Ford Delays EV Bronco and Maverick

[akirby]

2 hours ago, Dequindre said:

How do you know that? STLA Large hasn't launched yet.

Because what you have to do to support ICE (fuel tanks, cooling, drive shafts, heavy engine)  compromises a BEV only design.  Unless they’re really making 2 different STLA large platforms and just calling them the same.

[DeluxeStang]

10 hours ago, akirby said:

They're too far along to stop now.  They’ve already cancelled all the current Edge and Nautilus suppliers so keeping the old one isn’t an option, and to bring Edge here requires a new greenhouse at least.

Why don't they bring the Chinese edge here? They're already planning on importing other models from China, the Chinese edge is hands down the best looking edge we've had in some time. Buyers who wanted a boxy midsized family hauler would be all over this thing. I've mentioned before if the edge doesn't align enough with Ford's new strategy of selling passion products, they could just rebrand this product as the explorer sport or something else with better name recognition. 

 

Edit: Saw your and Oakjay's later comments. I'm surprised you guys don't like how it looks, based off other posts, it seems like you both tend to gravitate towards boxier styling. I agree it's not the most striking or special looking vehicle in the world, but I generally prefer it over the lump that is the current edge design. I find it to be quite attractive, especially in this color. 

.

Edited February 23 by DeluxeStang

[jpd80]

13 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

 

If they want to close the plant and pay back 1.8+ billion in loans and you want to be out of a job, they could.

 

It is better to keep the plant open and not lose the workforce. 

OAC is turning into a shit sandwich of epic proportions, the best thing Ford can do is lump it

and keep going, it needs to at least see a ROI for the development but let’s not forget that

part of that CN$1.8 billion investment is also for a battery plant separate to Oakville

 

12 hours ago, akirby said:

They're too far along to stop now.  They’ve already cancelled all the current Edge and Nautilus suppliers so keeping the old one isn’t an option, and to bring Edge here requires a new greenhouse at least.

I’m curious to know who those suppliers are and suspect that since CD4 Edge/Nautilus was developed from EUCD which itself was an expansion of the original C1 (sorry for the torture)

maybe many of them also supply for C2 vehicles?
 

So while last supply orders for Nth American CD4s were locked in 12 months ago, I wonder how quickly

a C2 Edge/Nautilus with hatchback rear would take to develop if done as an extension of the current

3-row Edge…. How serious are Ford?

 

10 hours ago, akirby said:

I would have agreed 6 months ago but with the shift on EVs they might be rethinking that.  Too bad they F’ed up the Chinese version with dull styling and a 3rd row.  They could at least have imported it in the meantime.

As I mentioned above, how far would Ford go to reverse course and build a restyled C2 Edge/Nautilus

in North America? Ford is pretty much committed to building the EVs at OAC and backing out would

cause major delays to a replacement arriving but in such a large facility,  is there an  opportunity to build  

more than one vehicle type that also use batteries like Edge /Nautilus hybrid PHEV ?

Instead of either/or, could Ford be open to both of them?

 

If not OAC, perhaps Louisville which already builds C2 vehicles?

Now the counterpoint,

Sorry, beyond my  enthusiasm, I just don’t see the  Ford I know making immediate major changes

and at the moment, they’re probably laser focused (LOL) on cutting red ink rather than adding to it.

Edited February 23 by jpd80

[fuzzymoomoo]

8 hours ago, DeluxeStang said:

Why don't they bring the Chinese edge here? They're already planning on importing other models from China, the Chinese edge is hands down the best looking edge we've had in some time. Buyers who wanted a boxy midsized family hauler would be all over this thing. I've mentioned before if the edge doesn't align enough with Ford's new strategy of selling passion products, they could just rebrand this product as the explorer sport or something else with better name recognition. 

 

Edit: Saw your and Oakjay's later comments. I'm surprised you guys don't like how it looks, based off other posts, it seems like you both tend to gravitate towards boxier styling. I agree it's not the most striking or special looking vehicle in the world, but I generally prefer it over the lump that is the current edge design. I find it to be quite attractive, especially in this color. 

.

That’s a nice Hyundai 

Edited February 23 by fuzzymoomoo

[Oac98]

7 hours ago, jpd80 said:

OAC is turning into a shit sandwich of epic proportions, the best thing Ford can do is lump it

and keep going, it needs to at least see a ROI for the development but let’s not forget that

part of that CN$1.8 billion investment is also for a battery plant separate to Oakville

 

I’m curious to know who those suppliers are and suspect that since CD4 Edge/Nautilus was developed from EUCD which itself was an expansion of the original C1 (sorry for the torture)

maybe many of them also supply for C2 vehicles?
 

So while last supply orders for Nth American CD4s were locked in 12 months ago, I wonder how quickly

a C2 Edge/Nautilus with hatchback rear would take to develop if done as an extension of the current

3-row Edge…. How serious are Ford?

 

As I mentioned above, how far would Ford go to reverse course and build a restyled C2 Edge/Nautilus

in North America? Ford is pretty much committed to building the EVs at OAC and backing out would

cause major delays to a replacement arriving but in such a large facility,  is there an  opportunity to build  

more than one vehicle type that also use batteries like Edge /Nautilus hybrid PHEV ?

Instead of either/or, could Ford be open to both of them?

 

If not OAC, perhaps Louisville which already builds C2 vehicles?

Now the counterpoint,

Sorry, beyond my  enthusiasm, I just don’t see the  Ford I know making immediate major changes

and at the moment, they’re probably laser focused (LOL) on cutting red ink rather than adding to it.

At our online ratification zoom meeting we were told that a potential 3rd product could come here in the next few years. Is it possible yes do I believe it no.  If they even ever do it when do you think a C2 Edge Nautilus would be built in North America at the earliest??

[Oac98]

12 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

That’s a nice Hyundai 

lol 

[Oac98]

8 hours ago, DeluxeStang said:

Why don't they bring the Chinese edge here? They're already planning on importing other models from China, the Chinese edge is hands down the best looking edge we've had in some time. Buyers who wanted a boxy midsized family hauler would be all over this thing. I've mentioned before if the edge doesn't align enough with Ford's new strategy of selling passion products, they could just rebrand this product as the explorer sport or something else with better name recognition. 

 

Edit: Saw your and Oakjay's later comments. I'm surprised you guys don't like how it looks, based off other posts, it seems like you both tend to gravitate towards boxier styling. I agree it's not the most striking or special looking vehicle in the world, but I generally prefer it over the lump that is the current edge design. I find it to be quite attractive, especially in this color. 

.

I just don’t think that looks anything like an Edge. It’s just a big 7 seat crossover that won’t see North America unless they shrink it down to 5 seat and changed the styling. 5 seaters are a commodity to Farley so I still doubt it will ever happen although possible.

[akirby]

The Chinese Edge is not a good looking vehicle to me nor do I think Edge buyers would like it.  It needs an entirely new greenhouse and shorter wheelbase to sell here IMO.

[Oac98]

12 minutes ago, akirby said:

The Chinese Edge is not a good looking vehicle to me nor do I think Edge buyers would like it.  It needs an entirely new greenhouse and shorter wheelbase to sell here IMO.

Agreed

[Gurgeh]

50 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

That’s a nice Hyundai 

I think the only similarity in exterior styling with this Hyundai and the Chinese Edge is that they are both 2-box crossovers. I do agree with others that the Chinese Edge doesn't fit the slot of the outgoing North American Edge. It was designed to be too big and has one too many rows. However, for a mainstream Ford product I find it looks much like a Lincoln (and in my view that's a good thing) and almost nothing like a Hyundai. Smooth, sleek, more like it was carved from a stone than like it was put together from body panels -- almost Range Roverish. And as for those who argue Ford can just import it, remember the 25% tariff. Because of the tariff FMC is probably making little, if any, from the Nautilus import, but the import was necessary to preserve Lincoln's shrinking line-up. I expect they would lose money on each Ford Edge they brought to the U.S.

[Captainp4]

2 hours ago, akirby said:

The Chinese Edge is not a good looking vehicle to me nor do I think Edge buyers would like it.  It needs an entirely new greenhouse and shorter wheelbase to sell here IMO.

I like it besides whatever is happening there on the C pillar, but does look larger, almost explorer size, hard to tell from those pictures.

[silvrsvt]

46 minutes ago, Captainp4 said:

I like it besides whatever is happening there on the C pillar, but does look larger, almost explorer size, hard to tell from those pictures.

 

Its about 2 inches shorter than an Explorer and almost 7 inches longer than the NA Edge. 

[DeluxeStang]

4 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

That’s a nice Hyundai 

Again, it's not the most distinct design, but neither is the current N. American edge, which was a profile very similar to the Lexus rx 350 from around 2010, which looks far more generic than the Hyundai above. 

[DeluxeStang]

4 hours ago, Oacjay98 said:

I just don’t think that looks anything like an Edge. 

So don't sell it as the next edge. The edge was never iconic anyways, but the explorer is. Expand the explorer sub-brand, take the third row out, all of a sudden, you have a two row crossover with class leading rear cargo capacity. 

 

Retrain your brains to look at that design not as the next edge perhaps, but as an explorer sport or something. I firmly believe what's throwing you guys off isn't the styling, but the fact that it's called an edge when it doesn't look like any other generation of edge. Call it explorer, and you'd be surprised by how quickly the styling starts to look natural. 

 

I wasn't a fan of this design at first. But it's grown on me. 

[akirby]

33 minutes ago, DeluxeStang said:

So don't sell it as the next edge. The edge was never iconic anyways, but the explorer is. Expand the explorer sub-brand, take the third row out, all of a sudden, you have a two row crossover with class leading rear cargo capacity. 

 

Retrain your brains to look at that design not as the next edge perhaps, but as an explorer sport or something. I firmly believe what's throwing you guys off isn't the styling, but the fact that it's called an edge when it doesn't look like any other generation of edge. Call it explorer, and you'd be surprised by how quickly the styling starts to look natural. 

 

I wasn't a fan of this design at first. But it's grown on me. 

The greenhouse is fine if it was shortened and sloped a little more in the rear but it’s really the front end I don’t like.  It’s too upright.  Edge was successful because of its sporty styling and perfect size.

 

Now if you want to go RWD then just bring Everest and keep the truck styling.  Won’t replace edge styling wise but should garner enough sales and would support Raptor and off road versions.  Problem is where do you build it.

[Oac98]

1 hour ago, DeluxeStang said:

So don't sell it as the next edge. The edge was never iconic anyways, but the explorer is. Expand the explorer sub-brand, take the third row out, all of a sudden, you have a two row crossover with class leading rear cargo capacity. 

 

Retrain your brains to look at that design not as the next edge perhaps, but as an explorer sport or something. I firmly believe what's throwing you guys off isn't the styling, but the fact that it's called an edge when it doesn't look like any other generation of edge. Call it explorer, and you'd be surprised by how quickly the styling starts to look natural. 

 

I wasn't a fan of this design at first. But it's grown on me. 

You make some valid points, it doesn’t look like any Edge at all that’s forsure. We will see what ford if anything will do about this whole situation. 

[DeluxeStang]

2 hours ago, akirby said:

The greenhouse is fine if it was shortened and sloped a little more in the rear but it’s really the front end I don’t like.  It’s too upright.  Edge was successful because of its sporty styling and perfect size.

 

Now if you want to go RWD then just bring Everest and keep the truck styling.  Won’t replace edge styling wise but should garner enough sales and would support Raptor and off road versions.  Problem is where do you build it.

The issue with the current edge, is it lost its edge. You see this a lot with certain products. They try to be sporty, futuristic, all of that to appeal to younger buyers. Then someone comes in, and says "Well if we make it a bit more generic, it won't be as polarizing, and it'll appeal to more buyers". You do that enough, and what you're left with a melted cheese looking blob on wheels that lacks most of what made it appealing in the first place. This is essentially the same thing that happened with brands like Saturn and Scion. 

 

I like the idea of bringing the everest here, but as you mentioned, there is the issue of where to build it. Perhaps instead of bringing the everest here, Ford could incorporate much of what makes the Everest desirable,  the boxy styling, rugged image, enclosed roof, and fold that into a new bronco trim. A bronco with a permanently attached roof that's a touch more refined. 

 

That could appeal to some edge buyers, and some consumers who want an Everest style vehicle, and Ford could make them in the same factory where they make all the other broncos. This could cause other issues, the bronco/ranger plant is already struggling to produce product fast enough, so adding another variant would only exasperate the issue. But that's for Ford to figure out

[DeluxeStang]

1 hour ago, Oacjay98 said:

You make some valid points, it doesn’t look like any Edge at all that’s forsure. We will see what ford if anything will do about this whole situation. 

That's my line of thinking as well. I understand this Chinese edge isn't a flawless vehicle. I'm just trying to think of what Ford can do to fill the void the edge is going to leave behind. 

 

It seems like the Oakville three rows were intended to be indirect replacements for the edge, but they aren't going over well to put it lightly. I'm just looking at what Ford can offer, and fast. Trying to replace the edge last minute and quickly, basically the only way you're gonna be able to do that is by grabbing something that already exists in other parts of the world. Looking at midsized 5-7 seater crossovers, that basically means your choices are Everest, evos, or edge. All good offerings, but as we've discussed, they also have their own share of downfalls. 

 

It'll be challenging for sure. Trying to find a way to stay in that segment, and doing so in a way that aligns with Ford's newer strategy of getting away from commodity products. 

[92merc]

Since Lincoln Nautilus is C2 based, it would only make sense to build a new Edge off the same C2. Share powertrains.  Try to build with US suppliers.

 

Back on topic though, Bronco sport needs hybrid options ASAP.  Shift battery product slated for EV's that are going to happen to all of the C2 platform.

[HotRunrGuy]

3 hours ago, DeluxeStang said:

So don't sell it as the next edge. The edge was never iconic anyways, but the explorer is. Expand the explorer sub-brand, take the third row out, all of a sudden, you have a two row crossover with class leading rear cargo capacity. 

 

 

And keep the OAL the same?  No thanks, that extra 10" makes a difference in how it fits in my garage.

 

HRG

Edited February 23 by HotRunrGuy

[Oac98]

2 hours ago, DeluxeStang said:

That's my line of thinking as well. I understand this Chinese edge isn't a flawless vehicle. I'm just trying to think of what Ford can do to fill the void the edge is going to leave behind. 

 

It seems like the Oakville three rows were intended to be indirect replacements for the edge, but they aren't going over well to put it lightly. I'm just looking at what Ford can offer, and fast. Trying to replace the edge last minute and quickly, basically the only way you're gonna be able to do that is by grabbing something that already exists in other parts of the world. Looking at midsized 5-7 seater crossovers, that basically means your choices are Everest, evos, or edge. All good offerings, but as we've discussed, they also have their own share of downfalls. 

 

It'll be challenging for sure. Trying to find a way to stay in that segment, and doing so in a way that aligns with Ford's newer strategy of getting away from commodity products. 

If the three row Bevs aren’t being well received why the hell is Ford forcing them out?? You seem to have knowledge of people not liking them. I also think Ford wants Mach E sales to increased with the Edge on its way out. Maybe they just want the existing products they have to fill that void. Lincoln has minimal product so keeping Nautilus alive was a no brainer. 

[akirby]

33 minutes ago, Oacjay98 said:

If the three row Bevs aren’t being well received why the hell is Ford forcing them out?? You seem to have knowledge of people not liking them. I also think Ford wants Mach E sales to increased with the Edge on its way out. Maybe they just want the existing products they have to fill that void. Lincoln has minimal product so keeping Nautilus alive was a no brainer. 

Many times focus groups are wrong.  It’s a very small sample size.  You only need to appeal to 100k - 200k buyers a year so you can find a niche.  Especially if it’s something unique.

 

Not saying that’s the case here but I’m sure that’s the thinking if they’re continuing.  Then again that’s probably what Pontiac said about the Aztec…. ?

[jpd80]

54 minutes ago, akirby said:

Many times focus groups are wrong.  It’s a very small sample size.  You only need to appeal to 100k - 200k buyers a year so you can find a niche.  Especially if it’s something unique.

 

Not saying that’s the case here but I’m sure that’s the thinking if they’re continuing.  Then again that’s probably what Pontiac said about the Aztec…. ?

You’re right about that but think about what the product is exactly and the price.

Ford is basically offering an equivalent to the Tesla X which begs the question of

what will  starting price for the Ford version vs the Lincoln versions be?

Tesla dropped the starting price of X to $79k, they know few are interested 

so what does that tell us about Ford/Lincoln versions and actual interest?

 

Looking at Tesla in the current vehicle slow down:

I’m wondering if Tesla will find itself boxed into building mostly 2, 3 and Y.

Like Lightning reservations, Cybertruck orders are not a guaranteed thing,

much of that may evaporate by the time product ramp up happens in ‘25.

Edited February 23 by jpd80

[2005Explorer]

6 hours ago, akirby said:

The greenhouse is fine if it was shortened and sloped a little more in the rear but it’s really the front end I don’t like.  It’s too upright.  Edge was successful because of its sporty styling and perfect size.

 

Now if you want to go RWD then just bring Everest and keep the truck styling.  Won’t replace edge styling wise but should garner enough sales and would support Raptor and off road versions.  Problem is where do you build it.

Everest is T6. They'd have to run it down the line with Rangers and Broncos to be cost effective.

[DeluxeStang]

2 hours ago, Oacjay98 said:

If the three row Bevs aren’t being well received why the hell is Ford forcing them out?? You seem to have knowledge of people not liking them. I also think Ford wants Mach E sales to increased with the Edge on its way out. Maybe they just want the existing products they have to fill that void. Lincoln has minimal product so keeping Nautilus alive was a no brainer. 

I don't have any insider info, I'm just going off of what credible insiders who's seen the finished product have said, people like jmd80 and ExplorerDude. As what why Ford would go ahead with producing them, they don't really have another choice. The current edge isn't competitive, and if Ford wants to bring back a c2 edge or something else, it's going to take a while to put those plans into place. They need something to sell in the meantime even if it isn't going to sell particularly well.