New Jersey to Require 35% Electric Vehicle Sales by 2026

[grbeck]

1 hour ago, Footballfan said:

It's most likely this will be dragged out in the courts for decades to come.

 

I can see this being quickly repealed when it starts affecting people. 

 

Like many policies driven by virtue signaling, support melts when voters have to live up to their professed ideals (Exhibit A in that regard is the reaction of self-proclaimed "Sanctuary Cities" to actually having to deal with an influx of illegal immigrants). 

 

If new-vehicle buyers - who tend to be more affluent, and thus more likely to vote - suddenly find themselves paying considerably more for a vehicle whose supply has been limited by this mandate, they will loudly let their state representative know how they feel about it. 

[Rick73]

I like data and was curious where New Jersey stood on BEV sales in order to get rough idea on how much growth it will take to get to 35% in 3 years.

 

There is much in article I don’t agree with, but copying link anyway because  that’s where data came from.  Please note data is for cumulative number of vehicles over many years, not sales rate.

 

https://cleantechnica.com/2023/09/22/electric-vehicle-sales-in-us-hit-the-accelerator-pedal/
 

[Joe771476]

Did anybody see my take on climate change here? I posted it, took a picture of it, but now it's gone. Why?

[rperez817]

14 minutes ago, Joe771476 said:

Did anybody see my take on climate change here? 

 

In this thread? No.

[ice-capades]

24 minutes ago, Joe771476 said:

Did anybody see my take on climate change here? I posted it, took a picture of it, but now it's gone. Why?

 

I saw your post after it had already been hidden but just went to read it again. In my opinion, to be polite, it was off topic and not applicable to the thread subject.  

[ice-capades]

20 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

 

In this thread? No.

 

You not only saw it but reacted to it! Knock it off with your nonsense!

[paintguy]

New Jersey not exactly a big state. Many areas near either Pennsylvania,  New York, or Delaware. So if NJ rules hold, lets say a NJ resident decides to buy a car in Pennsylvania. Is the restriction on manufacturers? So Ford would need to restrict ICE supply to NJ dealers? Or are dealers responsible on that level? 

[Captainp4]

On 11/21/2023 at 8:16 AM, HotRunrGuy said:

Last time I was there, NJ did not allow self-service refueling.  If that is still the case, I wonder if they require charging stations to be manned?

 

HRG

Last time I was there, with my dad in my 6.0 diesel, we thought ALL fueling couldn't be done by yourself... we sat for probably 20 minutes waiting for one of the employees to fill up my 6.0 before one of them came over and told us that they don't do diesel and we had to fill it ourselves ? We were just trying to follow the rules, but I guess we weren't informed enough lol

[silvrsvt]

18 hours ago, paintguy said:

New Jersey not exactly a big state. Many areas near either Pennsylvania,  New York, or Delaware. So if NJ rules hold, lets say a NJ resident decides to buy a car in Pennsylvania. Is the restriction on manufacturers? So Ford would need to restrict ICE supply to NJ dealers? Or are dealers responsible on that level? 

 

Apparently there is no enforcement regulation that I see that makes any requirements...yet

 

Not to mention your already dealing with an unpleasant situation most of the time when buying a car, why are you going to compound the pain by driving an hour or so to another state and then deal with the tax issues on it. 

Edited November 27, 2023 by silvrsvt

[rperez817]

19 hours ago, paintguy said:

New Jersey not exactly a big state. Many areas near either Pennsylvania,  New York, or Delaware. So if NJ rules hold, lets say a NJ resident decides to buy a car in Pennsylvania. Is the restriction on manufacturers? So Ford would need to restrict ICE supply to NJ dealers? Or are dealers responsible on that level? 

 

Among the states that are close to New Jersey, both New York and Maryland have already adopted CARB Advanced Clean Cars II rule. Pennsylvania and Delaware adopted some CARB regulations, but not Advanced Clean Cars II.

 

[Rick73]

1 hour ago, rperez817 said:

Among the states that are close to New Jersey, both New York and Maryland have already adopted CARB Advanced Clean Cars II rule. Pennsylvania and Delaware adopted some CARB regulations, but not Advanced Clean Cars II.

Is that primarily to reduce GHGs?

 

[rperez817]

27 minutes ago, Rick73 said:

Is that primarily to reduce GHGs?

 

 

Advanced Clean Cars II aims to reduce GHGs as well improve air quality by reducing criteria pollutants (ozone, carbon monoxide, nitrogen dioxide, sulfur dioxide, and PM10 and PM2.5) from cars and light trucks.

 

Here is the excerpt from CARB's Advanced Clean Cars II FAQ addressing both. Cars and Light-Trucks are Going Zero - Frequently Asked Questions | California Air Resources Board

Are zero emission vehicles actually cleaner than gas cars?

In full electric mode, an electric car produces zero tailpipe emissions, dramatically lowering smog and greenhouse gas emissions even when considering electricity generation. And even when considering emissions from the powerplant, electric vehicles are cleaner than gas cars. For instance, in California, where 45% of electricity is currently generated from fossil fuels, a gas car would need to get 134 mpg to match an electric vehicle. 

U.S. Department of Energy has developed a Beyond Tailpipe Calculator to estimate the total greenhouse gas emissions for your electric vehicle or plug-in hybrid-electric vehicle. You can enter your ZIP Code and calculate the tailpipe emissions for your car. The calculator includes upstream emissions to produce the car and battery.

[paintguy]

5 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

 

Apparently there is no enforcement regulation that I see that makes any requirements...yet

 

Not to mention your already dealing with an unpleasant situation most of the time when buying a car, why are you going to compound the pain by driving an hour or so to another state and then deal with the tax issues on it. 

Most Eastern States have that worked out with a transfer of the vehicle. Tax paid to your jurisdiction. Did it several times when I lived in Delaware. Delaware has no "sales tax" and charges a title transfer which acts like a tax. Some dealers in small states do act like they are the only game available. (This was before my time with Ford A-plan makes it easier). Quite a few in NJ work in Pennsylvania, Delaware or NY and already deal with tax issues. I worked in NJ for 10 years while living in Delaware. 

[silvrsvt]

18 hours ago, paintguy said:

Most Eastern States have that worked out with a transfer of the vehicle. Tax paid to your jurisdiction. Did it several times when I lived in Delaware. Delaware has no "sales tax" and charges a title transfer which acts like a tax. Some dealers in small states do act like they are the only game available. (This was before my time with Ford A-plan makes it easier). Quite a few in NJ work in Pennsylvania, Delaware or NY and already deal with tax issues. I worked in NJ for 10 years while living in Delaware. 

 

Right but at the same time the amount of people who work out of state from NJ I don't think are looking to buy a car out of it either-I live in an area where a lot of people commuted into NYC (which I'm sure has changed since COVID) and they are taking buses and other mass transit into the city. 

 

I know the tax implications for DE vs other states is weird also-they nail you with a yearly tax on your car vs a fixed fee like NJ does. So that no sales taxes is made up by other taxes. I lived in MD for a few years and my payroll taxes where about $100-150 higher per paycheck then they where in NJ and in the grand scheme of things only made the difference in property taxes only $1-2K a year (vs what I'm paying now that i'm back in NJ) with living in an area in MD that had economic and other social issues-plus it was a major pain in the ass driving to Home Depot (Took an hour round trip vs 15-20 minutes now lol)

[GearheadGrrrl]

Sounds like when Minnesota required emissions testing, suddenly a lot of vehicles were registered to mailboxes in Wisconsin...

[Joe771476]

It won't happen. Gov. of CT just nixed the vote on a 2035 mandate. Manufacturers and even governments are slowly but surely abandoning these EV's and mandates. Finally some sense!

[rperez817]

1 hour ago, Joe771476 said:

Manufacturers and even governments are slowly but surely abandoning these EV's and mandates. 

 

Not at all. Ford Motor Company (among other manufacturers) remains committed to a 100% ZEV product lineup by 2035 in "all leading markets", and governments of the following U.S. states adhere to the CARB Advanced Clean Cars II standards discussed in this thread.

• California
• Colorado
• Maryland
• Massachusetts
• New Jersey (administrative rule issued; first applicable model year not finalized)
• New Mexico
• New York
• Oregon
• Vermont
• Virginia
• Washington

By the latter part of the decade, U.S. federal government may harmonize its own ZEV mandates with CARB's, just as it did back in 2014 when EPA Tier 3 vehicle emissions standards were harmonized with CARB LEV III. This provides consistency for automakers across all 50 states.

Edited November 28, 2023 by rperez817

[akirby]

3 hours ago, Joe771476 said:

It won't happen. Gov. of CT just nixed the vote on a 2035 mandate. Manufacturers and even governments are slowly but surely abandoning these EV's and mandates. Finally some sense!

Overreact much?  You and Dean should throw a party together.  Nobody is abandoning EVs.  

[Deanh]

57 minutes ago, akirby said:

Overreact much?  You and Dean should throw a party together.  Nobody is abandoning EVs.  

twist words much? it may seem I feel that way sometimes, but I have never said anyone was or should abandon anything...slowing down, yes, and rightfully so....abandoning no...its a reality check....pretty much something Ive said from the get go...

Edited November 28, 2023 by Deanh

[jpd80]

On 11/29/2023 at 8:01 AM, Deanh said:

twist words much? it may seem I feel that way sometimes, but I have never said anyone was or should abandon anything...slowing down, yes, and rightfully so....abandoning no...its a reality check....pretty much something Ive said from the get go...

Correct, there’s no reason why Ford couldn’t go full bore with hybrids that reduce fuel usage in a wide variety of products sold every day. Offering buyers more choices and let them decide what level of electrification they want. Reaching the majority of buyers is where change is possible, it also makes good business sense to educate the majority on how good electrification can be.

Edited November 30, 2023 by jpd80

[silvrsvt]

2 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Correct, there’s no reason why Ford couldn’t go full bore with hybrids that reduce fuel usage in a wide variety of products sold every day. Offering buyers more choices and let them decide what level of electrification they want. Reaching the majority of buyers is where change is possible, it also makes good business sense to educate the majority on how good electrification can be.

 

So from a business standpoint (customer demand not being considered at this point) are you going to put a limited resource into a product that doesn't have that much upside profit wise or a product that will have a much bigger margin in the future?

 

That is why you saw the push towards EVs and also don't discount the press overplaying the whole EV thing just like they are overplaying the slow down at the moment. The truth is somewhere in the middle.

[Gurgeh]

36 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

 

So from a business standpoint (customer demand not being considered at this point) are you going to put a limited resource into a product that doesn't have that much upside profit wise or a product that will have a much bigger margin in the future?

 

That is why you saw the push towards EVs and also don't discount the press overplaying the whole EV thing just like they are overplaying the slow down at the moment. The truth is somewhere in the middle.

There is no business standpoint that puts aside consumer demand.

 

But I do understand that the big government push (correctly read both ways) to go all-electric is increasingly forcing companies that need to provide what consumers want in order to stay in business to shift to products that aren't in as much demand, banking on the government to force consumers to demand something else because at some point what they want will no longer be permitted to be made.

[jpd80]

7 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

 

So from a business standpoint (customer demand not being considered at this point) are you going to put a limited resource into a product that doesn't have that much upside profit wise or a product that will have a much bigger margin in the future?

I’d argue that it’s not an either/or choice but if Ford’s main thrust with BEVs is attracting few customers than it must by logic, seek other avenues to sell hybrids, either as economy or power adders but critically, vehicles that continue to help Ford improve its CAFE position until BEVs come back to prominence.

 

Quote

 

That is why you saw the push towards EVs and also don't discount the press overplaying the whole EV thing just like they are overplaying the slow down at the moment. The truth is somewhere in the middle.

Oh there’s definitely a slow down happening, the deniers keep saying that sales are greater than last year, while ignoring  the stifled H2 sales figures. All BEV manufacturers are feeling the pinch.

 

Anyway, November sales figures are only a couple of days away, that will give us more evidence either way…

Edited November 30, 2023 by jpd80
Typo

[akirby]

You can’t force buyers to buy a certain type of vehicle.  You can only control what’s manufactured or what gets shipped to each state not what people buy.

 

The best strategy for mfrs is to develop EV technology and infrastructure while expanding hybrids and cutting back (but not stopping) ICE programs.  Nobody knows where the market will be in 10 years despite what the politicians and environmentalists say.

[rperez817]

1 hour ago, Gurgeh said:

But I do understand that the big government push (correctly read both ways) to go all-electric is increasingly forcing companies that need to provide what consumers want in order to stay in business to shift to products that aren't in as much demand, banking on the government to force consumers to demand something else because at some point what they want will no longer be permitted to be made.

 

The relationship between government and automakers was described perfectly by Aaron Robinson of Car and Driver.

 

The relationship between government and [automotive] industry follows this pattern: Government demands something, the industry screams that it's impossible, and then it delivers exactly what was demanded. Repeat steps one through three about 67,000 times and you define the modern automobile.

 

When CARB formulated the ZEV targets in Advanced Clean Cars II, they were deliberately conservative, maybe to reduce the likelihood that "the industry screams that it's impossible".