jpd80 Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 Basically they have taken a vehicle that looked to be styled by the same people that styled the F-150 and SuperDuty to a vehicle that appears to be styled by the same people that styled the Focus and Fiesta. The real question should be would people rather buy a little CUV that looks like it has F-Series DNA to a little CUV that looks like it has Focus and Fiesta DNA? In Europe it is a no brainer that they would prefer the small european car look... In the United States? Well we love our trucks so much that the F-Series has been the Number 1 seller in the U.S. for so many years I have lost count. Americans love trucks and although the current Escape isn't much of a truck at all it does look like a little truck and that look is pure American. I'm not sure what will happen, but we will soon find out. I'm sure it will be a good vehicle, but unless something really makes it stand out it looks to be lost in a sea of small crossovers that all look the same. The simple question is, will this change increase or hurt sales? Escape is roaring along at, 20,000 sales last month on an aging model and that says people love the current Escape but will that love transfer to the new model or is Ford counting on conquest sales to outweigh attrition from the change? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 (edited) It is very derivative, but an improvement over the wallflower it replaces. I think the design will hit just the right spot with customers however, it's alluring enough but not peculiar. It looks very much like a rugged SUV but is still progressive. Some of the design elements are overly simple, especially the slot grille, which has the effect of neutering the dimensionality of the hood above it (which they are once again correcting with the infamous Kuga bumps). I like the lower fascia and headlamps as well as the overall sheet metal sculpting, but the greenhouse belt line is too low and and the greenhouse arch is too tall. I've also seen the rear-end uncovered and I'm pretty satisfied with what they did back there, although the eye-brow lamps are silly attempts to draw continuity and distinction among other Fords. In the end it's far from great design, but it'll do in this price category and I would consider it if all the mechanicals and hardware are up to snuff. Consider me excited, I think they got it right and finally Ford has an appealing cheap SUV. As long as they don't botch the launch (which would be a miracle at this point), it'll do well and set them out ahead of the competition they lagged so badly behind. Edited October 29, 2011 by BORG 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 The simple question is, will this change increase or hurt sales? Escape is roaring along at, 20,000 sales last month on an aging model and that says people love the current Escape but will that love transfer to the new model or is Ford counting on conquest sales to outweigh attrition from the change? I see Ford going for the retail end of marketg than being so dependent upon fleet sales as present Escape is. Around here, I see so many fleet Escapes....almost as many as retail. I would suspect it will take Ford at least a year to ramp up the new Escape enough to match present Escape sales and proably longer. Meanwhile, Ford will be satisfied with higher retail sales and ATP's to make up for less sales. Now if Ford really increases sticker prices on new Escape, then maybe it will take a few years to match present Escape sales if ever. The present Escape is seen as good value for the money and gets more of the budget minded crowd and of course tons of fleet sales. It will be interesting to see the pricing on new Escape with new Focus approaching $28,000 fully loaded. I see a high end new Escape closer to $35,000+ with very modest incentives first year or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2b2 Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 EcoSport looks truck like Escape looks car like Edge looks car like Explorer looks truck like Questions?! as Explorer2005 said, EcoSport doesn't count & I can't keep it separate in my head from the B-Max anyway & imho the new Explorer looks more like a Taurus with acromegaly than a truck I miss the identity the current Escape (& even more the Mariner!!) has/had all the sub-Fusionoids are looking too much the same imho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 EcoSport looks truck like Escape looks car like Edge looks car like Explorer looks truck like Questions?! The Explorer looks truck-like? Seriously? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moosetang Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 This doesn't stand out and makes me think station wagon Focus... I've heard no end to whining that Ford doesn't sell a _______ wagon here, now you're saying this is too wagon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 I see Ford going for the retail end of marketg than being so dependent upon fleet sales as present Escape is. Around here, I see so many fleet Escapes....almost as many as retail. I would suspect it will take Ford at least a year to ramp up the new Escape enough to match present Escape sales and proably longer. Meanwhile, Ford will be satisfied with higher retail sales and ATP's to make up for less sales. Now if Ford really increases sticker prices on new Escape, then maybe it will take a few years to match present Escape sales if ever. The present Escape is seen as good value for the money and gets more of the budget minded crowd and of course tons of fleet sales. It will be interesting to see the pricing on new Escape with new Focus approaching $28,000 fully loaded. I see a high end new Escape closer to $35,000+ with very modest incentives first year or so. While that's true, the current Escape is far from being the fleet queen you alude to, recent fleet data was posted showing that retail sales are still strong and take up the bulk of sales. I imagine re configuring an existing Kuga design to become the new Escape saved Ford NA a packet in up front costs so maybe Ford saves itself close to $500 million in development costs, and can put that on the ledger next future sales. If this sounds familiar, remember the ending of CV and using D3 to fill the product gap?... Sure looks like it to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausrutherford Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 Except EcoSport is not in the U.S. so basically Ford has decided that truck styling is out in the U.S. despite the fact that trucks are the best selling vehicles in the U.S. LOL The only problem I have with the One Ford concept is that you must assume that U.S. customers have the same exact tastes and preferences as customers in different parts of the world. Maybe they do... maybe they don't, but I guess as One Ford continues to move forward we shall find out. Im willing to bet the next EcoSport will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 I imagine re configuring an existing Kuga design to become the new Escape saved Ford NA a packet in up front costs so maybe Ford saves itself close to $500 million in development costs, and can put that on Um, IMHO, any saving is imaginary, considering that all the production dies are completely different, completely new, requiring pretty much the same amount of computer and skull-time whether the design is Kuga 2, or something entirely different again. The Kuga 2 is similar, but a whole new vehicle, including floorpan, AFAIK, so that makes it wholly a new creation with CAD. The design software Ford uses doesn't care where you get your "inspiration" from. So, Ford maybe doesn't save itself close to $500 million . . . the savings come from shared power train components, like 2.0 EB and its transmission. Now, for the Lincoln version. You know, the one with an entirely different top hat? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 I just hope one of the eco engines is available "row your own" Manual trans (in US) ? Highly unlikely ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 (edited) I imagine re configuring an existing Kuga design to become the new Escape saved Ford NA a packet in up front costs so maybe Ford saves itself close to $500 million in development costs, and can put that on Um, IMHO, any saving is imaginary, considering that all the production dies are completely different, completely new, requiring pretty much the same amount of computer and skull-time whether the design is Kuga 2, or something entirely different again. The Kuga 2 is similar, but a whole new vehicle, including floorpan, AFAIK, so that makes it wholly a new creation with CAD. The design software Ford uses doesn't care where you get your "inspiration" from. From what what I have heard the current and next Kuga (and therefore the Escape) are all built off of the C1 (Focus and C-Max) platform So, Ford maybe doesn't save itself close to $500 million . . . the savings come from shared power train components, like 2.0 EB and its transmission. The dual clutch trans that is currently available on the EU Kuga is not the same as the one used on the US Fiesta and Focus. NONE of the engines currently offered on the EU Kuga (2.5L I5 petrol, 2.0L turbo diesel) will be available in the US. Now, for the Lincoln version. You know, the one with an entirely different top hat? I had always hoped that the next Escape would keep its SUV styling and the Kuga (CUV) would go to Mercury/Lincoln. What I really want to know is the difference in head/hip/leg room, front and rear, storage volume, rear lift over height and rear opening height and width. Edited October 29, 2011 by theoldwizard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fou_bleu Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 I love it! Can't wait to see the Titanium version (with and without the roof rails too...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2005Explorer Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 It looks very much like a rugged SUV but is still progressive. This looks rugged? I guess if you think the new Focus looks rugged maybe, but to me it looks like a Focus had sex with a RAV4 and out popped the new Kuga. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 (edited) This looks rugged? I guess if you think the new Focus looks rugged maybe, but to me it looks like a Focus had sex with a RAV4 and out popped the new Kuga. Absolutely! It has the short overhangs, beefy sheet metal, large swaths of matte splashguards lining not just the skirts but around the wheel fenders (unlike the current Escape). Just because the Escape looks boxy and simple doesn't mean it's more rugged...this vehicle has far more details that tell me they actually made it rugged. Don't get me wrong, I think the Escape is good design...one of Ford's most successful designs in recent years...but it's just not a refined product, it's cheap and outdated. Edited October 29, 2011 by BORG 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2005Explorer Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 (edited) Absolutely! It has the short overhangs, beefy sheet metal, large swaths of matte splashguards lining not just the skirts but around the wheel fenders (unlike the current Escape). Just because the Escape looks boxy doesn't mean it looks more rugged...this vehicle has far more details that tell me they actually made it rugged. I kindly disagree that the vehicle looks real beefy and rugged. A Jeep Liberty looks rugged, this doesn't. Of course I understand that they will be purchased by very different buyers, but this vehicle has a very feminine curvy style compared to a more traditional SUV. I would say that Americans might prefer more feminine vehicles in this day and age, but then I look at F-Series sales and something tells me there is still a market for SUVs that still looks like trucks. I guess we won't know what people really want until we can watch how this one sells compared to the current one. Your right there is nothing refined or sophisticated about the current Escape. It is what it is. Just a nice handsome little trucky CUV with a lot of value for the money. With that said I can only hope it will launch with a MyFordTouch that actually works perfect and fast 100% of the time without issue and that the launch build quality will not mirror the current Focus. I'm still waiting to see what happens with the transmissions. We have been told it will NOT have the PowerShift and will come with a conventional automatic, but I have not heard anything certain yet. Edited October 29, 2011 by 2005Explorer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PREMiERdrum Posted October 29, 2011 Author Share Posted October 29, 2011 A Jeep Liberty looks rugged dated Fixed that for you... Sorry man, couldn't resist. :shades: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 I kindly disagree that the vehicle looks real beefy and rugged. A Jeep Liberty looks rugged, this doesn't. Of course I understand that they will be purchased by very different buyers, but this vehicle has a very feminine curvy style compared to a more traditional SUV. I would say that Americans might prefer more feminine vehicles in this day and age, but then I look at F-Series sales and something tells me there is still a market for SUVs that still looks like trucks. The Escape was not fully committed to any spectrum of design, rugged or sporting. You put it next to any of the competition, and it just sits there undecided, it doesn't standout. It's the perfect middle-ground vehicle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2005Explorer Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 Fixed that for you... Sorry man, couldn't resist. :shades: We were talking about the new Kuga looking rugged. The Liberty dated or not looks rugged compared to this new car. Besides I believe that the basic two box SUV design is timeless and has been since the '63 Wagoneer first appeared. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 I kindly disagree that the vehicle looks real beefy and rugged. A Jeep Liberty looks rugged, this doesn't. Of course I understand that they will be purchased by very different buyers, but this vehicle has a very feminine curvy style compared to a more traditional SUV. I would say that Americans might prefer more feminine vehicles in this day and age, but then I look at F-Series sales and something tells me there is still a market for SUVs that still looks like trucks. With that said I can only hope it will launch with a MyFordTouch that actually works perfect and fast 100% of the time without issue and that the launch build quality will not mirror the current Focus. I'm still waiting to see what happens with the transmissions. We have been told it will NOT have the PowerShift and will come with a conventional automatic, but I have not heard anything certain yet. With the present Escape arguably the second most important vehicle in Ford's lineup, all we can do is keep our fingers crossed that this new Escape sells as well as the present one. I'm sure Ford is holding their breath and hoping they got it right. Ford seemed to pull it off with the new Explorer, but the old Explorer wasn't much of a seller as its run ended. This new Escape is to be such an important, crititcal launch for Ford. And it doesn't get any easier for Ford as later in year they have to pull off a second critical launch in the new Fusion. 2012 is proving to be a pivotal year for Ford, even more than this year with UAW negotiations finally over and out of way. After F-Series, Escape and Fusion are their two best sellers. Ford needs to hit home runs with these two as in selling 40,000/month for the two with good quality once production and advertising is fully ramped up. This time next year we will know a lot more about how it turned out. With Ford living and learning much more about DCT and MFT this year with all the user feedback, let's hope these two important features are running smoothly on new Fusion and Escape in 2012. The new Focus is such a great design, I don't see the new Escape looking like tall Focus a problem at all unless the inside is significantly more pinched then present Escape. Now that could be a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT-Keith Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 The rims and camo don't do it justice. Put some 18's on it and give it a color that pops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 (edited) Um, IMHO, any saving is imaginary, considering that all the production dies are completely different, completely new, requiring pretty much the same amount of computer and skull-time whether the design is Kuga 2, or something entirely different again. The Kuga 2 is similar, but a whole new vehicle, including floorpan, AFAIK, so that makes it wholly a new creation with CAD. The design software Ford uses doesn't care where you get your "inspiration" from. Kuga II and Escape will be the same top hat just like Fusion and Mondeo...you can take that to the bank. So, Ford maybe doesn't save itself close to $500 million . . . the savings come from shared power train components, like 2.0 EB and its transmission. You know me, I'm usually a glass three quarters full guy with Ford product changes, this one I'm just a bit wary of...... Escape market is mature and savvy to what they like, I just hope Ford has picked the change perfectly. Just a bit anxious when the old is doing so well ans this is such a huge change in styling but maybe that's what's needed to stay up with the competition... Now, for the Lincoln version. You know, the one with an entirely different top hat? Something Ford NA does very well is Utilities and Trucks MKE, MKX, Aviator, and refreshed Navigator - four key products for Lincoln MKZ is great and will power on, not sure about the others... Edited October 29, 2011 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 With the present Escape arguably the second most important vehicle in Ford's lineup, all we can do is keep our fingers crossed that this new Escape sells as well as the present one. I'm sure Ford is holding their breath and hoping they got it right. Ford seemed to pull it off with the new Explorer, but the old Explorer wasn't much of a seller as its run ended. This new Escape is to be such an important, crititcal launch for Ford. And it doesn't get any easier for Ford as later in year they have to pull off a second critical launch in the new Fusion. 2012 is proving to be a pivotal year for Ford, even more than this year with UAW negotiations finally over and out of way. After F-Series, Escape and Fusion are their two best sellers. Ford needs to hit home runs with these two as in selling 40,000/month for the two with good quality once production and advertising is fully ramped up. This time next year we will know a lot more about how it turned out. With Ford living and learning much more about DCT and MFT this year with all the user feedback, let's hope these two important features are running smoothly on new Fusion and Escape in 2012. The new Focus is such a great design, I don't see the new Escape looking like tall Focus a problem at all unless the inside is significantly more pinched then present Escape. Now that could be a problem. The Escape is a critical product in terms of marketshare, but it may have always posed a problem for Ford in terms of worldwide profitability since there are so many versions of the vehicle that are now orphaned. This solution probably solves allot of problems for them and means that this one product now sees huge global volume no matter what happens in the US market. There are still many unknowns, this is a very price sensitive market so the new Escape's success has absolutely nothing to do with it's design and more to do with very practical matters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 you prefer the current dinosaur??????? To this thing? Absolutely. Look, no one is saying the Escape doesn't need an update, but this thing is literally throwing the baby out with the bathwater. And if this Kuga sells as well as the Expoorer as you hope it will be selling at half it's current volume. If my Escape were to die today I'd buy a 2012 in a heartbeat. I wouldn't accept a 2013 if it were free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 If my Escape were to die today I'd buy a 2012 in a heartbeat. I wouldn't accept a 2013 if it were free. This is an example of my concern, how widespread is this opinion in Escape buyers, just a few or lots? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTwannabe Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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