J-150 Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Hefty Discounts on VWs.. Seems dealers are hurting quite a bit. I sure as hell wouldn't want to be one right now. http://finance.yahoo.com/news/vw-dealers-offer-hefty-discounts-diesel-crisis-keeps-210316443--finance.html Wow. They've become the German version of Chrysler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonj80 Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 http://news.yahoo.com/u-expands-investigation-volkswagen-evading-emissions-tests-181718532--sector.htmlToday is the day the regular non-automotive people realize an Audi or Porsche is really a VW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 Some Audis? Sure. Porsches? Not even close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonj80 Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 Some Audis? Sure. Porsches? Not even close. Cayenne is a VW Touareg even more so than a Q5 is a Macan. But what I was getting at was most people didn't know that Porsche was a VW Company, most people think they are an independent company. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 I was thinking 911, boxster and cayman but you have a point on the utilities. And you're right about the average person not knowing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 The pit of insanity just gets deeper and deeper, the claim of "clean diesel" is now seen as a con, a trick and a lie. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
92merc Posted November 3, 2015 Author Share Posted November 3, 2015 And now CO2 and MPG figures were set too low... http://money.cnn.com/2015/11/03/news/volkswagen-scandal-carbon-dioxide-fuel-consumption/index.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonj80 Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 And now CO2 and MPG figures were set too low... http://money.cnn.com/2015/11/03/news/volkswagen-scandal-carbon-dioxide-fuel-consumption/index.html http://www.engadget.com/2015/11/03/volkswagen-gasoline-emissions-lied/Now the Gas models are in this could even get worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 (edited) And now CO2 and MPG figures were set too low... http://money.cnn.com/2015/11/03/news/volkswagen-scandal-carbon-dioxide-fuel-consumption/index.html Seems like this includes the 3.0L TDI. Which would make the comments offered by VAG execs about that engine this AM look a little funny. Edited November 4, 2015 by RichardJensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 Seems like this includes the 3.0L TDI. Which would make the comments offered by VAG execs about that engine this AM look a little funny. Tes, VW has tried to contain this scandal amd minimize it at every opportunity, if they had put a fraction of that effort into better corporate culture adn governance then maybe this never happens. Or is it too much to expect a corporate citizen to behave in a responsible and trustworthy manner. This issue has roost in Europe, so maybe the poison seed of a more flexible Europeam Directive also plays a part in all manufacturers attempting defeat strategies..." they were all doing it.." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 (edited) http://www.engadget.com/2015/11/03/volkswagen-gasoline-emissions-lied/Now the Gas models are in this could even get worse. VW just send a memo to its dealer that says immediate stop sale order on 2015 and 2016 1.8T and 2.0T gasoline models. So VW dealers are not allowed to sell anything with 2.0TDI, 1.8T, the new 3rd gen EA888 2.0T (GTI, Jetta), and 3.0TDI. Basically, the only cars VW dealers are allowed to sell are: Left over 2015 Jetta base model with 2.slow 2016 Jetta with 1.4T CC and Tiguan that used 2nd gen EA888 2.0T Passat and Touareg with 3.6 VR6. The November sales report will be a fun read... Edited November 5, 2015 by bzcat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 (edited) $7 billion reserve for mitigation - likely recalls for cars with urea tank, and buybacks for cars without. No amount of that is to covered the fines, which will probably be higher than GM's $1 billion fine for the ignition switch because multiple national regulatory agencies are involved... US, California, Canada, EU, Germany etc. will all impose fines so the aggregate fines will probably easily doubles the GM amount, if not more. VW won't be forced to sell anything. The $7 billion reserve is phantom money... It will affect earnings this year but not cash flow. VW will pay for the repairs and buyback over several years so the impact to cash flow will be pretty well isolated. The way things are right now, Audi and Porsche will hardly be tainted. They will just carry on as if nothing happened. Both company had weathered much worse scandals in the past. However, if dieselgate extends beyond the single 2.0 TDI engine, then all bets are off... What are the odds that Audi's 3.0 TDI V6 also fails emission? If you are betting man, would you put money on VW cheating in gasoline engine emission too? BTW... I mentioned the possibility that VW was cheating on 3.0TDI and gasoline engines way back when this thing first broke. Edited November 5, 2015 by bzcat 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 Well, Kreskin, predicting that "crooked company is even more crooked than first thought" doesn't exactly put you out on a limb 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PREMiERdrum Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 VW just send a memo to its dealer that says immediate stop sale order on 2015 and 2016 1.8T and 2.0T gasoline models. So VW dealers are not allowed to sell anything with 2.0TDI, 1.8T, the new 3rd gen EA888 2.0T (GTI, Jetta), and 3.0TDI. Basically, the only cars VW dealers are allowed to sell are: Left over 2015 Jetta base model with 2.slow 2016 Jetta with 1.4T CC and Tiguan that used 2nd gen EA888 2.0T Passat and Touareg with 3.6 VR6. The November sales report will be a fun read... Holy smokes. Literally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 Holy Frack! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blwnsmoke Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 I feel bad for the sales people who are on commission. First the TDIs, now almost every VW.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrewfanGRB Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 I wonder if VW will have to start pouring money into dealerships, to some extent just to keep them afloat. I know it sounds sort of fantastical, but right now, they basically have nothing to sell. Is VW waiving their floorplanning costs for the vehicles on the lot but subject to stop sale? The other thing, to me, is what about the sales people? As Blwnsmoke notes, they're not getting any commissions, essentially. They have nothing to sell and even if they did, I'm guessing sales would be cratering (or at least down a sizable amount). Nobody can wait out a VW recovery forever, so I bet these sales people will start leaving in droves. Is or will VW make some sort of supplement or subsidy payment to dealers for them to use to maintain a particular level of compensation for sales people? What I'm getting at is even if VW waives all floorplanning costs on the stop sale vehicles, or even if they waive it on ALL vehicles, how many dealers are selling enough vehicles just to keep the lights on? And even IF they are staying afloat, what do they do when all their salespeople bail? Sure, the sales manager probably picks up a lot of this, but man... I might just be thinking on hyperbole overdrive here, but I can see this being a far, far worse thing for VW than merely reduced sales for some period of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 I'm guessing that the big money maker for any VW dealer is the service center. And yeah, I'm also guessing that sales reps are being laid off if they're on salary + commission, and starving if they're on straight commission. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Our service experience with my wife's beetle was excellent, it's just if I saw them any more I'd have felt obligated to invite them to Christmas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MY93SHO Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Don't forget used cars. Won't make up for lost new car sales but you can still sell something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrewfanGRB Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 The service centers and used cars are really good points that I whiffed on when coming up with my post. I still wonder if they're really making enough to cover the floorplan, though, unless VW subsidizes or waives those costs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 I bet they make far more on a used car than a new car looking at wholesale vs retail prices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 (edited) The service centers and used cars are really good points that I whiffed on when coming up with my post. I still wonder if they're really making enough to cover the floorplan, though, unless VW subsidizes or waives those costs. That's an interesting question. If VW has barred sale of vehicles that a dealership already has in inventory, does VW issue a temporary credit to offset the loan, or is the dealer stuck paying interest on loans for cars that he can't sell? Edited November 8, 2015 by RichardJensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 (edited) That's an interesting question. If VW has barred sale of vehicles that a dealership already has in inventory, does VW issue a temporary credit to offset the loan, or is the dealer stuck paying interest on loans for cars that he can't sell? Great point, all those dealers must be in line for compensation. VW has to be on the hook for any costs with stoppages, delays and remedial work. Edited November 8, 2015 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomcat68 Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 I bet they make far more on a used car than a new car looking at wholesale vs retail prices. You most certainly do! In my brief car salesman days, I'd much rather have sold a good used car. And there's a lot more negotiation space for a customer too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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