Detroit’s Worst Nightmare: America Losing Interest In Pickups, SUVs - Autoline Exclusives

[jpd80]

Slate is promising but an effective hook always tells people what they want to hear.

[AM222]

4 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Slate is promising but an effective hook always tells people what they want to hear.

The upcoming Slate pickup/SUV is like an EV version of a pre-2000s entry-level model. The base model is an actual base model. If this were an ICE model its $25K-$27K estimated base price would probably be under $20K, the base price of the Maverick a few years ago. 

Traditional pickups are just getting too expensive everywhere in general.

Edited April 27 by AM222

[Rick73]

12 hours ago, Captainp4 said:

Not sure if completely on topic, but I'm curious to see how the new Slate truck does. It checks all the boxes for all the comment sections/forum people that don't want all the "useless" stuff and want a basic/simple/cheap ride. I'm interested because someone finally is doing it, but I'm betting most of the ones clamoring for it will still find a reason to not buy new and wait it out until it's even cheaper used.

Maverick has done well on the ice/hybrid version of affordable so maybe they're on to something. Their presentation was a little sketchy, but so was every other start ups first time in the spot light so................. who knows, something to watch anyway.

Maverick is made by Ford which has been around for a century, plus as you say it is either ICE or Hybrid which accounts for well over 90% of truck sales, so Slate is not comparable at all in my opinion.  If it fails due to low demand and sales, assuming it makes it to market in the first place, we won’t actually know to what degree being small, 2-door, simple, or relatively cheap was responsible for failure.  That would just be conjecture.

 

As of today not many buyers are purchasing BEV pickups, in part because they are more expensive than equivalent ICE or HEV, but also because they don’t make as much sense.  Pickups in general have much higher energy consumption per driven mile and the Slate  is no different.  Target efficiency is only around 3 miles per kWh, which is not great given its size and weight.  A Lucid sedan which is much larger and heavier is up to 5 miles per kWh, highlighting that pickup trucks poor aerodynamics does make a difference.  In my opinion 150 miles of range under ideal conditions won’t go over well when a buyer can choose a Maverick for same price (excluding $7,500 Slate tax credit).

 

AM222 makes a valid point, and if Slate was ICE built by Ford like an early Ranger, or Toyota built an early Tacoma, with MSRP around $20k, then we would know a lot more about how much cheapness buyers are willing to buy.

 

 

[HotRunrGuy]

Been on the Maverick bandwagon since the start, and currently on my 3rd, but it surprises me how many people bought a Maverick not because it seats 4, or can haul a bunch of mulch or tow a trailer, but because it was a fairly inexpensive hybrid.  There seems to be a LOT of buyers who bought just for the MPG/$$$ equation. It would not surprise me if a 2-door, 2-seat vehicle like the Slate would be popular, IF the price is low enough.

 

HRG

[jpd80]

12 hours ago, AM222 said:

The upcoming Slate pickup/SUV is like an EV version of a pre-2000s entry-level model. The base model is an actual base model. If this were an ICE model its $25K-$27K estimated base price would probably be under $20K, the base price of the Maverick a few years ago. 

Traditional pickups are just getting too expensive everywhere in general.

At the moment Slate is all marketing, let’s see how Bezos goes with actually delivering at that price.

[Captainp4]

10 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

At the moment Slate is all marketing, let’s see how Bezos goes with actually delivering at that price.

Is this one an actual Bezos company or just backing it like he did with Rivian?

[jpd80]

6 minutes ago, Captainp4 said:

Is this one an actual Bezos company or just backing it like he did with Rivian?

Looks like there are several former Amazon executives involved with Slate and the big investor is Jeff Bezos. 
Bezos, via his family office, reportedly holds a passive stake and is not directly involved in the day-to-day business

 

Great plans but I think we need to watch this for a while to see what progress they make.

Edited April 27 by jpd80

[Captainp4]

15 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

Looks like there are several former Amazon executives involved with Slate and the big investor is Jeff Bezos. 
Bezos, via his family office, reportedly holds a passive stake and is not directly involved in the day-to-day business

 

Great plans but I think we need to watch this for a while to see what progress they make.

Yeah, it's definitely interesting and a very loud segment of the market they're trying to address. Time will tell if Slate can deliver and if the squeaky wheels really want the grease or just to squeak.

[rmc523]

On 4/27/2025 at 8:51 AM, Rick73 said:

Maverick is made by Ford which has been around for a century, plus as you say it is either ICE or Hybrid which accounts for well over 90% of truck sales, so Slate is not comparable at all in my opinion.  If it fails due to low demand and sales, assuming it makes it to market in the first place, we won’t actually know to what degree being small, 2-door, simple, or relatively cheap was responsible for failure.  That would just be conjecture.

 

As of today not many buyers are purchasing BEV pickups, in part because they are more expensive than equivalent ICE or HEV, but also because they don’t make as much sense.  Pickups in general have much higher energy consumption per driven mile and the Slate  is no different.  Target efficiency is only around 3 miles per kWh, which is not great given its size and weight.  A Lucid sedan which is much larger and heavier is up to 5 miles per kWh, highlighting that pickup trucks poor aerodynamics does make a difference.  In my opinion 150 miles of range under ideal conditions won’t go over well when a buyer can choose a Maverick for same price (excluding $7,500 Slate tax credit).

 

AM222 makes a valid point, and if Slate was ICE built by Ford like an early Ranger, or Toyota built an early Tacoma, with MSRP around $20k, then we would know a lot more about how much cheapness buyers are willing to buy.

 

So already shifting the goalposts?  "it's everything we want but......"

 

That said, as I've mentioned in other threads, the pricing on that thing doesn't make sense when you have Maverick on the market for nearly the same price with far more features.

 

20 hours ago, HotRunrGuy said:

Been on the Maverick bandwagon since the start, and currently on my 3rd, but it surprises me how many people bought a Maverick not because it seats 4, or can haul a bunch of mulch or tow a trailer, but because it was a fairly inexpensive hybrid.  There seems to be a LOT of buyers who bought just for the MPG/$$$ equation. It would not surprise me if a 2-door, 2-seat vehicle like the Slate would be popular, IF the price is low enough.

 

HRG

 

Makes sense to me regarding Maverick.  And even if they were "only" buying for MPG/$ equation, it's more practical than other competition/body styles unless you truly needed covered space.

[bzcat]

$25K today is effectively the same as $20K in 2021 when Maverick came out with that base MSRP. 

 

Can Slate deliver the truck at that price? Remains to be seen because they don't have production site or have said anything about who is building it.

 

The only important thing to remember is Slate can do a 2 door truck because it is BEV - it can deliver huge MPGe so has no CAFE footprint restrictions. Ford probably did look at making a shorter 2 door Maverick but quickly ruled that out due to CAFE. Next gen Maverick will need to get a lot bigger to stay ahead of that dreaded CAFE curve... or go full electric. 

 

That brings me to the CE1 truck... don't forget Ford's CE1 truck target price is... drumroll... $25K. I don't know if Ford CE1 Maverick will beat Slate to market but I wouldn't bet against it. 

 

 

[jpd80]

I’m wondering if Tesla has quietly killed its low cost EV since the brand has  gone off the boil with sales.

Edited April 28 by jpd80

[DeluxeStang]

2 hours ago, jpd80 said:

I’m wondering if Tesla has quietly killed its low cost EV since the brand has  gone off the boil with sales.

There are rumors this is the case, right around the same time Ford is discussing how they had a breakthrough with affordable battery tech recently. Call me nuts, but with their current trajectories, I can see a future in 10-20 years where Ford is doing better in the ev space than Tesla is. It seems like Tesla is losing steam right as Ford is getting into their stride. 

[ausrutherford]

On 4/23/2025 at 6:37 PM, jpd80 said:

In other news, affordability and higher prices slow new truck sales….

 

As can be seen by Ford’s recent employee pricing campaign, there are plenty of buyers if the price is right.

Or a wide track of pickups of different sizes and price points as well. 

[Rick73]

9 hours ago, rmc523 said:

So already shifting the goalposts?  "it's everything we want but......"

 

That said, as I've mentioned in other threads, the pricing on that thing doesn't make sense when you have Maverick on the market for nearly the same price with far more features.

Do you see this truck in all-or-nothing, black-and-white terms?  That’s not the way the real world works for most people.  Being affordable can not be the main advantage.  IMO a vehicle can be 90% perfect and if the other 10% is flawed enough, rising to level of deal breakers, it won’t sell well.  There are too many other choices.  A vehicle has to be fairly good at pretty much everything to succeed in mass marketplace.

 

Being open minded is not shifting the goal posts.  Objectively, this Slate pickup is very interesting but far from great.  Projected range is limited other than as a city car, charging in MPH rather slow, can’t tow much and bed a little short; though payload acceptable with smaller battery.  Larger battery to increase range may reduce payload even more (yet to be determined).  Biggest disadvantage IMO is that it’s a new company that may not be around long-term.  Who wants to buy what could be the next Fisker?

 

A person can like some aspects or features of a particular thing (like a vehicle) and soundly dislike other parts.  Objectivity requires seeing both the good and bad, and weighing without bias.  I think that if this compact truck was manufactured by a well-established manufacturer its chances of success would be much higher.  And if offered with gas engine, even higher.

 

 

 

[tbone]

On 4/24/2025 at 12:04 PM, fuzzymoomoo said:

Zero interest for me. I know too many people who have been seriously injured and nearly killed riding motorcycles through no fault of their own. One couple I know each lost limbs because someone was driving on the wrong side of the road and forced them off the highway. Another was hit by someone while he was waiting at a red light. Flew 50 feet across a parking lot, shattered his pelvis had a serious concussion, broke his leg in 3 places. He still can’t walk right almost 10 years later.  People drive like absolute morons and it’s not getting any better. 

I grew up racing motocross into my 20s, but I have never owned a street bike because I don’t trust the other people on the road, even though I do love motorcycles.  Not to mention an acquaintance of mine got struck by lightning while riding his motorcycle to Sturgis and subsequently died from it.  At least all of my aches and pains from moto injuries are self inflicted, lol.  

[Rick73]

6 hours ago, jpd80 said:

I’m wondering if Tesla has quietly killed its low cost EV since the brand has  gone off the boil with sales.

They recently announced lower-cost lease deals on Model 3.  Perhaps that’s as “low-cost” as we should expect for now.

 

Anyway, Tesla must know they need a lower-cost BEV to compete in Civic and Corolla space.  Whether they can make it happen is anyone’s guess.

[rmc523]

17 hours ago, jpd80 said:

I’m wondering if Tesla has quietly killed its low cost EV since the brand has  gone off the boil with sales.

 

Yeah, reports are that they've at minimum paused the "low cost" EV (jury is out if it was a unique model or a stripped 3/Y) in favor of the Robotaxi (which I'm still highly skeptical that it serves much of a purpose).

 

10 hours ago, Rick73 said:

Do you see this truck in all-or-nothing, black-and-white terms?  That’s not the way the real world works for most people.  Being affordable can not be the main advantage.  IMO a vehicle can be 90% perfect and if the other 10% is flawed enough, rising to level of deal breakers, it won’t sell well.  There are too many other choices.  A vehicle has to be fairly good at pretty much everything to succeed in mass marketplace.

 

Being open minded is not shifting the goal posts.  Objectively, this Slate pickup is very interesting but far from great.  Projected range is limited other than as a city car, charging in MPH rather slow, can’t tow much and bed a little short; though payload acceptable with smaller battery.  Larger battery to increase range may reduce payload even more (yet to be determined).  Biggest disadvantage IMO is that it’s a new company that may not be around long-term.  Who wants to buy what could be the next Fisker?

 

A person can like some aspects or features of a particular thing (like a vehicle) and soundly dislike other parts.  Objectivity requires seeing both the good and bad, and weighing without bias.  I think that if this compact truck was manufactured by a well-established manufacturer its chances of success would be much higher.  And if offered with gas engine, even higher.

 

Oh I have a variety of concerns about the Slate product.  But it just seems like those that want a small, simple truck have such a specific wish list that unless a company threads a needle perfectly, they won't buy.

[Sherminator98]

The biggest issue with the Slate truck is that it is possibly too bare bones at the price point that they are aiming for with a federal tax credit (which isn’t an discount to vast majority of buyers unless you lease). 
 

So I’m going to assume that if you want something with speakers and a wrap on it and the larger battery, the price point is going to be in the $35-40k range before any discounts. 
 

They have a low target of selling 150k of them, but I think it’s going to be more like 50-75k a year. 
 

I also didn’t see anything about what it is using for charging-like its port or if it’s a 800v system 

[bzcat]

1 hour ago, Sherminator98 said:

The biggest issue with the Slate truck is that it is possibly too bare bones at the price point that they are aiming for with a federal tax credit (which isn’t an discount to vast majority of buyers unless you lease). 
 

So I’m going to assume that if you want something with speakers and a wrap on it and the larger battery, the price point is going to be in the $35-40k range before any discounts. 
 

They have a low target of selling 150k of them, but I think it’s going to be more like 50-75k a year. 
 

I also didn’t see anything about what it is using for charging-like its port or if it’s a 800v system 

 

Slate hasn't release any details on the electrical architecture but with a small battery, the utility of 800V system (fast charging rate) is limited. So I'm guessing it doesn't have anything fancy like that. I would be shocked if Slate uses anything but NACS port. 

 

The sales target is obviously optimistic but keep in mind that Slate is likely going to be focused on fleet sales so it is possible for them to amass a significant order backlog quickly. Despite the splashy headlines about customization for retail customers, I'm fairly sure behind the scenes they are going to work on landing some major fleets. Amazon for example could easily commits to a bunch of these for their grocery and Amazon key delivery services which are done currently using contractor's own cars (as opposed to the regular Amazon delivery in fullsize vans). 

[Rick73]

59 minutes ago, bzcat said:

 

Slate hasn't release any details on the electrical architecture but with a small battery, the utility of 800V system (fast charging rate) is limited. So I'm guessing it doesn't have anything fancy like that. I would be shocked if Slate uses anything but NACS port. 

 

The sales target is obviously optimistic but keep in mind that Slate is likely going to be focused on fleet sales so it is possible for them to amass a significant order backlog quickly. Despite the splashy headlines about customization for retail customers, I'm fairly sure behind the scenes they are going to work on landing some major fleets. Amazon for example could easily commits to a bunch of these for their grocery and Amazon key delivery services which are done currently using contractor's own cars (as opposed to the regular Amazon delivery in fullsize vans). 

Not a lot of details, but their preliminary specs state 20 to 80 percent with 480-Volt fast charge in 30 minutes, using NACS.  Since battery is approximately 50 kWh with +/- 150 miles of range, that’s roughly 30 kWh in 30 minutes or 60 kW average charge rate from 20-80%.  Also means maximum 90 miles of range added during those 30 minutes, or 180 miles per hour.  In my opinion that’s pretty slow compared to say a base Tesla Model 3 that go well above 500 MPH.

 

[rmc523]

1 hour ago, Rick73 said:

Not a lot of details, but their preliminary specs state 20 to 80 percent with 480-Volt fast charge in 30 minutes, using NACS.  Since battery is approximately 50 kWh with +/- 150 miles of range, that’s roughly 30 kWh in 30 minutes or 60 kW average charge rate from 20-80%.  Also means maximum 90 miles of range added during those 30 minutes, or 180 miles per hour.  In my opinion that’s pretty slow compared to say a base Tesla Model 3 that go well above 500 MPH.

 

 

Didn't know Model 3s go that fast!  😛 

[twintornados]

I just traded my 2023 Explorer Timberline for a 2025 Maverick AWD Lariat hybrid....the Explorer was nice, but could not get over 23 MPG even if I drove it off a cliff....

[jpd80]

18 hours ago, Rick73 said:

They recently announced lower-cost lease deals on Model 3.  Perhaps that’s as “low-cost” as we should expect for now.

 

Anyway, Tesla must know they need a lower-cost BEV to compete in Civic and Corolla space.  Whether they can make it happen is anyone’s guess.

With a 70% drop in profit, I think Tesla has some big issues to face. Yes, a low cost 3 is a quick go to

replacement for the proposed low cost BEV but either way Musk needs to be back at Tesla.

[jpd80]

4 minutes ago, twintornados said:

I just traded my 2023 Explorer Timberline for a 2025 Maverick AWD Lariat hybrid....the Explorer was nice, but could not get over 23 MPG even if I drove it off a cliff....

And this is a real world issue, no matter how efficient a heavy utility is, it still uses X amount of fuel.

Looking forward to hearing your experience with Maverick hybrid fuel efficiency - guessing big difference.

[Sherminator98]

1 hour ago, jpd80 said:

With a 70% drop in profit, I think Tesla has some big issues to face. Yes, a low cost 3 is a quick go to

replacement for the proposed low cost BEV but either way Musk needs to be back at Tesla.

The problem with Tesla to a degree is the lack of diversity in their product lineup. A cheaper product from Tesla will just hurt 3/X sales because it won’t be that much different from them and be more appealing to customers in price. I’m sure the S had some sales taken from it the 3 also. 
 

The cyber truck was an attempt at diversifying the lineup but just did everything wrong.