Texasota Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 1 hour ago, mackinaw said: You don't need to charge an EREV. Once the battery pack is exhausted, the gas engine turns on and charges the battery. The only stop you'll have to make is to fill the gas tank for the ICE. True, but I was responding to the point about heavy duty towing and how an EREV becomes a disaster once the battery has become depleted. You will have a small displacement ICE burdened by an inefficient drive train trying to keep a super duty truck (with a heavy depleted battery pack) and a 12,000 pound trailer moving. It won't be any fun at all driving up a long interstate grade in that situation (20-25 MPH?). I'm not saying there aren't outstanding use cases for an EREV. @Captainp4 described a use case that would be good for an EREV Super Duty. But for long distance heavy duty towing (e.g. snowbirds with a 5th wheel) an EREV would a poor choice. A Super Duty Powerboost would be much better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 The engine in an EREV only needs to charge the battery. It does not provide propulsion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 1 hour ago, sullynd said: The engine in an EREV only needs to charge the battery. It does not provide propulsion. And it’s not going to provide enough power to keep the battery charged while driving. It just slows the battery drain to extend the range by a couple hundred miles, maybe more. You don’t have to charge - you could stop and let the ICE charge it but recharging at a charging station would be preferred. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying68 Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 Guess some people need primers on the various electrification scenarios. BEV - Battery Electric Vehicle - Propulsion from electric motor, energy storage through a large capacity batter. Plug in charging only. FCEV - Fuel Cell Electric Vehicle - Propulsion from electric motor, energy storage in a hydrogen cylinder, fuel cell reacts H2 with O2 to produce electricity. Refuel at a hydrogen station. HEV - Hybrid Electric Vehicle - Propulsion from both a electric motor and ice either in series or parallel through a transmission or split front and back, energy storage in gasoline/diesel tank and small battery to capture regenerative braking and provide energy to electric motor. ICE charges the battery. Vehicle can operate off either ICE or EM or both at the same time. PHEV - Plug-in Hybrid Electric Vehicle - Same as HEV, but with a larger battery that can be charged through a plug-in. EREV - Extended Range Electric Vehicle - A BEV with an onboard generator. All propulsion comes from the EM and battery. ICE generator runs to provided charge to slow depletion of the batter. Can be plugged in to charge and small gasoline / diesel tank filled to operate the generator. DEL - Diesel Electric Locomotive - Large gas turbines or piston engines (diesels) drive large generators to power electric traction motors. No battery, generators directly provided the power required on demand. When it comes to super duty pickups, the best technology right now would be (P)HEV or EREV. Medium duty and HD semi's could go the route of DEL (smaller, optimized generator that can generate constant horsepower while the electric motor provides the big torque) or FCEV (need hydrogen depots at freight centers or truck stops). Full BEV is available but the use case is more limited right now. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 14 hours ago, sullynd said: Do people think T3 eventually replaces F150? I don’t. Assuming it doesn’t, continuing the Lightning makes sense, as eventually ICE will go away. I’m Not at all, the F-150 in ICE/Hybrid forms be around till at least the middle of next decade. The T3 is just an additional model-maybe the Ranger and Bronco will move to it down the road before the F-150 goes fully electric. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 1 minute ago, silvrsvt said: Not at all, the F-150 in ICE/Hybrid forms be around till at least the middle of next decade. The T3 is just an additional model-maybe the Ranger and Bronco will move to it down the road before the F-150 goes fully electric. Exactly. I believe a BEV F150 (whether they continue to call it lightning or not) will continue to exist alongside T3, with the F150 BEV eventually (yeah, not soon) replacing the ICE F150. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 18 minutes ago, sullynd said: Exactly. I believe a BEV F150 (whether they continue to call it lightning or not) will continue to exist alongside T3, with the F150 BEV eventually (yeah, not soon) replacing the ICE F150. Given the disadvantages that an EV pickup would have, the Lightning wouldn't be a good choice for most use cases vs what the T3 would be optimized for. I'm seeing the T3 as something roughly the equivalent to the Rivian RT1 in size, so basically a Ranger or slightly larger product that would be great for a lifestyle vehicle (i.e. the vast majority of people buying a truck for personal transportation) or light duty fleet use like say a parks vehicle or something that isn't required to tow or use its payload to max levels regularly. I don't see a Lightning or any other EV currently being useful to regularly tow a boat or horses around in a "real" work situation....but I'm open to things I've might have missed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 Just now, silvrsvt said: Given the disadvantages that an EV pickup would have, the Lightning wouldn't be a good choice for most use cases vs what the T3 would be optimized for. I'm seeing the T3 as something roughly the equivalent to the Rivian RT1 in size, so basically a Ranger or slightly larger product that would be great for a lifestyle vehicle (i.e. the vast majority of people buying a truck for personal transportation) or light duty fleet use like say a parks vehicle or something that isn't required to tow or use its payload to max levels regularly. I don't see a Lightning or any other EV currently being useful to regularly tow a boat or horses around in a "real" work situation....but I'm open to things I've might have missed. You keep saying RT1. I don’t know what that is. I think you mean R1T. I’ve owned a Lightning for nearly two years, and over 30k miles now. I do truck things all the time, including towing. The Lightning tows like a BEAST. It’s like there is nothing behind you, it’s awesome. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 20 minutes ago, sullynd said: You keep saying RT1. I don’t know what that is. I think you mean R1T. I’ve owned a Lightning for nearly two years, and over 30k miles now. I do truck things all the time, including towing. The Lightning tows like a BEAST. It’s like there is nothing behind you, it’s awesome. How much an impact to range do you have with towing though? I'm not saying its not possible, but if you have to drive say 200+ miles in an EV towing at max load, you may not get there one charge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 33 minutes ago, silvrsvt said: How much an impact to range do you have with towing though? I'm not saying its not possible, but if you have to drive say 200+ miles in an EV towing at max load, you may not get there one charge. The vast majority do not frequently need 200+ miles towing. It’s like people saying they need 500+ miles in a regular EV. I easily get 150 miles towing. The GM trucks get more but by brute force (massive batteries) but with continued development it’s not unreasonable to expect a future Lightning to get 200 miles when towing. 150 miles exceeds the range of the Transit BEV, yet it too has its place in the commercial realm. There was just someone posting the other day in a Lightning forum who tows daily for work - he’s in the roofing/siding business and never exceeds his range. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blazerdude20 Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 Everyone keeps saying Super Duty buyers care about towing... I am not sure that is entirely true. I work on Construction sites daily and occasionally at industrial sites... While some trucks will tow in a trailer or equipment, the vast majority of time the truck is empty or has a large toolbox in the bed. This applies to the 1 ton trucks too. Most material and equipment towing is done by semis or Class 6/7 trucks. Smaller deliveries are done by 450/550 trucks, but those are typically within ~75 miles or less from their shop. A consumer buyer may be worried about towing range, but a lot of commercial buyers very well may not be... They know their use case and the monetary hit. If they can save money on fuel and maintenance, they will go for it. Also, do not forget every time a truck has to be pulled from service for an oil change that is dead time they never get back. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 (edited) On 7/19/2024 at 9:21 PM, jpd80 said: Would love to see the SUVs get a petrol hybrid either from F150 or a 6.8/7.3 hybrid of some sort, I think that would be a game changer against the GM SUVs like Tahoe and Escalator The Escalator must be a new model! 🤣 Edited July 22 by rmc523 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 2 hours ago, silvrsvt said: How much an impact to range do you have with towing though? I'm not saying its not possible, but if you have to drive say 200+ miles in an EV towing at max load, you may not get there one charge. Very few buyers would need to tow a heavy load like a boat or a bobcat more than 200 miles. And the ones that do probably have a super duty not F150. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 On 7/20/2024 at 9:33 AM, silvrsvt said: That has been pretty much spelled out by the UAW contract with the people working on the Lightning having firs dibs for jobs at BOC. I don't see why the Lightning would continue with the new T3 On 7/20/2024 at 7:46 PM, ExplorerDude said: I believe 1 is BOF and is actually based on the next gen F-150 EV but it is completely different. Rumors are this is the F-200. The other is unclear. It could be BOF but I believe this is more of a unibody Van based vehicle. They are serious about Ford Pro and the products it will have especially since this part of FMC’s business is booming. I've had the thought for a while (as others have also said) that the current Lightning could continue on (with refreshes and battery updates) and marketed more toward the Pro customers that want a more typical pickup that's cheaper (they'd have to adjust prices once T3 debuts), whereas T3 is aimed more at non-work buyers that want the latest and greatest. Or at least have them alongside one another ("Lightning classic" if you will.....) for a few years to let everyone transition into the different T3 model. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 On 7/20/2024 at 1:04 PM, silvrsvt said: Well that was before everything changed and EV sales slowed down https://uaw.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/HourlyHighlighter-Ford_FINAL.pdf Thats been a standard thing in every contract since I hired in. Whenever your plant loses production you get first rights to “follow your work.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 On 7/18/2024 at 1:58 PM, Andrew L said: Will those workers be unionized or non union? Union Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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