UAW Demands 46% Pay Hike

[silvrsvt]

4 hours ago, Gurgeh said:

It's like that in the federal workforce as well. Non-performers, and there are a lot of them, can theoretically get fired, but the process takes too long and is insanely complicated. So the poor workers tend to get shunted into jobs that don't do much or "promoted" into new jobs where they become someone else's problem. Hard working government workers, and there are a good number of them, then just find more and more work piled on their shoulders until they collapse.

 

As a federal manager (in the Treasury Department) I actually initiated the firing process on a University of Virginia PhD economist who spent his entire day playing solitaire on the computer. After about a year of working laboriously through the firing process we finally convinced him to just retire. It might have taken a second year to bring the process to its conclusion.

 

I've worked for the DOD and came over to the Civilian DOD sides of things a few years back and I've seen the same exact thing your talking about.

 

 

4 hours ago, Bob Rosadini said:

 

Hope you are wrong on the "decades" piece but it can't help keeping prospective buyers loyal to Ford, GM etc.  In particular when you hear for example the Toyota ads that stress "longest lasting, full service for a year blah blah.  I am a loyal Ford guy who grew up in a family where the cars, trucks and tractors were Fords...and I've instilled that in my two sons who have  never bought anything but Fords.  But think of the generations that have NOT grown up in loyal Ford, GM,  Mopar households.  There are too many in that category that don't have that ingrained loyalty and I fear  both the companies and the UAW will suffer as people say "enough".

 

IMO I think that brand loyalty is overrated to a point and also the whole imports are superior thing is over played to a point also. All it takes is just one bad experience with a brand, no matter who it is for a person to move on from it. I don't think people are really that wound up about it-if they actually had problems with things, other bigger issues would be getting addressed that aren't even in the same category as buying car. If it doesn't directly hurt the person, they just don't care. Just look at what is happening in NYC with illegal immigrants kicking the elderly out of nursing homes and getting put into neighbors-people are finally saying enough is enough. 

 

 

[silvrsvt]

2 hours ago, Oacjay98 said:

Let’s just hope there is some sort of resolution to this contract. Like I said from the start 46 percent was never gonna happen, 4 day work week never gonna happen and as for pensions likely never gonna happen maybe minimal improvents but who knows. My question is what is the long term fallout? 

 

That is the problem-the making those requests/demands just sets bad optics for the greater public and for the news/social media pundits to use against the union. That is where the mistake they made...why not focus on pay increases and COLA, which most people would find reasonable given the price increases etc. But no we are going to clutter up everything by asking for assinne things that don't do anything but act as ammo for people to attack the union. 

[Deanh]

4 hours ago, Oacjay98 said:

They’re sold at cost to the dealers, correct??

you missed the point, you stated consumers are paying too much and then mentioned addendums.....thats not Ford and if you look up margins at the Dealer level youd probably be extremely surprized...Ford makes their wholesale $ regardless of what Dealers sell them for....

Edited September 29, 2023 by Deanh

[jpd80]

I get the feeling that Ford will be first with a deal and that GM and Stellantis are still miles off.

So do we think that the eventual Ford contract will be the template that the others use?

Edited September 29, 2023 by jpd80

[hllywd]

9 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

I still don’t understand the fascination with a pension

I'm Legacy so I'm still in the pension crowd. Frankly, I wouldn't mind converting from pension to 401k. I'd have more choices and more control over investments. And, as a divorced employee, I can't leave my pension to my kids. 401k can be passed on. And remember people like the Steel workers who showed up one day and the doors were chained shut. Company closed their doors forever and the pensions were gone. I'm not convinced my pension will still be there by the time I can retire.

Edited September 29, 2023 by hllywd

[hllywd]

7 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

LMAO Nice striking a plant that hasn’t been able to sell what they build for the last 4 months.

 

What an absolute joke. 
 

Edit: The more I think about it the more pissed I’m getting. This motherfucker keeps talking a big game but when the time comes to throw hands, he’s blowing bubbles instead of throwing haymakers. I’m starting to believe he’s dragging this out just to be an asshole. Either take what’s on the table to a vote and whatever happens, happens or go for the throat and end this shit already. 

Agreed fuzzy. The first offer was digestible. Admittedly, the offers have improved. But I would've voted yes on the last two offers. We haven't even heard where we're at or why we're holding out. I'm not saying that we need to bend over and accept whatever the company throws at us. But we've gotten back things like COLA when we heard that would never come back. Take the win. Seems like this would be a fair agreement for both sides. Doesn't do us any good to hold out for everything if it would kill the company or move our jobs elsewhere. Fain keeps saying our cause is righteous and the public is on our side. That's not what I'm reading through various social media outlets. At this point it's coming across as greed. 

[mackinaw]

From today's Detroit News.  

 

Ford Motor Co. CEO Jim Farley on Friday accused the United Auto Workers of "holding the deal hostage" over the automaker's four planned battery plants in the United States.  “Here’s the bottom line from Ford’s perspective," Farley said during a news briefing Friday. "First, Ford has offered an incredible contract that would change the lives of over 57,000 workers for the better. Second, we believe the UAW is holding up the deal over battery plants that won’t come online for another two to three years. And finally, we still have time to reach an agreement and avert a real disaster — but not much more time, given the fragility of the supply base.”  "Keep in mind, these battery plants don’t exist yet. They’re mostly joint ventures. And they have not been organized by the UAW yet because the workers haven’t been hired, and won’t be for many years to come," Farley said. "They won’t scale until the next contract.”

 

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/ford/2023/09/29/farley-claims-uaw-is-holding-the-deal-hostage-over-battery-plants/71004708007/

 

 

[jpd80]

20 minutes ago, hllywd said:

Agreed fuzzy. The first offer was digestible. Admittedly, the offers have improved. But I would've voted yes on the last two offers. We haven't even heard where we're at or why we're holding out. I'm not saying that we need to bend over and accept whatever the company throws at us. But we've gotten back things like COLA when we heard that would never come back. Take the win. Seems like this would be a fair agreement for both sides. Doesn't do us any good to hold out for everything if it would kill the company or move our jobs elsewhere. Fain keeps saying our cause is righteous and the public is on our side. That's not what I'm reading through various social media outlets. At this point it's coming across as greed. 

Now this is where things get interesting, there’s a good deal being offered but obviously, the UAW is concerned by battery plants and new BEV manufacturing plants coming on line near the end of this coming contract. Does the UAW see a lot of members losing their jobs in three or four years time?

 

17 minutes ago, mackinaw said:

From today's Detroit News.  

 

Ford Motor Co. CEO Jim Farley on Friday accused the United Auto Workers of "holding the deal hostage" over the automaker's four planned battery plants in the United States.  “Here’s the bottom line from Ford’s perspective," Farley said during a news briefing Friday. "First, Ford has offered an incredible contract that would change the lives of over 57,000 workers for the better. Second, we believe the UAW is holding up the deal over battery plants that won’t come online for another two to three years. And finally, we still have time to reach an agreement and avert a real disaster — but not much more time, given the fragility of the supply base.”  "Keep in mind, these battery plants don’t exist yet. They’re mostly joint ventures. And they have not been organized by the UAW yet because the workers haven’t been hired, and won’t be for many years to come," Farley said. "They won’t scale until the next contract.”

 

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/ford/2023/09/29/farley-claims-uaw-is-holding-the-deal-hostage-over-battery-plants/71004708007/

 

 

I think this hits the nail on the head, for whatever is being negotiated now will be of no consequence if a lot of UAW workers lose their jobs in three or four years time…..makes me think that the UAW in now fighting for more than the current condition, maybe  it’s own survival Beyoncé this contract….

Edited September 29, 2023 by jpd80

[fuzzymoomoo]

1 hour ago, jpd80 said:

Now this is where things get interesting, there’s a good deal being offered but obviously, the UAW is concerned by battery plants and new BEV manufacturing plants coming on line near the end of this coming contract. Does the UAW see a lot of members losing their jobs in three or four years time?

Think of it as the union is looking for a landing spot for if/when the engine and transmission plants are no longer needed. 

[paintguy]

7 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

Maybe it’s just me being jaded from constantly seeing everything fall apart time and time again but I’m not planning on anything being available come the time I’m eligible to retire, if I’m ever even able to to begin with. Wouldn’t surprise me if I have to work until I’m in my 70s because retirement just isn’t an option. 

Sorry to hear that Fuzzy. Over the years and from others I know who know you, understand you are a good worker. Hope it ends up well for you. This is a tough industry to be working into your 70s. Best of luck.

[rperez817]

4 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

Think of it as the union is looking for a landing spot for if/when the engine and transmission plants are no longer needed. 

 

At this point, it's a "when" question not an "if". Hopefully Ford and UAW can work out a plan to ensure that Ford's new HV battery plants are staffed in a manner beneficial to both parties.

[Oac98]

14 hours ago, Deanh said:

you missed the point, you stated consumers are paying too much and then mentioned addendums.....thats not Ford and if you look up margins at the Dealer level youd probably be extremely surprized...Ford makes their wholesale $ regardless of what Dealers sell them for....

Got it

[Oac98]

21 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

 

That is the problem-the making those requests/demands just sets bad optics for the greater public and for the news/social media pundits to use against the union. That is where the mistake they made...why not focus on pay increases and COLA, which most people would find reasonable given the price increases etc. But no we are going to clutter up everything by asking for assinne things that don't do anything but act as ammo for people to attack the union. 

I would have to agree. I suppose the method was to aim higher but we know some of those demands are long shots to not gonna happen.

[silvrsvt]

2 hours ago, Oacjay98 said:

I would have to agree. I suppose the method was to aim higher but we know some of those demands are long shots to not gonna happen.

 

I get that but it also provides ammunition for your naysayers-which is where they dropped the ball...they didn't seem to consider the backlash of the internet playing a role in this. 

 

Look at what happened with UPS and their union negotiations-all I heard about pre settlement was them asking for AC in their delivery vehicles...then after the settlement was memes of them apparently making $170K a year...all with little to no backlash. 

[paintguy]

21 hours ago, hllywd said:

I'm Legacy so I'm still in the pension crowd. Frankly, I wouldn't mind converting from pension to 401k. I'd have more choices and more control over investments. And, as a divorced employee, I can't leave my pension to my kids. 401k can be passed on. And remember people like the Steel workers who showed up one day and the doors were chained shut. Company closed their doors forever and the pensions were gone. I'm not convinced my pension will still be there by the time I can retire.

Flexibility is rough with pensions. The pension defaults are minimized with ERISA laws. Reductions in benefits usually come with high amounts. One impetus for the law was the bankruptcy of the Studebaker pension fund. Ford took some hits to income over the years to meet mandated funding. As a salary retiree, crossing my fingers that it maintains solvency for at least 20 more years. UAW does the health segment with the VEBA negotiated some years back. Regulations on health benefits seem weaker.  Let's hope company and union bean counters and stock pickers choose wisely.

[jpd80]

21 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

Think of it as the union is looking for a landing spot for if/when the engine and transmission plants are no longer needed. 

Yeah, just taking that thought a step further,

If the transition to BEVs is going to take longer, those engine and transmission plants will probably need to stay longer, especially if hybrids play into the mix. Heck, it might push manufacturers to develop ultra efficient ICE that power hybrids with super low emissions, keeping the whole damn thing in limbo for another 5-10 years while battery tech improves.

Edited September 30, 2023 by jpd80

[fuzzymoomoo]

43 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

Citation please...

 

Edited October 2, 2023 by fuzzymoomoo

[Oac98]

On 9/29/2023 at 2:30 PM, silvrsvt said:

 

That is the problem-the making those requests/demands just sets bad optics for the greater public and for the news/social media pundits to use against the union. That is where the mistake they made...why not focus on pay increases and COLA, which most people would find reasonable given the price increases etc. But no we are going to clutter up everything by asking for assinne things that don't do anything but act as ammo for people to attack the union. 

Yep some things he’s said seem to be far fetched raising expectations in which likely will not be fulfilled in all aspects.

[silvrsvt]

"Keep in mind, these battery plants don't exist yet. They're mostly joint ventures. They've not been organized by the UAW yet because workers haven't been hired and won't be for many years to come," Farley said. "The UAW is scaring our workers by repeating something that is factually not true. None of our workers today are going to lose their jobs due to our battery plants during this contract period or even beyond this contract. In fact, for the foreseeable future, we will have to hire more workers as some workers retire, in order to keep up with the demand of our incredible new vehicles."

 

Farley says UAW is holding Ford hostage over battery plants: We would've had a compromise

[rperez817]

18 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

Farley says UAW is holding Ford hostage over battery plants: We would've had a compromise

 

Does Farley have plans to meet with UAW leaders for bargaining sometime soon?

[silvrsvt]

[fuzzymoomoo]

10 hours ago, rperez817 said:

 

Does Farley have plans to meet with UAW leaders for bargaining sometime soon?

If the union is to be believed, Farley hasn’t been present through the vast majority of the negotiations. 

[fuzzymoomoo]

1 hour ago, silvrsvt said:

Yes. Yes yes yes. For the love of god, yes. 

[jpd80]

6 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

Yes. Yes yes yes. For the love of god, yes. 

That’s a bloody good deal, the UAW should wrap things up and vote ASAP.

Edited October 4, 2023 by jpd80

[fuzzymoomoo]

2 hours ago, jpd80 said:

That’s a bloody good deal, the UAW should wrap things up and vote ASAP.

Shitty part is, I don’t think it will pass because of the pensions for all crowd.