely disagree and welcome a raise and you’re right no need for debate. 

Any issue with differing viewpoints is worthy of debate. Isn’t that a fundamental function of this forum? 
As long as it’s civil discussion, I don’t see the issue. Anyone should be free to engage, withdraw or just agree to disagree. 
Suggesting otherwise has the hint of recommending silence and that’s a step towards censorship. 

[silvrsvt]

Tonight, for the first time in our history, we will strike all three of the Big Three at once

[akirby]

6 hours ago, Maislebandit said:

I enjoy a spirited debate and believe discourse is a healthy element to further different viewpoints. 
I certainly have no desire to resort to personal attacks so I’m not sure why you believe that was the direction it was heading. 
Again, have a good one. 

 

6 hours ago, Maislebandit said:

Any issue with differing viewpoints is worthy of debate. Isn’t that a fundamental function of this forum? 
As long as it’s civil discussion, I don’t see the issue. Anyone should be free to engage, withdraw or just agree to disagree. 
Suggesting otherwise has the hint of recommending silence and that’s a step towards censorship. 

I didn’t say you would be making the attacks.  This is like a religious or political discussion where people are passionate and naturally choose sides.  And now with the strike it will get even worse.  And nothing I say will change your mind and vice versa.  Debate is only useful when both sides are open to new facts and that’s not the case when you’re talking about people’s livelihood.  So just let it go.

[Flying68]

Did the UAW even present the contract offers to the membership?  The standard here in my area is that the union has to present the last and final offer to the membership for a vote before any strike can happen.

[paintguy]

23 minutes ago, Flying68 said:

Did the UAW even present the contract offers to the membership?  The standard here in my area is that the union has to present the last and final offer to the membership for a vote before any strike can happen.

No, there really is no requirement to present "final" offer to membership. Strike vote authorizes union to strike as needed based on their judgement and contract expiration. Some additional requirements for notification to NLRB and the company. The preemptive strike vote is an affirmation that the union is acting in your interests. 

[T-dubz]

Serious question here. How do these negotiations work? Does ford get to demand anything from the workers or is it only the union that makes the demands? Can any of the union demands be tied to performance? One of ford’s biggest issues right now is the quality of their product. They have had the most recalls of any automaker for the past two years and I’m sure they spend a ton on warranty costs. It would seem fair to me to give cost of living adjustments and then tie anything over that to meeting certain quality standards.

[akirby]

Quote

 

“What their initial offer was, is to pay our hourly workers about $300,000 each, and to work four days," Farley said on Thursday of the UAW's demands. "That would basically put our company out of business."

 

Although Fain acknowledged that the automakers had upped their wage offers, the proposals remain inadequate, he said. Ford has offered 20% over 4.5 years, while GM and Stellantis offered 18% and 17.5% over four years, respectively. 

 

Just to clarify the $300k - that is salary and bonuses plus healthcare and pension costs and probably factors in the extra overtime and/or extra workers needed to make up for the 4 day week.  It’s the actual cost in total to the company.

[akirby]

27 minutes ago, T-dubz said:

Serious question here. How do these negotiations work? Does ford get to demand anything from the workers or is it only the union that makes the demands? Can any of the union demands be tied to performance? One of ford’s biggest issues right now is the quality of their product. They have had the most recalls of any automaker for the past two years and I’m sure they spend a ton on warranty costs. It would seem fair to me to give cost of living adjustments and then tie anything over that to meeting certain quality standards.

It’s a negotiation so there are no demands per se other than one side saying this is what we want and refusing to negotiate that point.  Any “demand” has to be agreed to by the other party.

[akirby]

So let’s say the workers don’t agree with leadership - what are the options?

[ice-capades]

Ford Says UAW Counterproposal is Unsustainable

https://fordauthority.com/2023/09/ford-says-uaw-counterproposal-is-unsustainable/

 

 

For weeks now, Ford, General Motors, and Stellantis have been engaged in contract negotiations with the United Auto Workers (UAW) union, but despite both sides submitting multiple counteroffers, a deal never seemed particularly close. Thus, a strike officially began early this morning following the passing of Thursday’s 11:59pm deadline, as Ford Authority reported earlier today, albeit only at one plant operated by each manufacturer – in Ford’s case, the Michigan Assembly plant, which builds the Ford Bronco and Ford Ranger. Shortly before the strike began, Ford issued a statement revealing that it has made four offers to the UAW thus far, and received one from the union mere hours before midnight, though the automaker called it “unsustainable.”

 

“Unfortunately, the UAW’s counterproposal tonight showed little movement from the union’s initial demands submitted August 3^rd,” FoMoCo said in a statement. “If implemented, the proposal would more than double Ford’s current UAW-related labor costs, which are already significantly higher than the labor costs of Tesla, Toyota, and other foreign-owned automakers in the United States that utilize non-union-represented labor.”

 

“The union made clear that unless we agreed to its unsustainable terms, it plans a work stoppage at 11:59 p.m. eastern. Ford has bargained in good faith in an effort to avoid a strike, which could have wide-ranging consequences for our business and the economy. It also impacts the very 57,000 UAW-Ford workers we are trying to reward with this contract. Our hourly employees would take home nearly 60 percent less on average with UAW strike pay than they would from working. And without vehicles in production, the profit-sharing checks that UAW workers could expect to receive early next year will also be decimated by a significant strike. Ford remains absolutely committed to reaching an agreement that rewards our employees and protects Ford’s ability to invest in the future as we move through industry-wide transformation.”

 

At the same time, the automaker notes that its last proposal to the UAW “was historically generous, with large wage increases, cost of living adjustments, more paid time off, additional retirement contributions and more.” Ford’s most recent proposal to the union offered it a 20 percent pay increase, which is still pretty far off from the UAW’s recently-lowered ask of 36 percent. Otherwise, FoMoCo has seemingly met most of the union’s demands, including the return of cost of living increases, the end of tiered pay systems, pensions for new hires, and increased pensions for retirees – but not a request for a four-day, 32-hour full time work week.

Edited September 15, 2023 by ice-capades
Additional Content

[jasonj80]

13 minutes ago, akirby said:

So let’s say the workers don’t agree with leadership - what are the options?

The individual plants could hold an election to decertify the union at that location, they would contact the NLRB with the required 30% of members at the location signature cards and they would schedule a vote.
 

If ONE plant did that the UAW leadership would freak out and settle the strike. It would be settled before NLRB was finished counting the election cards. 

 

The UAW lives in a time gone by. It is why it is such a sought after job for so many and live in the echo chamber of Detroit where everyone thinks of the families that worked generations there and they still have 95% market share as that’s what they see on the road. (Though lately that is changing) You have support  because you never dare say anything bad about the UAW as you’ll get screamed at or asked to leave people’s houses. It’s still the great times of the 1970’s when Detroits fall from grace started.
 

This strike is just another winning a battle but losing the war and shows how out of touch the UAW really is with how much the county has changed. Who cares if I can’t get an Escape or Explorer, I’ll just go get a CRV, Telluride. They are cheaper anyways and also made in the USA. 

 

 

 

[Deanh]

hate to say this...but exactly how critical are those workers striking considered?...are they essential or could they ultimately be replaced? Dependent on how deep the coffers are, whats to stop Ford from just stating " bye felicia " and replacing some or all of the striking workers with non union people...as previously stated...who exactly works fro who?   

[paintguy]

1 hour ago, akirby said:

Just to clarify the $300k - that is salary and bonuses plus healthcare and pension costs and probably factors in the extra overtime and/or extra workers needed to make up for the 4 day week.  It’s the actual cost in total to the company.

Back when the average legacy was $30/hr a rate of abut $100/hr was used for calculating cost of adding or subtracting a worker. If my memory is correct, also a factor for 1st line supervision. 

[Oac98]

47 minutes ago, jasonj80 said:

The individual plants could hold an election to decertify the union at that location, they would contact the NLRB with the required 30% of members at the location signature cards and they would schedule a vote.
 

If ONE plant did that the UAW leadership would freak out and settle the strike. It would be settled before NLRB was finished counting the election cards. 

 

The UAW lives in a time gone by. It is why it is such a sought after job for so many and live in the echo chamber of Detroit where everyone thinks of the families that worked generations there and they still have 95% market share as that’s what they see on the road. (Though lately that is changing) You have support  because you never dare say anything bad about the UAW as you’ll get screamed at or asked to leave people’s houses. It’s still the great times of the 1970’s when Detroits fall from grace started.
 

This strike is just another winning a battle but losing the war and shows how out of touch the UAW really is with how much the county has changed. Who cares if I can’t get an Escape or Explorer, I’ll just go get a CRV, Telluride. They are cheaper anyways and also made in the USA. 

 

 

 

We deserve a raise man, bottom line! Some of the unions demands will not happen but we deserve a raise. Up here in Canada Toyota workers now top out at 39.58 an hour. Are they overpaid too? UNIFOR has rejected two proposals from Ford as well. Maybe we will strike too. Ford got 590 million CAD from our government in 2020 to retool OAC. Biden has given them what like 9.2 billion recently. Is it a sin for the workers to want more of a cut. Fuck Hyundai Kia and their child labor at their suppliers. All these companies have unions in their respective countries. 

[Oac98]

One thing I do believe though even before this contract is that with this EV shit there will be plant closures and consolidations. Am I wrong??? All of these non union shops will have to give raises eventually I believe. 

[akirby]

14 minutes ago, Oacjay98 said:

We deserve a raise man, bottom line! Some of the unions demands will not happen but we deserve a raise. Up here in Canada Toyota workers now top out at 39.58 an hour. Are they overpaid too? UNIFOR has rejected two proposals from Ford as well. Maybe we will strike too. Ford got 590 million CAD from our government in 2020 to retool OAC. Biden has given them what like 9.2 billion recently. Is it a sin for the workers to want more of a cut. Fuck Hyundai Kia and their child labor at their suppliers. All these companies have unions in their respective countries. 

Kia, Toyota and most of the other mfrs have US plants employing US workers not child labor.  
 

Ford offered a 20% raise plus cola.  That far outpaces inflation the last 4 years.

[paintguy]

30 minutes ago, Deanh said:

hate to say this...but exactly how critical are those workers striking considered?...are they essential or could they ultimately be replaced? Dependent on how deep the coffers are, whats to stop Ford from just stating " bye felicia " and replacing some or all of the striking workers with non union people...as previously stated...who exactly works fro who?   

At a Ford plant there is a mix of "skilled" and "unskilled" positions. Many are "pair of hands" workers following a rigid set of operating instructions (OIS). The skilled repair positions, painters, electricians, skilled trades and others are among the best I ever worked with. (I worked about 20 years for Ford and 20+ for other manufacturing companies) In recent years, turnover in 1st line supervision leaves many with limited ability to train a large number of new workers. Then there are senior employees with experience in the computer systems Ford uses for quality and other systems. Some of these are quite quirky. Some of the quality reps I worked with really had equivalent of an associates degree in quality control. Whether any automaker can attract, and more importantly retain new people in this day and age remains to be seen. All I have evidence for is reports by my former coworkers that the lower wage recent hires have a poor retention rate. Tales of people leaving at 1st break, and those leaving for Amazon due to down weeks and going on unemployment (those workers ineligible for subpay).  In honesty though, assembly line work is not for everyone. When I tell people I worked for Ford, some have surprised me by saying they worked there back in the day, got burned out and left, at the then UAW wage. Even among salary, the hours, off shift work, pressures of production, quite a few move on. If you have a "sensitive" skin, you will either toughen it or move on. 

Just one retirees point of view. Not a statement of Ford Motor Company.

[Deanh]

7 minutes ago, paintguy said:

At a Ford plant there is a mix of "skilled" and "unskilled" positions. Many are "pair of hands" workers following a rigid set of operating instructions (OIS). The skilled repair positions, painters, electricians, skilled trades and others are among the best I ever worked with. (I worked about 20 years for Ford and 20+ for other manufacturing companies) In recent years, turnover in 1st line supervision leaves many with limited ability to train a large number of new workers. Then there are senior employees with experience in the computer systems Ford uses for quality and other systems. Some of these are quite quirky. Some of the quality reps I worked with really had equivalent of an associates degree in quality control. Whether any automaker can attract, and more importantly retain new people in this day and age remains to be seen. All I have evidence for is reports by my former coworkers that the lower wage recent hires have a poor retention rate. Tales of people leaving at 1st break, and those leaving for Amazon due to down weeks and going on unemployment (those workers ineligible for subpay).  In honesty though, assembly line work is not for everyone. When I tell people I worked for Ford, some have surprised me by saying they worked there back in the day, got burned out and left, at the then UAW wage. Even among salary, the hours, off shift work, pressures of production, quite a few move on. If you have a "sensitive" skin, you will either toughen it or move on. 

Just one retirees point of view. Not a statement of Ford Motor Company.

thankyou...gives some insight...because in my eyes the UAW is doing no one any favors and is quite literally jeopardizing somes livelihood....and it has basically come down to..and some will cringe at the word...extortion...if you dont give us this were going to do this...quite sire theres some workers that want no part of the UAW shennanigans but dont have a choice...

[silvrsvt]

13 minutes ago, akirby said:

Kia, Toyota and most of the other mfrs have US plants employing US workers not child labor.  

See this

 

https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-immigration-hyundai/

[paintguy]

5 minutes ago, Deanh said:

thankyou...gives some insight...because in my eyes the UAW is doing no one any favors and is quite literally jeopardizing somes livelihood....and it has basically come down to..and some will cringe at the word...extortion...if you dont give us this were going to do this...quite sire theres some workers that want no part of the UAW shennanigans but dont have a choice...

Really, from what I have heard, Ford gave the best offer to the UAW. 20% and stick with 40 hr week seems more reasonable or doable. Some rank and file workers are realistic enough to know they would not get it all. Hope they get to brass tacks soon and get it done.

[Deanh]

27 minutes ago, Oacjay98 said:

We deserve a raise man, bottom line! Some of the unions demands will not happen but we deserve a raise. Up here in Canada Toyota workers now top out at 39.58 an hour. Are they overpaid too? UNIFOR has rejected two proposals from Ford as well. Maybe we will strike too. Ford got 590 million CAD from our government in 2020 to retool OAC. Biden has given them what like 9.2 billion recently. Is it a sin for the workers to want more of a cut. Fuck Hyundai Kia and their child labor at their suppliers. All these companies have unions in their respective countries. 

Im sure no one denies you derserve a raise...but how obsurd is 46% ??????????  thats does NO ONE any favors and IS non negotiable, thats as assinine as a Paint guy demanding to be able to work from home....

[silvrsvt]

The big issue going down the road is going to be finding workers…period. The population of the US is aging and the younger generations are getting smaller and smaller due to family sizes shrinking. 
 

Your seeing that already-it’s hard to find people to hire and when you do they disappear at the drop of a hat due to strong demand in the labor market. 
 

should be interesting how this all shakes out. If these goes on for a long period of time, both sides might be seriously hurt by it. 

[paintguy]

6 minutes ago, Deanh said:

Im sure no one denies you derserve a raise...but how obsurd is 46% ??????????  thats does NO ONE any favors and IS non negotiable, thats as assinine as a Paint guy demanding to be able to work from home....

Oddly enough, many times I did "work" from home, while not on my shift or vacation, giving "free" advice on how to approach a problem. Good times.

[Deanh]

6 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

The big issue going down the road is going to be finding workers…period. The population of the US is aging and the younger generations are getting smaller and smaller due to family sizes shrinking. 
 

Your seeing that already-it’s hard to find people to hire and when you do they disappear at the drop of a hat due to strong demand in the labor market. 
 

should be interesting how this all shakes out. If these goes on for a long period of time, both sides might be seriously hurt by it. 

that...and Im not so sure certain younger generations really WANT to work on anything other than a computer....