'13 MKZ Review by Edmunds

[silvrsvt]

It's still TTAC.

 

By the way, are they still writing their Ford Death Watch series? Or did they give that up when it didn't pan out.

 

And TTAC talking about ethical gray areas!

 

Just goes to show you how blogs, magazine artices etc are self serving....

[Stentgraft95]

 

 

 

I really hate the seating position on my parents 2008 Sable...I feel like I'm driving in a highchair and I'm up too high in the drivers seat.

 

I test drove that Sable too when that car came out and I totally hated that upright driving position. I like the way the seats are in my LS and my GT500 where the seats are closer to the floorboard.

[jpd80]

It's still TTAC.

 

By the way, are they still writing their Ford Death Watch series? Or did they give that up when it didn't pan out.

 

And TTAC talking about ethical gray areas!

Normally you'd expect that Edmunds review to be written by the likes of TTAC,

it's as though it has become fashionable to kick Lincoln in the nuts everytime something is released or updated.

What ever happened to just getting into the car and just driving it for the pleasure, are our auto reporters now

that jaded that every Lincoln review has to be a commentary on the supposed health of the brand?

 

Contrary to popular misconception, these reviewers are not spokespeople for a vast number of like minded buyers and what

they do is encourage a very critical opinion by their readers, most of which I doubt would ever consider a Lincoln anyway

or at least not the ones currently on offer...

 

In short, Edmunds review of the MKZ says more about them than it does about the car....

Edited December 18, 2012 by jpd80

[grbeck]

It's still TTAC.

 

By the way, are they still writing their Ford Death Watch series? Or did they give that up when it didn't pan out.

 

And TTAC talking about ethical gray areas!

 

The Death Watch series ended with the bankruptcy of GM and Chrysler, along with Robert Farago leaving for another job.

[ZanatWork]

It's still TTAC.

 

By the way, are they still writing their Ford Death Watch series? Or did they give that up when it didn't pan out.

 

And TTAC talking about ethical gray areas!

 

I thought TTAC was better after their infamous jerk was gone a few years ago.

[jpd80]

The Death Watch series ended with the bankruptcy of GM and Chrysler, along with Robert Farago leaving for another job.

I take that as proof that unsupported death mongering stories have no real penetration into the actual buyer community

just like this story has no real traction with potential Lincoln buyers, if anything the story migh bring people into Lincoln showrooms

to see for themselves what the MKZ is actually like..

 

I thought TTAC was better after their infamous jerk was gone a few years ago.

People take more notice of reviews that make sense, point out perceived shortcomings without high handed contempt.

I have a feeling that the near $50K price tag for the MKZ is at bottom of this - I think that also colored their opinion...

TTAC mentioned that Lincoln spokesman advises the super tires are about 85% confirmed for California so I can't

really see why Edmunds have their panties in a bunch...there are critics of the MKZ but a lot of people will like it too.

Edited December 18, 2012 by jpd80

[RichardJensen]

it's as though it has become fashionable to kick Lincoln in the nuts everytime something is released or updated.

 

Dingdingdingding

 

Remember when seemingly every article about Ford had some negative description in front of it, such as: "financially distressed Ford Motor Company today..." or "another setback for beleaguered Ford Motor", "the money-losing Detroit Automaker".

 

 

TTAC's valid point is that Edmunds is 'discharging their weapon in a safe direction'. They've got cover to trash Lincoln, because everyone else is trashing Lincoln.

 

This has a lot to do with Lincoln doing pretty much the exact opposite of what journos want it to do.

 

But consider:

 

Journalists do not buy and do not own cars. Improving the buying, ownership, and service experiences of a brand are going to be utterly lost on them, but how important are they to actual customers?

 

Look at the owner loyalty that Saturn inspired by careful attention to those details, despite purveying nothing but plastic panels around unreliable GM internals.

[RichardJensen]

I thought TTAC was better after their infamous jerk was gone a few years ago.

Better, but still TTAC.

[jpd80]

Points taken Richard, Lincoln is obviously wrong because they are not copying Cadillac and spending huge sums in the pursuit of BMW..

Considering how much the ATS has been hyped, the actual sales don't seem to be reflecting the huge inrush of anticipated buyers.

And this is what's at core here, the near $50K price tag - how dare Lincoln put out a gussied up Ford in front of ATS and CTS...LOL

 

The price will be judged by the buyers - in spite of what reviewers think.

Edited December 18, 2012 by jpd80

[ZanatWork]

Lincoln is also tainted, if we're honest, by having dwindling returns on many years of overly-conservative strategies and genuinely being the "Fords in expensive lipstick".

 

Yeah, I admit that line stuck with me, John Phillips nailed what I'd been clumsier at saying.

 

The good news is that the Fords getting reworked for Lincoln are solid vehicles in their own rights...but the bad news is that this approach makes the Edge a genuine MKX competitor, the Taurus an MKS competitor, and so on. Lincolns can't separate themselves as vehicles, but instead have to do so with features and options.

 

If the scribes are to be assumed to be anti-Lincoln in defense of the MKZ...a very fair question is why they became anti-Lincoln.

[FordBuyer]

If somehow reviewers are comparing a new MKZ with best of BMW/Audi/MB, then they are being overly harsh and not relevant to the targeted Lincoln buyer. If they are comparing it to the Lexus ES350 or Acura sedans, then that is cause for concern. I think the MKZ has the looks to sell well, and I'm sure the interior is well appointed enough for most. I could be wrong, but I figure short term over next few years Ford is projecting Lincoln sales to increase to 150,000 or so/year. That is probably doable with a "good enough" MKZ, MKS, and whatever else Lincoln is doing. Now to get to 200,000/year and up, I believe Ford will have to spend more money and differentiate Lincoln more. That remains to be be seen. Maybe Ford is happy with making Lincoln "good enough." I guess that wouldn't be bad when you consider how much money GM has spent on Cadillac in last 6-7 years or so, and all they have done is about 150,000 vehicles/year. Lincoln can probably do that with far less invested.

[akirby]

If somehow reviewers are comparing a new MKZ with best of BMW/Audi/MB, then they are being overly harsh and not relevant to the targeted Lincoln buyer. If they are comparing it to the Lexus ES350 or Acura sedans, then that is cause for concern. I think the MKZ has the looks to sell well, and I'm sure the interior is well appointed enough for most. I could be wrong, but I figure short term over next few years Ford is projecting Lincoln sales to increase to 150,000 or so/year. That is probably doable with a "good enough" MKZ, MKS, and whatever else Lincoln is doing. Now to get to 200,000/year and up, I believe Ford will have to spend more money and differentiate Lincoln more. That remains to be be seen. Maybe Ford is happy with making Lincoln "good enough." I guess that wouldn't be bad when you consider how much money GM has spent on Cadillac in last 6-7 years or so, and all they have done is about 150,000 vehicles/year. Lincoln can probably do that with far less invested.

 

Who are you and what did you do with the real FordBuyer?

[RichardJensen]

a very fair question is why they became anti-Lincoln.

http://deadspin.com/5962432/here-are-the-best-moments-from-ptis-bizarre-hours+long-secret-behind+the+scenes-audio-file

 

 

First, some writers are probably picking the 'popular opinion'

 

Second, as mentioned above, Ford's goals with Lincoln (improved ownership experience, buying experience, service experience) are utterly invisible to these writers. An MKZ shows up in their driveway, they drive it for a while and then it disappears. They write about what they experience, not what they don't.

[RichardJensen]

I figure short term over next few years Ford is projecting Lincoln sales to increase to 150,000 or so/year.

If you invest billions into Lincoln all at once, it becomes very difficult for the brand to pay its way.

 

Consider that if Ford were to double its investment in Lincoln without doubling the brand's profit, it would substantially reduce the ROI.

 

Because this is a business, you have to look at investing in Lincoln the same was as investing in, say, a corporate bond.

 

If Ford invests $1B in Lincoln this year, and that $1B returns, say, $60M in additional profit next year, and thereafter, you're looking at 6% ROI. If Ford invests $2B in Lincoln this year, and that $2B returns $80M in additional profit next year, that's only 4% ROI.

 

Now of course, those numbers are fictional, but the ROI from Lincoln investments has to be high enough to justify ongoing investment. You can't just throw money at the brand and hope.

[akirby]

You can't just throw money at the brand and hope.

 

Said nobody at GM. Ever.

[FordBuyer]

Said nobody at GM. Ever.

 

To be fair, Cadillac was/is targeting BMW, and Lincoln is targeting Lexus. For awhile there especially with IS models, Lexus was targeting BMW, and failed. Just read an ATS V6 review in Road and Track, and 321hp ATS is capable of 0-60 in 5.4 seconds and 0-100 in 13 seconds. That is very impressive, and R&T test driver said he had ball driving the ATS at speed. They like the V6 in ATS better than turbo I4, even though it only comes with auto. The MKZ is a boulevard cruiser, the ATS a competent BMW fighter. But if Lincoln is happy to be more luxo Lexus, then hey, that is their right and no set formula to be relevant in luxury market. I prefer luxo vehicles like BMW, Audi, and ATS model, but others don't. Now whether Lincoln will be successful with this approach remains to be seen, but I sure hope so and if Lincoln can sell 150,000 vehicles/year once full lineup is fleshed out, then great for them and profits. I agree it beats Cadillac spending billions more and coming out with almost identical sales numbers even I prefer a CTS/ATS over MKZ/MKS.

[timmm55]

I said at TTAC

 

I like the Fusion a LOT. I like the MKZ a lot too. I would like a Fusion 1.6 EB with a manual transmission at $26K or so.

I'd like a MKZ hybrid (same starting price as the standard ICE)at $36K it's a really good deal. At $42K with the retractable roof, Navigation and a bunch of of other goodies it's hard to beat in it's class.....even at 40 MPGs.

 

The story that was missed, and clearly hinted at by Lincoln, is what will a performance Nano V6 EB MKZ be like. Some journalist! With a tire change it'll out handle an M series. Add some serious power and a performance 4 wheel drive system......Ford does Rally cars after all......it could be amazing.

[timmm55]

The MKZ is a boulevard cruiser....... But if Lincoln is happy to be more luxo Lexus, then hey, that is their right and no set formula to be relevant in luxury market.

 

Maybe you missed the part about outhandling a M series?

[akirby]

To be fair, Cadillac was/is targeting BMW, and Lincoln is targeting Lexus. For awhile there especially with IS models, Lexus was targeting BMW, and failed. Just read an ATS V6 review in Road and Track, and 321hp ATS is capable of 0-60 in 5.4 seconds and 0-100 in 13 seconds. That is very impressive, and R&T test driver said he had ball driving the ATS at speed. They like the V6 in ATS better than turbo I4, even though it only comes with auto. The MKZ is a boulevard cruiser, the ATS a competent BMW fighter. But if Lincoln is happy to be more luxo Lexus, then hey, that is their right and no set formula to be relevant in luxury market. I prefer luxo vehicles like BMW, Audi, and ATS model, but others don't. Now whether Lincoln will be successful with this approach remains to be seen, but I sure hope so and if Lincoln can sell 150,000 vehicles/year once full lineup is fleshed out, then great for them and profits. I agree it beats Cadillac spending billions more and coming out with almost identical sales numbers even I prefer a CTS/ATS over MKZ/MKS.

 

The question is how many BMW drivers would switch to a Cadillac? Answer - virtually none. How many Lexus ES buyers would switch to the MKZ? At least a few if they can get the dealership experience upgraded. It's all about ROI at this point.

[BORG]

If you invest billions into Lincoln all at once, it becomes very difficult for the brand to pay its way.

 

Consider that if Ford were to double its investment in Lincoln without doubling the brand's profit, it would substantially reduce the ROI.

 

Because this is a business, you have to look at investing in Lincoln the same was as investing in, say, a corporate bond.

 

If Ford invests $1B in Lincoln this year, and that $1B returns, say, $60M in additional profit next year, and thereafter, you're looking at 6% ROI. If Ford invests $2B in Lincoln this year, and that $2B returns $80M in additional profit next year, that's only 4% ROI.

 

Now of course, those numbers are fictional, but the ROI from Lincoln investments has to be high enough to justify ongoing investment. You can't just throw money at the brand and hope.

 

Ford could also loose Lincoln and that investment if they don't risk enough to develop Lincoln. I'm assuming Ford and Lincoln have a fiscal model based on comps (possibly Lexus) so we'll see. The MKZ, regardless of what critics think, is hardly a wallflower to be ignored...and they managed to do that with very little money. This isn't the next Oldsmobile Aurora, the last expensive and overhyped gasp of a dying brand. It won't make or break Lincoln because there is more to come.

Edited December 18, 2012 by BORG

[RichardJensen]

Ford could also loose Lincoln and that investment if they don't risk enough to develop Lincoln.

Exactly. You need credible market research to determine the cost of competing as well as estimates of future revenue, then you model, then you decide whether to run with it.

 

I've got a fair amount of confidence in Ford's ability to execute this analysis successfully. They've had issues with execution lately, not predicting the direction and preferences of the market.

[Deanh]

Lincoln is also tainted, if we're honest, by having dwindling returns on many years of overly-conservative strategies and genuinely being the "Fords in expensive lipstick".

 

Yeah, I admit that line stuck with me, John Phillips nailed what I'd been clumsier at saying.

 

The good news is that the Fords getting reworked for Lincoln are solid vehicles in their own rights...but the bad news is that this approach makes the Edge a genuine MKX competitor, the Taurus an MKS competitor, and so on. Lincolns can't separate themselves as vehicles, but instead have to do so with features and options.

 

If the scribes are to be assumed to be anti-Lincoln in defense of the MKZ...a very fair question is why they became anti-Lincoln.

see, and I kinda take umbrage to that initial statement, if Lincolns are Fords in expensive lipstick ,a what exactly is Cadillac, Audi....even Porsche ( Cayenne ) to an extent....NOTHING wrong, in fact theres a lot RIGHT with tweeking a familiar undercarriage, and personally I think the buyers of the MKZ will buy the car based on its "lipstick", and probably in pretty good numbers. I think lost in the equation here is up until now every Lincoln could/ should have been veiwed as a stop gap....this Z pushes the envelope quite a bit more...and from that I would assume it will gradyually ramp up...I have high hopes for Lincoln, and aside from a couple of trivialities, I think the Z is a HUGE step forward.....next up?.....

[Anthony]

I really don't see how people are still making the "gussied up Ford" comments anymore. Most mainstream luxury models are "gussied up X" and the ones that are not are generally in another price class.

 

Sharing the bones with a high volume vehicle isn't a downside. It's a way to get far more for far less.

[ZanatWork]

see, and I kinda take umbrage to that initial statement, if Lincolns are Fords in expensive lipstick ,a what exactly is Cadillac, Audi....even Porsche ( Cayenne ) to an extent....NOTHING wrong, in fact theres a lot RIGHT with tweeking a familiar undercarriage, and personally I think the buyers of the MKZ will buy the car based on its "lipstick", and probably in pretty good numbers. I think lost in the equation here is up until now every Lincoln could/ should have been veiwed as a stop gap....this Z pushes the envelope quite a bit more...and from that I would assume it will gradyually ramp up...I have high hopes for Lincoln, and aside from a couple of trivialities, I think the Z is a HUGE step forward.....next up?.....

 

I don't use Caddy as much of an example, except in that I wish I could get a RWD, manual trans equipped sports wagon at my Lincoln dealer. Audi isn't interesting to me below the A6 level because I know about the VW pairing (and their love affair with that 2.0t motor), and Porsche's Cayenne is sharing a chassis with a fairly upmarket SUV anyway.

 

The question is whether people are satisfied with Lincoln's status as high-line Fords. With Lincoln division sales for the year not much above the Mustang or the Fiesta by themselves for the year (as of the last report), I fail to see that continuance of that strategy is getting the needed response.

[Edstock]

A new top hat is a lot of "rework". As far as most buyers are concerned, that makes it a different car.

 

If extra-sticky tires make it handle like that, the standard tires and the active suspension will make a lot of people smile. Give it a little time.