UAW Demands 46% Pay Hike

[Chrisgb]

10 minutes ago, akirby said:

The problem is you chose a job with little to no opportunity for advancement.  My wife and I both started at entry level positions 37 yrs ago.  I had a 4 yr degree, she did not (but got hers later).  I’ve been promoted 7 times and make 4 times my starting salary adjusted for inflation.  Wife has also been promoted 6 or 7 times and now makes 5 times her original salary.  That took hard work, dedication and time.  And you may have to change jobs multiple times or move to a different city.  Or you start out as an apprentice electrician, become a licensed electrician then start your own business and hire others.  That’s how you get ahead in the real world.  

 

 

13 jobs spanning 52 years and 4 career changes (not including military service), here. "What a long strange trip it's been," indeed! The lesson for me was, don't trade personal freedom for cradle-to-grave security. My first full time job taught me that. I worked as a Teamster on a vacuum cleaner assembly line, making nearly what Ford TCAP line people were making, after 6 months. After that, just a matter of gaining seniority for more vacation & bumping rights. Personally, I never understood the practice of calling the employer "Unfair." I agreed to do the work under the physical and financial provisions of the agreement in place. The next 40-ish years didn't look promising to me, but i got the blue collar complacency and stayed until the company left 17 years later. The security blanket was ripped off and I was out in the cold. I stumbled around selling life insurance, doing various other unskilled jobs, and later selling cars. A bankruptcy and a separation, later, I went to truck driving school and "paid my dues" working my way through successive employers, proving my worth and overcoming the challenges along the way. I was accepted at a Hazardous Material Special Waste Hauler company earning the industry's top wages (More miles, more smiles).Today we live quite comfortably, having landed in retirement on our feet.

I believe that our three children learned a lot from watching our struggles and how we worked through them. All are now employed in rewarding careers all have changed jobs and sought more training or education a few times, including my Union son, who risked leaving an assembly line job and started apprenticeship machinist training. 4 years of school, working third shift with two kids, and now a journeyman experimental engineering machinist, nearly doubling his income within the same company. 

 

[fuzzymoomoo]

7 minutes ago, Chrisgb said:

I believe that our three children learned a lot from watching our struggles and how we worked through them. All are now employed in rewarding careers all have changed jobs and sought more training or education a few times, including my Union son, who risked leaving an assembly line job and started apprenticeship machinist training. 4 years of school, working third shift with two kids, and now a journeyman experimental engineering machinist, nearly doubling his income within the same company. 

You bring up a great point. I’m glad I’m starting my apprenticeship now so my kids will be able to see the sacrifices I’m making to provide for them, at least the older two. The youngest being 3 probably won’t understand until I’m nearly finished. 

[akirby]

11 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

You bring up a great point. I’m glad I’m starting my apprenticeship now so my kids will be able to see the sacrifices I’m making to provide for them, at least the older two. The youngest being 3 probably won’t understand until I’m nearly finished. 

I have no doubt you’ll be successful and your kids probably will too.

[mackinaw]

Nolan Finley, and editor for the Detroit News, has suggested this:

 

"The United Auto Workers again expanded its strike , shutting down Ford's vital Kentucky Truck Plant. President Shawn Fain may shut other plants today. The automakers should respond to the escalation by locking out the UAW from all plants and pulling their offers from the table."

[fordmantpw]

1 hour ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

You bring up a great point. I’m glad I’m starting my apprenticeship now so my kids will be able to see the sacrifices I’m making to provide for them, at least the older two. The youngest being 3 probably won’t understand until I’m nearly finished. 

 

This is what it's about!  Busting your tail and making something of yourself, and showing your kids what it takes to get something you want.  It sucks your kids will have to suffer some of those sacrifices, but it's a great lesson for them to learn.  Best of luck to you...I'm sure you'll succeed!

[fuzzymoomoo]

1 hour ago, mackinaw said:

Nolan Finley, and editor for the Detroit News, has suggested this:

 

"The United Auto Workers again expanded its strike , shutting down Ford's vital Kentucky Truck Plant. President Shawn Fain may shut other plants today. The automakers should respond to the escalation by locking out the UAW from all plants and pulling their offers from the table."

Where did you see that? I would like to read the whole thing 

[ice-capades]

1 hour ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

Where did you see that? I would like to read the whole thing 

 

This is the link included in the quote...

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/2023/10/12/uaw-strike-day-28-union-meets-with-stellantis-after-new-ford-strike/71152893007/?utm_source=detroitnews-nolan-out-loud-strada&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=joanarrative&utm_term=narrative&utm_content=pdtn-detroit-nletter19

[mackinaw]

1 hour ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

Where did you see that? I would like to read the whole thing 

 

I enjoy, and agree, with Nolan Finley on a lot of what writes.  I subscribe to the Detroit News.  What I quoted, was from his "Nolan Out Loud" newsletter I get a few times a week.  There's nothing more to his quote than what I posted.  

 

Not that it matters, Finley has been driving F-series trucks for decades.  

[fuzzymoomoo]

42 minutes ago, mackinaw said:

 

I enjoy, and agree, with Nolan Finley on a lot of what writes.  I subscribe to the Detroit News.  What I quoted, was from his "Nolan Out Loud" newsletter I get a few times a week.  There's nothing more to his quote than what I posted.  

 

Not that it matters, Finley has been driving F-series trucks for decades.  

Well I disagree that it needs to be taken quite to that extreme based on the comments I’m seeing from the general membership but I firmly believe that at this point the only way this gets settled is through arbitration, which would be a gigantic L for Shawn Fain. 

[jpd80]

I’m thinking back to the last agreement where GM had already moved a significant amount

of production to Mexico. Maybe Ford shoulda built that third plant in Mexico for new vehicles

and return truck production back to Cuautitlan, show the UAW that it too can be creative with

the future….

Edited October 13, 2023 by jpd80

[fuzzymoomoo]

22 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

I’m thinking back to the last agreement where GM had already moved a significant amount

of production to Mexico. Maybe Ford shoulda built that third plant in Mexico for new vehicles

and return truck production back to Cuautitlan, show the UAW that it too can be creative with

the future….

AFAIK they still own the land and the structure is partially built. Might be a good time to tell the union GFY. 

[mackinaw]

2 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

Well I disagree that it needs to be taken quite to that extreme based on the comments I’m seeing from the general membership but I firmly believe that at this point the only way this gets settled is through arbitration, which would be a gigantic L for Shawn Fain. 

 

Locking out all UAW workers would never happen.  If GM and Stellantis did the same, it'd plunge this country into a deep recession and none of the Detroit Three would want to be responsible for that.  

[jpd80]

1 hour ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

AFAIK they still own the land and the structure is partially built. Might be a good time to tell the union GFY. 

Or simply remind the UAW that Ford has other options…..

 

Edit,

Not that Ford would but,

1) Canada - Oakville is a huge plant which could take over  all of Kansas City F150 & Transit production 

2) Mexico - Cuautitlan was formerly a SD plant which could be reconfigured to replace Kentucky Truck Plant  while a new San Louis Potosi plant could cover all compact and mid sized BEVs.

 

As I said above, Ford is not looking at those options but the UAW needs to understand  

the consequences if it keeps poking the bear……

Edited October 14, 2023 by jpd80

[jpd80]

1 hour ago, mackinaw said:

 

Locking out all UAW workers would never happen.  If GM and Stellantis did the same, it'd plunge this country into a deep recession and none of the Detroit Three would want to be responsible for that.  

I think you’re overvaluing the importance of the auto industry as most new buyers would either

 extend their leases or hold off buying a new vehicle or worse, go to companies like Toyota.

[ExplorerDude]

1 hour ago, jpd80 said:

Or simply remind the UAW that Ford has other options…..

 

Edit,

Not that Ford would but,

1) Canada - Oakville is a huge plant which could take over  all of Kansas City F150 & Transit production 

2) Mexico - Cuautitlan was formerly a SD plant which could be reconfigured to replace Kentucky Truck Plant  while a new San Louis Potosi plant could cover all compact and mid sized BEVs.

 

As I said above, Ford is not looking at those options but the UAW needs to understand  

the consequences if it keeps poking the bear……

My even deeper sources have told me that the San Louis Potosi plans have been dusted off already…..

[jpd80]

43 minutes ago, ExplorerDude said:

My even deeper sources have told me that the San Louis Potosi plans have been dusted off already…..

Isn’t it amazing how things keep coming back around, it makes me wonder if Ford about to give itself an extra plant capacity  to do rolling changes to other products?

 

 

The view in 2017:

Ford’s perceptions of market demand were a bit different at the time, San Louis Potosi cancelled because Ford saw a reduction in small vehicle demand…….some interesting history here including plans to move Focus to Hermosillo (which changed to import for China to cancelled outright)

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/01/03/ford-ceo-main-reason-for-canceling-mexico-plant-was-market-demand-not-trump.html

 

Ancient history:

In early 2017, Fields cancelled $1.6 B SLP plant and intended moving autonomous EV production (Fusion) to Flat Rock $700 M + 700 jobs before being transferred to Ohio and then went into limbo.

Ancient history 2

Gen 2 BEVs originally intended to be built alongside Mach E at Cuautitlan were then delayed because of battery shortages before being transferred to Oakville. Those mid sized boxy  three row utilities were then assigned different project numbers and morphed into three row swept crossovers.

All the above shows that Ford has adapted to changing conditions but maybe it’s time to play offence and make more money.

 

Edited October 14, 2023 by jpd80

[Oac98]

32 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

Isn’t it amazing how things keep coming back around, it makes me wonder if Ford about to give itself an extra plant capacity  to do rolling changes to other products?

 

 

The view in 2017:

Ford’s perceptions of market demand were a bit different at the time, San Louis Potosi cancelled because Ford saw a reduction in small vehicle demand…….some interesting history here including plans to move Focus to Hermosillo (which changed to import for China to cancelled outright)

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/01/03/ford-ceo-main-reason-for-canceling-mexico-plant-was-market-demand-not-trump.html

 

Ancient history:

In early 2017, Fields cancelled $1.6 B SLP plant and intended moving autonomous EV production (Fusion) to Flat Rock $700 M + 700 jobs before being transferred to Ohio and then went into limbo.

Ancient history 2

Gen 2 BEVs originally intended to be built alongside Mach E at Cuautitlan were then delayed because of battery shortages before being transferred to Oakville. Those mid sized boxy  three row utilities were then assigned different project numbers and morphed into three row swept crossovers.

All the above shows that Ford has adapted to changing conditions but maybe it’s time to play offence and make more money.

 

Which we’re still waiting to see! What’s with the secrecy in regards to these products?? Will this strike if prolonged affect future product rollouts??

[jpd80]

11 minutes ago, Oacjay98 said:

Which we’re still waiting to see! What’s with the secrecy in regards to these products?? Will this strike if prolonged affect future product rollouts??

I wonder if there’s been an unfavourable response to proposed swept 3- row utilities from  research clinics,

maybe those people preferring boxy 3-row utilities?

Edited October 14, 2023 by jpd80

[Oac98]

6 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

I wonder if there’s been an unfavourable response to proposed swept 3- row utilities from  research clinics,

maybe those people preferring boxy 3-row utilities?

They need to get them right, if they had to go back to change some designs for the better then good! 

[jpd80]

Remembering that Ford changed the styling to improve perceived battery range, maybe that change in style killed interest from buyers in the research clinic?

Edited October 14, 2023 by jpd80

[ExplorerDude]

6 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

Remembering that Ford changed the styling to improve perceived battery range, maybe that change in style killed interest from buyers?

The Lincoln version looks okay, pretty decent in an evolution of Lincoln’s styling. The sleek look works well for Lincoln. I’m not worried about the Lincoln if it comes out how it currently is.
 

My biggest concern is the Ford variant. It’s just not attractive. I don’t know how it got so far without someone saying hey let’s remember that actual buyers have to want to buy this.

 

It’s radically different. I’m sure it will sell some but I don’t know how they can sell a lot of them every year in a plant that will be building just these two crossovers.

 

If they sell 50,000 units a year combined it would be a miracle.

[jpd80]

18 minutes ago, ExplorerDude said:

The Lincoln version looks okay, pretty decent in an evolution of Lincoln’s styling. The sleek look works well for Lincoln. I’m not worried about the Lincoln if it comes out how it currently is.
 

My biggest concern is the Ford variant. It’s just not attractive. I don’t know how it got so far without someone saying hey let’s remember that actual buyers have to want to buy this.

 

It’s radically different. I’m sure it will sell some but I don’t know how they can sell a lot of them every year in a plant that will be building just these two crossovers.

 

If they sell 50,000 units a year combined it would be a miracle.

And this is the thing that Ford still doesn’t get, stop treating Lincoln like an upper trim of Ford,

make the top hats different……..maybe afraid of killing Explorer sales?

Edited October 14, 2023 by jpd80

[akirby]

8 hours ago, jpd80 said:

And this is the thing that Ford still doesn’t get, stop treating Lincoln like an upper trim of Ford,

make the top hats different……..maybe afraid of killing Explorer sales?

Huh?  Lincoln already has unique top hats and the BEVs are apparently radically different.

[fuzzymoomoo]

1 hour ago, ExplorerDude said:

My even deeper sources have told me that the San Louis Potosi plans have been dusted off already…..

I heard a few things today I’m not at liberty to discuss that makes this not surprising at all. 

[rmc523]

9 hours ago, ExplorerDude said:

The Lincoln version looks okay, pretty decent in an evolution of Lincoln’s styling. The sleek look works well for Lincoln. I’m not worried about the Lincoln if it comes out how it currently is.
 

My biggest concern is the Ford variant. It’s just not attractive. I don’t know how it got so far without someone saying hey let’s remember that actual buyers have to want to buy this.

 

It’s radically different. I’m sure it will sell some but I don’t know how they can sell a lot of them every year in a plant that will be building just these two crossovers.

 

If they sell 50,000 units a year combined it would be a miracle.

sounds almost similar to Flex vs explorer type differences here