PREMiERdrum Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Is the version in the youtube video an unfinished prototype? It's ugly. I fail to see what make one "uglier" than the other... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 I know the background is chopped in, but is the car chopped or is it the real thing? Perhaps I'm in the minority, but I think it looks good, actually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MY93SHO Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 Not if the memories sink your profit. I seem to recall the Panther ninnies telling me that the Panther hasn't been profitable in years.....so why would Ford saddle ANYTHING with a name from one. I've noticed this year that the higher end livery companies here have already started the switch from real Town Cars to Chrysler 300s and a few Navigators. I am assuming that something similiar is taking place in most other major cities' as well. You can crawl back under your rock now. How much did Geico pay you for that commercial? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 Well in any case, this thread has contained a lot of good info on just why the LS was doomed. I never could understand why the car that had such a good launch never went anywhere. So thanks for the education. I guess this whole episode is a good lesson in just how important good direction from the top is to keep an organization focused on objectives that benefit the company as a whole. As for Lincoln? Other than the Lincoln Fusion, and the Lincoln SHO, (I get my alphabet soup mixed up) I see nothing that makes say "wow"- rather I say "ugh". Looks like Sir Trotman left some designs in his will that follow through on the Taurus "catfish" grill for Lincoln- the "Baleen Whale" grill. I still say- I'd much rather be a Cadillac dealer today than a Lincoln dealer. Again, an opinion. And to REALLY piss a few off- I agree with Armada Master. I do believe the 300C will take over the limo market. If I were a fleet owner I would put my money on a rugged RWD platform anyday before I invested in an inventory of CV joints. Time will tell and as a stockholder, I hope I'm wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfan Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 Lincoln is an absolute joke. What is really alarming is that the two cars in the Lincoln lineup that are completely distinctive from thier Ford-brand counterparts- the MKS and the MKT- are absolute failures in the marketplace. I really think the only thing holding up the MKZ is the fantastic lease deals that are being offered. I really feel sorry for the dealers. Ford is asking them to invest a ton of money in them without offering them any viable product for at least two years. Lincoln needs a truly "clean sheet" approach and a new design direction. The new "Town Car" reminds me of when Chrysler stretched its K-Frame in the early 1990s to a 210 inch vehichle and called it an Imperial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 What is really alarming is that the two cars in the Lincoln lineup that are completely distinctive from thier Ford-brand counterparts- the MKS and the MKT- are absolute failures in the marketplace. In comparison to what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 In comparison to what? Luxury sales are up over 20% for over a year and counting, and Lincoln sales are flat to being down outright and still sinking into oblivion. MKS and MKT are leading the charge into oblivion. Lincoln has momentum, but it's going in wrong direction. Lincoln will be much harder to turn around than Ford. From what I've seen, Ford would be better off just pushing Titanium and pay off the rest of the sick Lincoln dealers and be done with brand. Not worth the effort and hits to Ford's treasury. Lincoln is much sicker than Mercury ever was and we know what happened to Mercury. Many on here want GM and Chrysler to die. Lincoln is dying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfan Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 In comparison to what? The MKZ and the MKX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfan Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Luxury sales are up over 20% for over a year and counting, and Lincoln sales are flat to being down outright and still sinking into oblivion. MKS and MKT are leading the charge into oblivion. Lincoln has momentum, but it's going in wrong direction. Lincoln will be much harder to turn around than Ford. From what I've seen, Ford would be better off just pushing Titanium and pay off the rest of the sick Lincoln dealers and be done with brand. Not worth the effort and hits to Ford's treasury. Lincoln is much sicker than Mercury ever was and we know what happened to Mercury. Many on here want GM and Chrysler to die. Lincoln is dying. In time, I think the absense of a good solid luxury brand will cause financial issues for Ford. But I agree that Lincoln is not really adding anything to Ford right now. I think as far as Lincoln/mercury is concerned, Ford was stupid to drop Mercury until they had a real game plan for Lincoln. What Lincoln really needs is a "clean sheet" approach. Start over with a AMERICAN design theme (perhaps using the mid-late 1960s Lincolns as a styling point) and quit trying to remake this brand every few years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 I think as far as Lincoln/mercury is concerned, Ford was stupid to drop Mercury until they had a real game plan for Lincoln. Have you ever consider the fact that maybe getting rid of Mercury was part of the plan for a healthier Lincoln? It doesn't make any sense to for Ford to spread its money around even more by making halfassed Mercuries that artifically limit the prices of Ford products. Not to mention it would force not so healthy LM dealerships to either close or merge with a Ford dealership (which is a good thing, considering how badly a LM dealership treated my father when he got his Sable a few years ago...they closed shortly after that and LM went to Downs Ford, which is far better dealership) As for Ford's plan with Lincoln, just because they don't share everything like GM does (and come out with it 5 years later) doesn't mean there is a plan in place. Just go back to 2000 or so with Ford...they had NO product what-so-ever coming out and where limping along. Things where even worse in 2005, when the Fusion and Five Hundred hit the market place...one was somewhat competative and the other was blind-sided (and dropped in price because of) by the Chrysler 300. Now look at Ford...they have class leading cars in nearly every catagory and are the darlings of the automotive press. I'm sure in 5 years time, Lincoln is going to be where Ford is now...their current products have good bones that can be improved upon and made class leading. I'll also admit that the excution of the plans for Lincoln over the past 10 years haven't been the best either, but look at Ford, it took them 2-3 tries to get the ship righted over there...which is far more important then Lincoln. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SysEng Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Wow. That thing is ugly. :hysterical: Ford really has lost it here In 6 months they'll stop making the real Lincoln ( that would be the current TC ) and they should be out of business a few months after that... We all know that $5Billion in sales means nothing to these clowns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 We all know that $5Billion in sales means nothing to these clowns. Since when does sales equal profit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 (edited) The MKZ and the MKX Those aren't competitors to the models that you listed. Edited March 16, 2011 by suv_guy_19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PREMiERdrum Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Those aren't the competitors to the models that you listed. Exactly.. here's a reality check: (sales #s from Feb, one of MKS worst months) MKS: 568 Cadillac DTS: 1552 (with record incentives) Audi A6: 594 Audi A8: 361 Acura RL: 168 Hyundai Genesis: 2441 (including coupe) Mercedes S Class: 659 Infiniti M: 1178 Porsche Panamera: 442 (just for you, FordBuyer) Lexus GS: 349 Lincoln MKT: 412 Audi Q7: 742 Mercedes R Class: 178 Porsche Cayenne: 936 Yes, there's plenty of room for improvement for both the MKS and MKT. They're not bottom feeders by any stretch, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfan Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Those aren't competitors to the models that you listed. Let me clarify. Where I was coming from had to do with the MKZ and MKX being more or less badge engineered Fords that were hurried to the market. The MKS and MKT were to have been distinctive vehichles and a new direction for the division. However, only the MKZ and MKX are selling in relatively good numbers right now, and the two newbies are sales failures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfan Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Exactly.. here's a reality check: (sales #s from Feb, one of MKS worst months) MKS: 568 Cadillac DTS: 1552 (with record incentives) Audi A6: 594 Audi A8: 361 Acura RL: 168 Hyundai Genesis: 2441 (including coupe) Mercedes S Class: 659 Infiniti M: 1178 Porsche Panamera: 442 (just for you, FordBuyer) Lexus GS: 349 Lincoln MKT: 412 Audi Q7: 742 Mercedes R Class: 178 Porsche Cayenne: 936 Yes, there's plenty of room for improvement for both the MKS and MKT. They're not bottom feeders by any stretch, though. The MKS is not in the same segment as the Mercedes S Class or the A8, and the MKT is not in the same class as a Cayenne. That being said, I think it is a sad state of affairs when a $50,000 Hyundai outsells a similarry priced MKS 4 to 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PREMiERdrum Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Let me clarify. Where I was coming from had to do with the MKZ and MKX being more or less badge engineered Fords that were hurried to the market. The MKS and MKT were to have been distinctive vehichles and a new direction for the division. However, only the MKZ and MKX are selling in relatively good numbers right now, and the two newbies are sales failures. You must consider the segment though... the midsize lux sedan and midsize lux crossover are much higher volume segments than the full size lux sedan and full size lux crossover segments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PREMiERdrum Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 The MKS is not in the same segment as the Mercedes S Class or the A8, and the MKT is not in the same class as a Cayenne. That being said, I think it is a sad state of affairs when a $50,000 Hyundai outsells a similarry priced MKS 4 to 1. Nailing down exact competitors in the Luxury arena is difficult. If you have more direct comparisons you think are fitting, feel free. The info is out there. Don't forget that the Genesis Coupe is folded into Genesis sales. So it's probably only outselling the MKS 3 to 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 You must consider the segment though... the midsize lux sedan and midsize lux crossover are much higher volume segments than the full size lux sedan and full size lux crossover segments. And why are they higher volume segments? Because they COST LESS! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PREMiERdrum Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 And why are they higher volume segments? Because they COST LESS! Was that ever in doubt? :shades: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 ..... I do believe the 300C will take over the limo market. If I were a fleet owner I would put my money on a rugged RWD platform anyday ..... Rugged and 300C are mutually exclusive of each other.....if the transmission isn't grenade-ing itself, the rear end is.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PREMiERdrum Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 if the transmission isn't grenade-ing itself, the rear end is.... Reminds me of this girl I dated in high school... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 I was having my Porsche Boxster serviced today at Porsche/Audi dealerhship ....indeed, for some services Porsche is cheaper than independent shop, and I was blown away by the sales and service dept. that Audi offers. Lincoln would do well to copy the experience. The Porsche/Audi dealerships are very high end and very pampering. Emotional statments cover the walls and service dept. setting high expectations for employees to give their customers the best experience. The Porsche mechanic bent over backwards to satisfy me and make sure I was happy. Even the bathrooms were something you would find in very high end restaurant and unbelievably clean. Showrooms impressive. Set the bar high Lincoln and nothing half ass. No high pressure tactics, but they are there to give you great sales and service experience if you want it. I'm sure Lexus does the same, and Audi/Porsche are right there. In fact, I was very impressed by service manager letting me go on shop floor to discuss the Boxster with mechanic when it was on hoist. He showed and explained everything to me and offered extra service no charge. None of this nonsense about insurance concerns for me to be on shop floor. After a few minutes, I got out of there, but I could stay as long as I needed to. All the mechanics were very friendly and would patiently answer any question you had about the vehicle. I don't know what Porsche/Audi is doing, but whatever it is it's working fine. Great experience. I only hope Lincoln can reach that standard someday. My Ford store is OK, no big complaints, but this experience today has no comparison to any Ford/Lincoln experience I've ever had. Lincoln has something to shoot for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Exactly.. here's a reality check: (sales #s from Feb, one of MKS worst months) MKS: 568 Cadillac DTS: 1552 (with record incentives) Audi A6: 594 Audi A8: 361 Acura RL: 168 Hyundai Genesis: 2441 (including coupe) Mercedes S Class: 659 Infiniti M: 1178 Porsche Panamera: 442 (just for you, FordBuyer) Lexus GS: 349 Lincoln MKT: 412 Audi Q7: 742 Mercedes R Class: 178 Porsche Cayenne: 936 Yes, there's plenty of room for improvement for both the MKS and MKT. They're not bottom feeders by any stretch, though. If the MKS and MKT sold for $130,000 optioned out, and commanded that kind of price, I'm sure low sales numbers of 400-500 would be good. But the MKS and MKT are not $100,000 vehicles and Ford never intended them to be anywhere near that rarified air. So 500 sales/month sucks. What's worse, both are falling in sales every month and year to year comparisons also suck. Back to the drawing board. Considering how long it's taking Ford to refresh the MKS, I would say they did go back to the drawing board. That's good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PREMiERdrum Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 If the MKS and MKT sold for $130,000 optioned out, and commanded that kind of price, I'm sure low sales numbers of 400-500 would be good. But the MKS and MKT are not $100,000 vehicles and Ford never intended them to be anywhere near that rarified air. So 500 sales/month sucks. What's worse, both are falling in sales every month and year to year comparisons also suck. Back to the drawing board. Considering how long it's taking Ford to refresh the MKS, I would say they did go back to the drawing board. That's good. Which do you think cost more to develop? The Panamera or the MKS? MKT? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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