Ford to Rethink Where It Builds Its Vehicles.

[fuzzymoomoo]

1 hour ago, silvrsvt said:

what about all the assembly line workers who call out on unauthorized sick day the first day of hunting season, basically knee caping any production for a day or two?

Hell, it was 65 degrees here last Friday and there was a shit ton of people who called in that day. 

[HotRunrGuy]

31 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

Hell, it was 65 degrees here last Friday and there was a shit ton of people who called in that day. 

 

Well, it WAS National Pizza Day.  Everybody went to Buddy's,,,,,

 

HRG

Edited February 16, 2024 by HotRunrGuy

[grbeck]

2 hours ago, Footballfan said:

If you look at the highest inflation in 50 years we have seen this decade, that 20 percent does not seem so large. 

 

The issue isn't wanting a raise. With the inflation we've experienced, I certainly don't begrudge members this opportunity to "catch up" in real income.

 

The issue is union leadership that seems to take delight in hurting the company that provides jobs to its members, and demonizing the Ford executive team. William Clay Ford, Jr., is hardly the Harry Bennett of the 21st century. 

 

And the idea that the UAW is going unionize the transplant operations with these tactics is a pipe dream. 

[Footballfan]

2 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

 

And what makes the UAW more special than other people that haven't got COLAs or pay raises in the same time?

 

Anyways what this boils down to is that the UAW has broken its relationship with Ford it has had over the past 40 years or so. Being adversarial to your employer isn't good for your job stability long term.  

Not saying that, but if you are paying dues to a union you expect the best most lucrative contract.  I'm not a fan of Fain but the UAW now elected is presidents not appoint them.  If Fain did not come up with a bold contract the membership would vote him out the next election. 

[Footballfan]

2 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

 

So since we are painting with platitudes here, what about all the assembly line workers who call out on unauthorized sick day the first day of hunting season, basically knee caping any production for a day or two?

Saying one group has it better than the other is disingenuous 

 Please read my last sentence of my post 

[Footballfan]

1 hour ago, iamweasel said:

 

And those folks on the line have every opportunity to get that engineering or designer job if they want. 

 

That may be true, but most engineers and designers never spent a day on the line- they were hired right out of college.  

[Sherminator98]

13 minutes ago, Footballfan said:

 I'm not a fan of Fain but the UAW now elected is presidents not appoint them.  If Fain did not come up with a bold contract the membership would vote him out the next election. 

 

Like I said don't underestimate stupidity in large numbers.

 

If the UAW can unionize the transplant plants in the next couple of years, that might make things harder, but if that effort falls apart, I think Ford, GM and Stelantis will play hardball with them in 2028. I can see Louisville and Flat Rock getting the shitty end of the stick if goes down like that. 

[Footballfan]

27 minutes ago, grbeck said:

 

The issue isn't wanting a raise. With the inflation we've experienced, I certainly don't begrudge members this opportunity to "catch up" in real income.

 

The issue is union leadership that seems to take delight in hurting the company that provides jobs to its members, and demonizing the Ford executive team. William Clay Ford, Jr., is hardly the Harry Bennett of the 21st century. 

 

And the idea that the UAW is going unionize the transplant operations with these tactics is a pipe dream. 

I agree, and as I posted I don't like Fain's tactics.  However, a lot of the people I talk too thought the UAW was too weak- not necessarily my opinion.  CEOs take some of the blame too- a lot of bad decisions have been made at Ford (and GM and Chrysler for that matter) since the start of this century.  

[Sherminator98]

13 minutes ago, Footballfan said:

That may be true, but most engineers and designers never spent a day on the line- they were hired right out of college.  

 

That should be taken care of by mentoring and company training. in the grand scheme of things engineers don't know everything (contrary to popular belief) when they get done with schooling and training of engineers is another wide spread issue in the worlds workforce that isn't an automotive industry issue only. 

[Footballfan]

13 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

 

Like I said don't underestimate stupidity in large numbers.

 

If the UAW can unionize the transplant plants in the next couple of years, that might make things harder, but if that effort falls apart, I think Ford, GM and Stelantis will play hardball with them in 2028. I can see Louisville and Flat Rock getting the shitty end of the stick if goes down like that. 

Let's hope it does not come to that.  You're right, a lot of people blindly follow their union "leadership"

Edited February 16, 2024 by Footballfan

[iamweasel]

12 minutes ago, Footballfan said:

That may be true, but most engineers and designers never spent a day on the line- they were hired right out of college.  

 

Many of them do rotations on the line as part of the program.  (As I did right out of college....worked on the line at Michigan Truck Plant.)

 

 

[jpd80]

So where from here.

I remember back when Mulally brought manufacturing jobs back to the US and in particular, Michigan.

While Ford appeared to do that for the best reasons, it also wanted the UAW to take the burden of

pension liabilities. So in some ways, everyone got something from that deal.

 

Fast forward to 2023 and the UAW unrest where many of the rank and file were expecting a catch up

deal to make up for the lean years and what Fain delivered was exactly that…..but at a heck of a cost.

Now, Ford is actively looking to move future projects away from the US.

 

Everything hit Ford at once, an aggressive UAW contract with higher ongoing costs right when there

is a downturn in vehicle sales but worse, Ford’s big hope of that BEV sales ramp up is not happening.

 

So how pissed off are the Ford  brass, how far would they go with production changes to risk off the next 

UAW contract, how many plants would they be looking to pull back production and move to Mexico?

There are  are loads of questions in there and perhaps looking at what’s planned to happen in this contract

will show us where Ford can change things beyond the end of this term?

[DeluxeStang]

So at what point can Fain's actions be considered blackmail or extortion? Literally forcing a brand to buy you off otherwise you're going to use your considerable levels of influence to damage their reputation, and cost them hundred of millions if not billions of dollars in lost revenue via strikes. I know this is a gray area, there's probably some contractual bullshit that protects Fain from facing legal blowback from Ford, but this is ridiculous. Fain doesn't care that his unrealistic demands will cost countless Americans their jobs. 

Edited February 16, 2024 by DeluxeStang

[fuzzymoomoo]

1 hour ago, iamweasel said:

Many of them do rotations on the line as part of the program. 

Not the way they used to. It’s only a few days at most now

[DeluxeStang]

1 hour ago, grbeck said:

The issue is union leadership that seems to take delight in hurting the company that provides jobs to its members, and demonizing the Ford executive team. William Clay Ford, Jr., is hardly the Harry Bennett of the 21st century. 

It's fucking insane is what it is. This is what happens when the person leading others is a mouth breathing moron with an "Us against them" mentality. They stir up contention and division rather than encouraging everyone to work together in a way that's mutually beneficial for all. Forget biting the hand that feeds, Fain is stabbing it over and over without a care in the world

[akirby]

1 hour ago, DeluxeStang said:

So at what point can Fain's actions be considered blackmail or extortion? Literally forcing a brand to buy you off otherwise you're going to use your considerable levels of influence to damage their reputation, and cost them hundred of millions if not billions of dollars in lost revenue via strikes. I know this is a gray area, there's probably some contractual bullshit that protects Fain from facing legal blowback from Ford, but this is ridiculous. Fain doesn't care that his unrealistic demands will cost countless Americans their jobs. 

It’s legal extortion thanks to labor laws and to think otherwise is just not being honest.  And if that pisses off some people I don’t care.  It’s the truth.

[rmc523]

On 2/15/2024 at 2:40 PM, akirby said:

Also I think the general public is much more on Ford’s side given the outrageous demands and the subsequent strike.  Much more than years past.

 

Also, when the guy is already talking about a strike for the next contract, it makes it hard to want to side with that guy.

[jpd80]

53 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

 

Also, when the guy is already talking about a strike for the next contract, it makes it hard to want to side with that guy.

Exactly, it’s only a matter of time before Ford reacts with changes that commence just beyond the end of this contract. Heck, GM transferred a ton on new production to Mexico a few years back and shut like three or four plants, the UAW struck for a while but we’re always going to fold.

 

Edited February 17, 2024 by jpd80

[DeluxeStang]

2 hours ago, akirby said:

It’s legal extortion thanks to labor laws and to think otherwise is just not being honest.  And if that pisses off some people I don’t care.  It’s the truth.

I understand there have to be protections for this sort of thing. Otherwise union leaders would be afraid of pushing back against these brands. But there also needs to be a limit, a sense of proportionality and reason from unions, and I'm not seeing that with people like Fain. In fact, I believe the UAW today threatened to strike at the super duty plant. I'd imagine that's at least in part due to Farley's comments. 

 

So Farley criticizes the UAW for being unreasonable, and they respond by being unreasonable, proving his point. My God, it's like the boyfriend who gets into a fight because he gets called out for being too aggressive. Do these people really lack this much self awareness? 

[Bob Rosadini]

6 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

Hell, it was 65 degrees here last Friday and there was a shit ton of people who called in that day. 

Do you have a sick day policy where after so many days in x months you have to have a doc's note or something like that?

[Bob Rosadini]

Are any  Mexico plants operating with only one shift?  Then again I've always felt Mexico was less than a safe bet in terms of political stability.

[Sherminator98]

34 minutes ago, Bob Rosadini said:

Do you have a sick day policy where after so many days in x months you have to have a doc's note or something like that?

 

If you look at the UAW contract, they have that spelled out. They actually tightened it up, but of course people are gonna take advantage of it.

[fuzzymoomoo]

1 hour ago, Bob Rosadini said:

Do you have a sick day policy where after so many days in x months you have to have a doc's note or something like that?

probably. I have no clue what it is, I don’t abuse the system. 

[jpd80]

54 minutes ago, Bob Rosadini said:

Are any  Mexico plants operating with only one shift?  Then again I've always felt Mexico was less than a safe bet in terms of political stability.

There’s only two production plants in Mexico, Hermosillo (Maverick and Bronco Sport) and Cuautitlan (Mach E)

Last year, Ford ramped up production on Mach E only to find buyers didn’t increase so they’ve been fighting this 

for nearly a year. Similarly, production at Hermosillo was ramped up later in 2023 which has resulted in increased

inventory as well but I think dealers can shift Maverick and Bronco Sport more quickly than Mach E.

 

Hopefully, improving weather into spring improves dealership foot traffic  and walk in buyers see what they want.

[tbone]

10 hours ago, Footballfan said:

If you want to talk greed, let's start at the CEO level.  The engineer or designer works in a nice air conditioned office, sits in a comfy chair all day, and can walk out of the office at the end of a workday without any aches or pains.  I have the highest respect for those folks on the line who come in every day and do their jobs.  

I love it when people castigate the CEOs for their pay. Im relatively certain that you would switch jobs with the CEO if you could to receive that pay.  Maybe not though, considering they’re responsible for the entire company, and whether it goes in the right direction, or the wrong direction and implications of those decisions. CEO gets paid with the market will bear for that type of position. If you don’t like it, go put yourself in a position to become a CEO.

 

I respect anybody willing to work from the janitor to the CEO, but people make choices that put them in a position to work a given job. Some people have an easier time making those choices based on their life circumstances, but that’s life and sometimes you have to work harder than others to put yourself in the best position.