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Here's another article. The main focus of this is that while Rivian and (maybe) Tesla might get their EV trucks to market first, Ford has gone a different way and thus has already won the EV truck wars (because it designed a functional work truck with remarkable capabilities that is buyable by the masses and doesn't look like a post-apocalypse science project). It is uncertain how many EV-truck-for-the-masses Ford is going to be able to produce due to supply constraints, so it's a little premature for a victory lap. But the article makes a good point. https://www.insidehook.com/article/vehicles/ford-f150-lightning-winning-ev-truck-war "...One big change that most truck owners — and especially fleet buyers, which make up a large portion of pickup sales — likely can’t stomach is the huge price increase companies like Tesla and Rivian plan to charge for their electric trucks. For the Cybertruck, the current starting price is listed at $39,900 (though that’s for the single motor rear-wheel drive option; the cheapest all-wheel drive version starts at $49,900). For the R1T, the starting price is $67,500. But for the Lightning, it’s just $39,974 for the 'commercial-oriented entry model' and $52,975 for the mid-series XLT, and that’s before any EV tax credits. That accessible price point, including the capability you get for it (up to 300 miles of range on one charge, payload capacity up to 2,000 lbs., towing up to 10,000 lbs.), will make all the difference... " '[The Lightning] offers value you’d expect from a Ford, targeting pricing for the masses and lowering total cost of ownership for many,' said Kumar Galhotra, president of Americans and International Markets Group at Ford. "That lower total cost of ownership is a reference to the fact that filling your vehicle up with electricity instead of gas can save drivers a significant amount of money, especially in the long run. That’s another element that both individual truck owners and fleet buyers will find enticing once they actually do the cost-benefit analysis between the Lightning and the traditional F-150, as well as the offerings from other brands... "This is a case of the early bird getting the worm, but not in the way you might expect. While other automakers may beat Ford to the starting line, Ford is set to beat everyone else to market with an electric truck that’s accessible, affordable and enticing to America’s gas-loving truck owners — and there are a heck of a lot of them."

Ford Otosan has a manufacturing capacity of 15,000 heavy vehicles per annum at its Ekesehir plant in Turkey. It has doubled its market share in Turkey over the 12 year period since 2008. Ford Otosan produced 8358 trucks in 2011 for a 22.8 % share of the Turkish HCV market and in 2020 produced 7839 trucks for a 31.7% share of the heavy vehicle market in Turkey. % of Turkish Heavy Commercial Market Share February 2021. 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 2018 2019 2020 Ford Otosan HCV sales Turkey 2978 2061 4668 8358 6001 5998 6772 7842 5193 5187 3415 2370 5309 Ford Otosan International HCV Sales 1006 1008 976 1500 2200 3003 2530 Total Ford Otosan HCV Sales 2978 2061 4668 8358 6001 5998 7778 8850 6169 6687 5615 5373 7839 % HCV Market Share Turkey 14.7 17.3 18.3 22.8 20.0 21.3 21.8 23.3 28.1 27.7 28.5 31.4 31.7 Ford Trucks stated goal is to have a minimum of 5% market share in 80 countries worldwide by 2023, including much of Western Europe The company is developing its own automated transmission and will develop a 2.3m wide version of the F-Max cab to replace the cab on the Cargo model before contemplating production of a right hand drive version. Jiangling Motors Corporation Heavy Duty Vehicles (JMCH) Ford Motor Company is a major shareholder in the company however it may not have a controlling interest in the company. JMCH, although not within the top ten heavy vehicle manufacturers in China is a significant vehicle manufacturer and have invested in the localisation of the Ford trucks JMC produce a Horizon hydrogen fuel cell 4x2 version of the JMC Weilong primemover (Cargo) as well as JMC HV5 (FMax) in tandem drive, Diesel, WeiChai NG (LNG/CNG) powered, Horizon Hydrogen Fuel Cell powered versions. JMCH annual production in 2019 was 96,919 commercial vehicles. The number of heavy duty trucks produced does not appear to be available on subscription free sources however JMCH shows part of an order of 100 JMC Weilong HV5 (FMax) primemovers being delivered to the Fast Growing Logistics Company at a presentation in April 2020. JMCH commercial vehicles produced include JMC light trucks with 1.5 tonne to 4.7 tonne capacity powered by Ford Duratorq 2.4 litre, Isuzu 2.8 and 3.0 litre Euro 5 diesel engines and 5 or 6 speed Getrag manual transmissions. The JMC Super Carrying light duty cab forward truck utilises a Cummins 3.8 litre diesel engine with a 6 or 7 speed manual transmission. Light duty battery electric versions of these trucks are produced with 81 and 107 kWhr batteries for 1.2 to 2.3 tonne payload capacities. Ford announced that the company's automotive business in China will focus on the four core areas of Ford-branded passenger cars, commercial vehicles, Lincoln-branded and electric vehicles on 28 April 2021. It established Ford China passenger vehicle division and Ford China commercial vehicle division including indicating that there would be a transformation of the commercial operational model. On the 7th of May 2021 Jiangling Automobile Company approved the sale of 100% of JMCH for not less than $118.7M USD. JMCH have already spun off the heavy commercial engine production into Taiyuan Jiangling Power Company Limited of which it sold a 60% share to the Yunnei Group in January 2021. Heavy commercial vehicle sales are at a record high in China, in 2020 1.6 million vehicles were sold. Restrictions on foreign owned commercial vehicle companies have been lifted. Hyundai, Scania are building plants. Daimler is in a joint venture with a local company to produce Mercedes-Benz trucks for the China market. China Commercial Vehicle Network have speculated on the internet that Volvo Group may be a purchaser of JMCH assets as Volvo Group trucks are an import only operation in China. If this were to be the case the Otosan licensing agreements would not be required. Volvo Group have a 45% holding in Dongfeng Commercial Vehicles which produces Nissan UD derived trucks for the local market, Volvo having sold its 50% share in the Sinotruck joint venture in 2009. From Big Mack Trucks, 30th of May 2016 Ford Otosan, Ford Motor Company and Ford Global Technologies LLC (Licensors) signed a technology licensing agreement on July 25, 2014, with Jiangling Motors Corporation (JMC) in which Ford Motor Company holds a 32 percent stake. The agreement granted JMC a non-exclusive license relating to Ford Cargo product technology, know-how and technical documentation relating to the design, manufacture and service of the Cargo chassis, cab and related components of Ford branded heavy trucks. JMC agreed to pay Ford-Otosan an entry licensing fee of 8 million Euros, an average 390 Euro licensing fee per unit for each chassis produced, and 39 Euros for each cab produced. The terms of the agreement are 12 years starting from mass production (November 2017) with automatic 3 year extensions unless declared otherwise. FORD OTOMOTİV SANAYİ A.Ş. Associated party transactions 2019 and projected for 2020 Engineering services sales to Jiangling Motors Corporation Ltd. (JMC) is based on “Engineering Services and Technical Assistance Contract for JMCH Stage 6 Ecotorq Project” dated 31 October 2018 and “Engineering Services and Technical Assistance Contract for JMC Branded JH476 Stage 6 Heavy Truck Project” dated 31 October 2018 and 11 November 2019. In addition, license revenue is obtained from the engine that JMC produces and uses in JH476 Heavy Truck based on “Ecotorq Engine Technology Licensing Contract” dated 22 April 2013 and from the chassis that JMC produces based on “Technology Licensing Contract For JMC Branded JH476 Heavy Truck Program” dated 25 July 2014. The company sells heavy commercial vehicle and engine production parts to the People's Republic of China with the “Agreement of Ecotorq Program Product Supply Agreement” and “JH476 Heavy Truck Program Product Supply Agreement" dated 30 March 2017 signed with Jiangling Motors Corporation Ltd (JMC).

We live in the country, not the suburbs. Rural driving usually means driving long distances. In northern Michigan, towns, and gas stations, are widely spaced. A few weeks back, the small town we stayed at in Michigan's Upper Peninsula didn't even have a gas station. Widespread BEV acceptance in rural areas will be many years behind suburbs and cities.

No doubt that the EV F150 will meet some customers needs, but not others. For example, if you tow a travel trailer or large boat, many are saying range will be reduced to 100 miles or so. That will not work in many cases. So in many ways EV pickups are not ready for all jobs and uses. Not as versatile as gas.

Imagine you had a gas pump at your house where you can top off every single day? For the very vast majority of people, you would never need to go to a gas station except in the rarest of instances (it's only on long / vacation trips where you have to fill up more than once a day). Electric is no different. If you are topping up at home every evening with a full battery each morning, the chances of you ever getting in a situation where you even need a public charging station is rare. Think about it. How often are you filling your vehicle up with gas? Once a week? Twice a week? As long as it is not more than once a day, electric vehicles have you beat for refueling convenience. Fueling up while you sleep, it cant be easier. Once people get their minds reprogrammed and realize electric really does not hold you back from your daily routine, it will get much more popular. The Lightning will have a lot to do with that as well. And when a Ranger electric comes up, I'll be first to give it a look!

...and that gets to the constraints of current EV technology. Sure, it is possible to get a 400+ mile range, but that means increasing weight, decreasing payload unless the truck is significantly restructured (as seen with the fact that the extended range version has a lower payload rating, as the weight of the extra batteries needs to be subtracted, and of course the restructuring would itself add more weight), and pumping up the price. Doing this sends you down the Hummer track. But battery technology is rapidly improving and by later in the decade the trade offs will be much reduced. Doesn't fix the overnight charging problem, however. I also live where it's not currently a possibility. But for someone, whether an individual or a company, who can do overnight charging, who is in the market for a new truck, who would use the truck as a local work vehicle, and who has other options for those occasional long road trips? This has some real advantages, despite the trade offs, that make it well worth considering.

EVs aren't for everybody, nor are they fit for every purpose. With a 230-ish mile range and a 2,000lb payload, the Lightning would meet most of my needs but for one thing: I'm currently living in an apartment, so I have no place to charge it. Also, I've looked under the cushions of my couch and checked my back pockets, and I'm coming up about $40K short of having enough scratch to close the deal...

Actually, I did read the entire article, and that isn't all one needs to know. There's this: So despite the supposed brilliance of the competition in contrast to Ford's losses, we learn that the competition were all losing money as well, just not as much. And those losses predated covid, despite the assertion above. Brazil is an economic basket case. Covid is certainly making things worse. Ford was right to bail out, after certainly mucking up its prospects with its lethargic pace of product development and introduction..

PRODUCTION WEEK SCHEDULING - WEEK OF 05/24/2021 REVISED SCHEDULING TOOLBOX - SCHEDULING PLAN This is the tentative scheduling plan for the production period. This is just a guide for scheduling. This information is tentative and may change at any time. THIS INFORMATION APPLIES TO UNSCHEDULED ORDERS ONLY. Blue Oval Forums_Production Week Scheduling_2021-05-24 Revised.pdf

Toyota’s aren’t exactly cutting edge either. But they are low cost to produce. For all of Ford’s focus on cost cutting, they have little to show for it. End result is failure in cost competitive locales. Even in the US, Ford pulled out of the car sector where margins were the tightest.

Exactly. My wife’s family lives in rural South Ga at least 45 miles from any significantly sized city. There would have to be an accessible charger in each city at a minimum for me to even consider driving an EV. Could it be done? Sure but it would be enormously inconvenient.

Ford should improve its communication with its dealers. Ford outlined a 10 step plan for improving the company going forward while presenting quarterly results. Improving communications with dealers should also be a focus for Ford; especially as more competitors enter the truck market. often dealers are left in the dark about their stock and retail orders; this has been an issue well before the current shortages. Consumers may ask for unreasonable/unrealistic measures to take place to address this issue, but feedback from dealers on the poor communication can help improve sales for Ford and by relation the dealerships.

If you have a central air system then you have 240v somewhere in the house.

Corporations are also supposed to identify all risks to their business and put in place mitigating strategies to control as much as possible internal and external threats to the viability and profitability. Not having contingencies for threats to just in time parts sourcing is crazy and indefensible, this is why I believe that Ford is out of balance wit cost savings prioritised over real threats to the business, they bet the farm with no safety net, so now they’re shut down for weeks and even with returned supply, a bout a year to fully recover. Actions have consequences.........

https://www.findthebestcarprice.com/bmw-performance-center/

Now including the new "sinkhole" exhibit....?

Valid point, but for me, range anxiety doesn’t come from driving around town or commuting to the office. It’s about the freedom I have with a gas powered vehicle to take any route I choose and not have to worry about stopping every 200-400 miles for an extended period of time to fuel up. Never mind the fact that battery range is basically unknown when traveling as conditions change (ambient temp, etc). Sure you can work around that by planning the appropriate route, but some folks don’t want to deal with that.

No doubt Ford has captured the PR high ground. And the frosting on the cake was for Biden to drive the Lightning. Talk about free PR. The Lighting intro may go down as one of the best ever.

That's because Ford's organizational inefficiencies in product development, manufacturing, and marketing were so deeply rooted that individual cost cuts here and there couldn't solve the problem. Subsidies that Ford gets from governments, whether in Brazil, USA, or anywhere else it does business, can't solve the problem either. As bzcat mentioned, Ford's inability to compete in the Brazil domestic market were much more a result of Ford's own problems than economics or politics in Brazil.

Very interesting comment. So Ford does have "first mover advantage" with F-150 Lightning. But not based on the date of introduction or date for start of production.

I saw that too. Everybody is doing poorly in Brazil. I'm glad Ford had enough smarts to finally bail.

On another note I was talking to a guy the other day that has a landscaping construction business. He has a 7.3 powered 650, 5-7 yd dump. He said when he bought it the $10k premium for a Power Stroke was a turnoff. He has no trouble with this 7.3 handling 10 ton loads of stone! And he says in terms of economy, costs him no more than a 6.8 powered 550 he has.

PRH- Wow thx for all that info. Just curious do YOU have any feel for any direct involvement the FordOtosan group has with Dearborn and US truck production. I look at the F-Max coverage and I see pictures for example of instrument panel switchgear that looks exactly like what is in US Ford products. Is there anything beyond that. I recognize "One Ford" was Mulally's thing but just curious if there is any joint participation in medium/ heavy truck design production.

The only plant I'm aware of where you can take a tour and schedule to take delivery of your vehicle is the Corvette plant in Bowling Green, KY which is also home to the National Corvette Museum.

JMC ownership diagrams for information

Or not. When the trip computer comes back with the estimated range of under 100 miles, it may come back with a vengeance. The operator will know they have to stop more often and have little room for error. May not be an issue along the coasts, but out in the rural areas, where charging stations are farther apart, I can see some anxiety. Particularly if the wind changes and all of a sudden you have a 30 plus mph head wind. The extra time to charge may become problematic also.

To Ford, a critical path item like a computer chip is just another widget. Completely oblivious to parts suppliers that can cripple its business. Like every other CEO before him, Jim Hackett and Farley failed to act on the problem of poor risk management. A corporate like Ford has to go through pain and suffering before the dimmest light bulb goes off that maybe there’s a problem with the way they do business..... very slow learners.

Next year as in MY23, the global version of NG Ranger arrives first, as in Q4 later this year.

They may do that. Seems like that is where things are headed towards. But you are assuming Koc wants the business... they may not.

yep, embracing EVs fully depends on its application...I cant see EVs being utilized for off the grid camping adventures either. As for blackouts...we have them here in So Cal when it gets hot and everyone turns on their A/C....they should be investing in improving things so that doesn't happen....and I don't think ever increasing populace and mandating Electric cars by 2035 will help the situation in any way form or manner, especially when we deem investing into pet projects such as Bullet Trains to no where more important.... ( don't get me started on how water shortages are being addressed in this state....lol...LOONY TUNES

I agree to an extent. People are used to doing it one way for their entire lives, so you're not going to immediately get people to change/think differently. That said, as I've said before, Americans like to plan for the "what if" scenario - what if I take that 1,000 mile road trip? What if I need to get that big item at the store once a year? - rather than looking at what they need on a daily basis.....I do it too.

This is all you need to know without having to read the entire article. "The truth is, Ford failed to modernize its product lineup at the same speed as its rivals," said Ricardo Bacellar, automotive head at KPMG's consulting arm in Brazil. Other companies also lost money during COVID but everyone pivoted fast enough to have new products in the stores. Ford is the only one still selling the same outdated EcoSport from 7 years ago. 2020 was a bad year that pushed Ford over the edge in Brazil but Ford had a decade of decline in Brazil before that and it coincided with the entrance of Toyota and Hyundai to the market. You can say the economics of the Brazil market changed but this is the same pattern Ford faced in all other markets where Toyota and Hyundai showed up. You can go down the list... Australia, Taiwan, Malaysia, Thailand, India, Middle East and North Africa, Southern and East Africa, Eastern Europe, Brazil... For whatever reason, Ford's international operations are not setup to compete with the two Asian juggernauts. With just one of them, Ford can hang on but when both enter, Ford either packs up and scales way back.

Fun fact... there is already more public charging stations within 2 miles of my house than there are gas station. I agree that widespread public charging won't be necessary for wider EV adoption. It's one of those nice to have options but not necessary. The notion that somehow we need to add a lot of public charging is tied to range anxiety which is fundamentally an issue with lack of direct experience. If you talk to EV owners, you will find that vast majority of them never use public chargers. The other thing that you see being talked about incessantly in any EV topic is the notion that existing range is inadequate so the vehicle (and EV at large) cannot replace ICE vehicles. But why only focus on the edge use case on ICE vehicles and use that to disqualify EV? Why don't edge use case obsessives ever think about all the edge use case for EV that ICE vehicles cannot do? For example, which ICE car can power your house for 4 days like Lightning? OMG, how can anyone buy a car that doesn't do that when you know about once every decade you may have a 2 day blackout?

Not the correct forum.

How can they say 4.5 seconds 0-60 in a FULL-SIZE pickup is not performance-oriented? I swear, some people just want to complain about anything.

First, you can't do math ? 3 x 400,000 x 7,500 = $9 billion, not 3 trillion. $9 billion over a decade is a drop in the bucket to the Federal Govt. We spent multiple times that every year subsidizing the oil industry. Second, there is nothing wrong with UG Govt using tax incentives to encourage a positive outcome. That's good Govt policy. Third, if you are going to act like a simpleton and not think critically about what this little tiny tax break can mean to a whole industry, then you should apply the same standards to every industry. The oil industry is already well established, and yet we pile state and federal subsidies to fracking industry, exempting or limit its mitigation liabilities. If people claim to be supporting the fossil fuel technology, they should be prepared to pay for it.

I agree to a point but many times the dealer is at fault as well. I never hear from my dealer unless I call them for an update, and even then I feel like I'm being a nuisance. I was told I'll contact you the moment your truck gets a vin# but I never heard a peep. Hell I called them with the Vin# and that was 3 weeks after is was assigned. I've learned your dealer can run a Vehicle Visibility Report and get you updated information but the don't unless you ask. Can Ford do more..sure but I'm just saying the dealers don't go out of their way to keep you informed either and then blame Ford when you get frustrated.

Agree 100%, if I was a dealer representing Ford I would be embarrassed over the lack of communication between the dealers and Ford. I believe in Jim Farley's presentation to the stock holders he committed to "treat customers like family". It must be terrible to try to explain to a customer who ordered in 2020 that they have no idea when that customer might see his vehicle when someone in April just received theirs exactly the same build but possibly a different color. Everyone understands the chip issue but the lack of communication and seemingly not having a plan to move forward puts the dealers in an awful position.

Hah- as long as the Transit and Ranger are HEADED to China and not COMING from China. As for Ford selling the Chinese heavy truck business, more of the Ford definition of "commercial vehicles". They should start using the phrase "Light" commercial vehicles in any reference to trucks.

An occasional troublesome vehicle out of millions is plausible, but you would have had more credibility here if you didn't make it into a Toyota commercial. America was not built on the backs of foreign trucks. I think there's millions of Ford trucks out there working every day with several hundred thousand miles on each of them. Ford has nothing to prove to a Toyota fanboy.