Expedition Refresh

[Dlcorbett]

4 hours ago, rmc523 said:

 

ST would make no sense on Expy

 

It would essentially be what the stealth performance package is now, even if they name it just st-line.

 

It's true gm doesn't bring over previous design components to new gens, but if I recall, 2025 is the first time they're even doing a mid cycle refresh on their fs suvs.  They normally sell so well, they don't do refreshes, just add features and let them ride into a complete redesign.  Gm makes so much mo ey on their suvs they can afford to redo the body every time they redesign ot.

[rmc523]

58 minutes ago, tbone said:

For me, as I have mentioned before, the character line down the side profile makes it stand out that it is the same body since 2018.   That can’t be hidden.  I think smooth panels hide the age of the body better and allow the focus to be on the front and rear changes. 
 

I don’t recall GM carrying over body panels from one generation to another.  

 

31 minutes ago, Dlcorbett said:

 

It would essentially be what the stealth performance package is now, even if they name it just st-line.

 

It's true gm doesn't bring over previous design components to new gens, but if I recall, 2025 is the first time they're even doing a mid cycle refresh on their fs suvs.  They normally sell so well, they don't do refreshes, just add features and let them ride into a complete redesign.  Gm makes so much mo ey on their suvs they can afford to redo the body every time they redesign ot.

 

I was going to mention this exact point - GM typically has skipped refreshes altogether, so a drastic change is more necessary.

 

Ford has done this on the past between new generations on F-150 ('04-08/'09-'14 comes to mind).

 

While changing the door sheetmetal would be ideal, I don't think it'll be the dealbreaker it's being made out to be.

[ausrutherford]

6 hours ago, rmc523 said:

 

ST would make no sense on Expy.

 

 

I guess they want to have all the crossovers/SUVs (sans Bronco) to have the same trim names.

 

 

This is the standard for the segment for companies with entrants from regular and luxury brands.

 

the GM triplets are the same between the front/rear clip.  Nissan/Infiniti are the same too.

 

A cheaper alternative to the Escalade V?

[DeluxeStang]

4 hours ago, tbone said:

For me, as I have mentioned before, the character line down the side profile makes it stand out that it is the same body since 2018.   

Apparently it's limited by the doors. I believe someone was saying the doors are carry over, along with the roof, but the rest of the panels are all new. The issue is if you can't change the doors, and that character line running along them, then you basically have to keep that character line running along the fender and quarter panel, even if they're new.

 

It makes it look like the old design, but it would look even worse if you have a character line running along the doors that terminated abruptly once it reached the fenders. Unfortunate, but no way around it really. 

Edited July 22 by DeluxeStang

[fuzzymoomoo]

4 hours ago, DeluxeStang said:

Apparently it's limited by the doors. I believe someone was saying the doors are carry over, along with the roof, but the rest of the panels are all new.

That’s what they did with Mustang and Ranger too. In the Ranger’s case the inner door was changed but the outer is the same. 

[Dlcorbett]

6 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

That’s what they did with Mustang and Ranger too. In the Ranger’s case the inner door was changed but the outer is the same. 

 

Looking at the spied interior shots, ford changed the door cards for the expy as well.  They won't be using the tucked in squeeze handles but more traditional pull type handles.

[rmc523]

10 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

That’s what they did with Mustang and Ranger too. In the Ranger’s case the inner door was changed but the outer is the same. 

 

Guess it must be expensive to change the door skin lol.

[tbone]

14 hours ago, DeluxeStang said:

Apparently it's limited by the doors. I believe someone was saying the doors are carry over, along with the roof, but the rest of the panels are all new. The issue is if you can't change the doors, and that character line running along them, then you basically have to keep that character line running along the fender and quarter panel, even if they're new.

 

It makes it look like the old design, but it would look even worse if you have a character line running along the doors that terminated abruptly once it reached the fenders. Unfortunate, but no way around it really. 

Yes, they had no choice but to leave it due to the line running into the rear quarter.  Without changing that stamping they were stuck. But for that line, they were already changing the front quarters so I’m guessing the door skin stamping wouldn’t have been too expensive to change. 

[rmc523]

5 minutes ago, tbone said:

Yes, they had no choice but to leave it due to the line running into the rear quarter.  Without changing that stamping they were stuck. But for that line, they were already changing the front quarters so I’m guessing the door skin stamping wouldn’t have been too expensive to change. 

 

Yeah, they had to change the front and rear quarter panels to accommodate the new headlight/taillight designs, but I guess it was too expensive to change the doors.

[Dlcorbett]

Welp hopefully that many went into other developments.

[akirby]

49 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

 

Yeah, they had to change the front and rear quarter panels to accommodate the new headlight/taillight designs, but I guess it was too expensive to change the doors.

if you showed the new one to 1000 people 999 would see the new front and rear and say it’s new.  1 would complain about the side profile being the same.

[tbone]

42 minutes ago, akirby said:

if you showed the new one to 1000 people 999 would see the new front and rear and say it’s new.  1 would complain about the side profile being the same.

We are going to find out how the general public thinks about it soon enough. Make no mistake, I want it to be successful.  

 

1 hour ago, rmc523 said:

 

Yeah, they had to change the front and rear quarter panels to accommodate the new headlight/taillight designs, but I guess it was too expensive to change the doors.

Can anyone explain why the door skins would have been expensive to change?  The doors are two parts, frame and exterior skin.  The interior would not have needed to change necessarily.  I would think the stampings for the quarters would be more expensive.  

[silvrsvt]

13 minutes ago, tbone said:

Can anyone explain why the door skins would have been expensive to change?  The doors are two parts, frame and exterior skin.  The interior would not have needed to change necessarily.  I would think the stampings for the quarters would be more expensive.  

 

One possibility is that it could require additional testing due to side impact standards? 

[akirby]

6 hours ago, tbone said:

We are going to find out how the general public thinks about it soon enough. 

Way too many variables to lay success or failure on one tiny design feature.

 

If they didn’t change the front or rear you’d have a better argument.

[tbone]

7 hours ago, akirby said:

Way too many variables to lay success or failure on one tiny design feature.

 

If they didn’t change the front or rear you’d have a better argument.

It really wasn’t an argument. I was more referring to the complete vehicle and not specifically the character line.  

[akirby]

9 hours ago, tbone said:

It really wasn’t an argument. I was more referring to the complete vehicle and not specifically the character line.  

I really don’t understand your obsession that the entire vehicle has to be completely changed.  There has to be some changes to entice repeat buyers but a good or even great design should not be scrapped just for the sake of being different.  I think F150 and Porsche 911 are perfect examples of great designs that just get tweaked every few years and are highly successful.

[Dlcorbett]

I think the counterpoint is, as successful as the expy is, ford never really does enough to it to rele make it a run for gms money.  There has been a few times when the expy rele had a chance to get Into sales, like the 03 model, and the 18 nav, but theres always something that ford does that prevents the fs suvs to crest that hump.  I dnt think the doors themselves need to be changed, however the expy front seems too tame compared to the 4th gen, which was already tame, but handsome.

[silvrsvt]

9 minutes ago, Dlcorbett said:

I think the counterpoint is, as successful as the expy is, ford never really does enough to it to rele make it a run for gms money.  There has been a few times when the expy rele had a chance to get Into sales, like the 03 model, and the 18 nav, but theres always something that ford does that prevents the fs suvs to crest that hump.  I dnt think the doors themselves need to be changed, however the expy front seems too tame compared to the 4th gen, which was already tame, but handsome.

 

I think the driving force behind that is having limited production for it with the Super Duty. That shouldn't be an issue once Oakville is up and running. 

[tbone]

4 hours ago, Dlcorbett said:

I think the counterpoint is, as successful as the expy is, ford never really does enough to it to rele make it a run for gms money.  There has been a few times when the expy rele had a chance to get Into sales, like the 03 model, and the 18 nav, but theres always something that ford does that prevents the fs suvs to crest that hump.  I dnt think the doors themselves need to be changed, however the expy front seems too tame compared to the 4th gen, which was already tame, but handsome.

This is effectively my position.  The F Series is the leader of its segment, so it does not need to take big chances.  Ford comes out with the Expy in 2018 and it is a very competitive product, and makes some headway but then sputters for lack of timely change.  This new generation could have continued to move the needle, but based on what I see it’s a relatively conservative change.  If they were the segment leader I could understand this but they are not.  
 

4 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

 

I think the driving force behind that is having limited production for it with the Super Duty. That shouldn't be an issue once Oakville is up and running. 

 

Now if this is the reason, I can understand it to a certain extent, but wouldn’t you want to have a vehicle that could exceed demand, which not only benefits Ford by helping prevent incentives, but also the dealer being able to sell the vehicles at MSRP or above as is the case with the Maverick?

[akirby]

2 hours ago, tbone said:

 

Now if this is the reason, I can understand it to a certain extent, but wouldn’t you want to have a vehicle that could exceed demand, which not only benefits Ford by helping prevent incentives, but also the dealer being able to sell the vehicles at MSRP or above as is the case with the Maverick?

When you’re limited by production capacity then you have to balance the investment against the return.  Plus it’s a relatively small segment.   Take out the brand loyalists for GM, Toyota and Nissan and no matter what you do you’re just not going to move the needle very much.    Suburban is 90 years old and Ford has only competed the last 25 years. 
 

They’ve done the math and the juice isn’t worth the squeeze.

 

 

[balthisar]

KTP body and final assembly areas are completely independent of each other, and each has its own management teams and hourly team members. Practically speaking, they're two different assembly plants under the same roof.

Edited July 25 by balthisar

[T-dubz]

I’d like to see a full redesign too. This generation of expedition and navigator have a bloated look to them. The front ends on both look great, but the body takes away from that. I’d like to see ford trim up the expedition like they did the explorer. Hopefully the next redesign will take care of that.

[Dlcorbett]

Though thr 4th gens look good, they are def dated.  I actually feel they look less bloated and unsubstantiated sitting next to their competitors.  The wagoneer and gms have a larger footprint overall, but their overhang and broad upright grills give them a more stately posture and look.  The fords look sporty and light in comparison, but looks incomplete at the same time.

[T-dubz]

7 minutes ago, Dlcorbett said:

Though thr 4th gens look good, they are def dated.  I actually feel they look less bloated and unsubstantiated sitting next to their competitors.  The wagoneer and gms have a larger footprint overall, but their overhang and broad upright grills give them a more stately posture and look.  The fords look sporty and light in comparison, but looks incomplete at the same time.

Ha, you are def right about the wagoneer. That thing is hideous and oddly proportioned. I really like the profile of the Escalade ev. I wish the nav/expedition would look something like that.

Edited July 25 by T-dubz

[Dlcorbett]

One thing I do like is ford suvs lwb variants are proportioned excellently.  The suburban n wagoneer l look like hearses on comparison.