Hugh Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 http://www.autonews.com/article/20141208/OEM06/312089966/ford-considers-cvts-as-way-to-improve-fuel-economy I saw this on FIN and I'm surprised no one has discussed this yet. To start off, my limited experience with CVT in the Five Hundred was not that great. OTOH, my limited experience with the CVT in the 1st gen Fusion Hybrid was pretty good. I am not crazy about CVTS but I liked my Fiesta PowerShift and feel it needs more work. In other words, it appears to be a 'Looking at options' article like exploring Hybrids and Diesels in the F1fiddy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papilgee4evaeva Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Please, no.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 I could see Ford doing some experimentation here: Buying off-the-shelf CVTs and installing them in Fiestas and getting customer feedback. But it sort of looks like it has DCT written all over it---unconventional transmission matched to entry-level powertrain doesn't sound like a winning combo. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PREMiERdrum Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Um, pass. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 ... my limited experience with CVT in the Five Hundred was not that great. OTOH, my limited experience with the CVT in the 1st gen Fusion Hybrid was pretty good.2 very different animals that really can not be compared ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 For a 1.0L non-turbo engine, you could use a rubber belt, just like a snowmobile ! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 ... I liked my Fiesta PowerShift and feel it needs more work. But it sort of looks like it has DCT written all over it---unconventional transmission matched to entry-level powertrain doesn't sound like a winning combo. The PowerShift DCT uses dry clutches, possibly the only production DCT to do so. Managing durability versus drive "quality" is a huge challenge. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 VW has a dry clutch version as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 (edited) CVTs, though popular in Europe and Asia, only recently gained much traction in North America... Edited December 11, 2014 by twintornados Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 (edited) VW has a dry clutch version as well. Ford also has a wet clutch version of the Powershift DCT. It's used in other vehicles in Europe just not NA. Edited December 11, 2014 by akirby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 CVT's in a Hybrid= YES In anything else....HELL NO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 and our service drive right now is inundated with replacing the clutch packs on Auto Fiestas....two will be mine...ones got a mind of its own apparently. ( I don't drive them, the ST is mine, and its having its flywheel replaced right now, say hello to the Chevy Spark in my driveway...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lfeg Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 In the effort to keep up with CAFE, CVTs have to be on the table. Especially for midsize and smaller vehicles. It is easier to keep an engine at its economy and emissions sweet spots with a CVT. And packaging gets to be a problem when you start getting above 8 speeds in a conventional automatic or DCT - especially for smaller vehicles. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
630land Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 You can take away my geared transmission, "from my cold dead hands" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papilgee4evaeva Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 (edited) In the effort to keep up with CAFE, CVTs have to be on the table. Especially for midsize and smaller vehicles. It is easier to keep an engine at its economy and emissions sweet spots with a CVT. And packaging gets to be a problem when you start getting above 8 speeds in a conventional automatic or DCT - especially for smaller vehicles. Kind of a spurious claim. No one offers a modern automatic alongside a CVT with an otherwise identical powertrain. Honda's I4 is CVT only, and their V6 is 6AT only.* Nissan hasn't offered a geared automatic in about 7 years in their car lines. Also, Audi is actually doing away with CVTs in their longitudinal FWD models. Evidently they have something figured out that satisfies CAFE regulations. * - Disregarding manuals, of course. Edited December 11, 2014 by papilgee4evaeva Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 In the effort to keep up with CAFE, CVTs have to be on the table. Especially for midsize and smaller vehicles. It is easier to keep an engine at its economy and emissions sweet spots with a CVT. And packaging gets to be a problem when you start getting above 8 speeds in a conventional automatic or DCT - especially for smaller vehicles. I think the economy gains from an 8 speed to a CVT will be trivial, even by CAFE standards. Ford is looking at CVTs in the same way that they're always looking at stuff. They're a business. Any company that makes business decisions based on personal prejudices (like, say, "no hydraulic brakes") is going to end up in a world of hurt. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 and our service drive right now is inundated with replacing the clutch packs on Auto Fiestas....two will be mine...ones got a mind of its own apparently. ( I don't drive them, the ST is mine, and its having its flywheel replaced right now, say hello to the Chevy Spark in my driveway...) Wow, I didn't realize there was such an epidemic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 funnily enough though, even with their idiosyncrasies, Ive yet to hear of anyone being stranded with a complete trans failure. So basically my stepdaughter gets a brand new trans at 50000 miles.....personally I think Fords just doing a blanket fix it with new clutch packs due to the squeaky wheel effect...youll probably never hear if it completely remedies the complaints.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 CVT may make sense in certain models but I don't think Ford is about the make an across the board commitment to this technology. Ford/GM has the 9 speed FWD and 10 speed RWD transmission coming next year so that takes care of most of the needs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lfeg Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Ford has been looking at CVTs for years, I have technical articles from back in the mid 70s when they were testing them on the LTDs of that era. CVTs, like any other technology today, are advancing with new discoveries in materials and lubrication. To keep them off the table just because they are not a "geared transmission" is as short sighted as Henry's dislike of hydraulic brakes. They are just another "tool in the toolbox" that you have in there just in case. May make sense in certain classes of vehicles but not in others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 (edited) Anyone at Ford "contemplating" a CVT either has a very short memory or never had anything to do with the development, production, or post-production support of the last one. In total, Ford lost BILLIONS on that venture ! Edited December 12, 2014 by theoldwizard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 ... and our service drive right now is inundated with replacing the clutch packs on Auto Fiestas.... Interesting ! Durability was an issue throughout all of the development of the PowerShift. I was very surprised when it was installed in the Focus. During development it was aimed at B class vehicles with engines below 1.6L. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolt in blue Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 A CVT definitely drives different than a conventional auto. Right now, that's a liability - many of the manufacturers have added simulated gears to their CVTs to make them drive more like people expect. However, it seems that a CVT shines at its best when it doesn't have to pretend to be a conventional automatic. If the buying public adapts to CVTs, I think we'll see more of them. If manufacturers keep having to disguise them as something else, I think we'll see other technologies instead. When I was shopping for my Escape, I went to the local Subaru dealer since what I really wanted was a wagon. The sales guy I was working with there told me that he had customers who had bought two or three manual cars from him switching to the CVT because they liked it better after driving one. I've only driven a Subaru with a CVT a little (two test drives and a few days with one as a rental), but it didn't feel like they were trying to disguise it as an automatic. It didn't drive exactly like what I was used to, but I could have adjusted to it. It didn't hurt that I was getting 35 mpg doing 75-80 on the highway in a midsize wagon either - I could get used to that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnostic Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 I had a Freestyle with the CVT. I had no problems with it and the lack of shifting did not bother me. It was a good car and I would have no problem getting another with a CVT. It was kind fun to watch the relationship between rpm and mph too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 CVT may make sense in certain models but I don't think Ford is about the make an across the board commitment to this technology. Ford/GM has the 9 speed FWD and 10 speed RWD transmission coming next year so that takes care of most of the needs. The 9 speed is too big, too heavy and too expensive to be used in b and c cars. The segment from <180ft/lbs is where a new transmission is needed and exactly where the packaging, weight and cost issues are for the 9 speed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.