jasonj80 Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 On another note, I'm concerned that this will start a huge price war in War in Europe and China for VW to maintain any hope of sales for the next few months. Probably see some even bigger discounts in the markets VW competes in here in the US. (Golf, Jetta, Passat, etc) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 I was wondering how they got by without SCR catalysts and DEF on many of their cars. There's my answer: They couldn't. Well, obviously they can meet emissions in the test mode without SCR and DEF. But, can they meet them all the time? You may be on to something. Maybe they could not meet emissions long term, or have decent drivability without SCR and DEF, so they cheated. If that is the case, then these cars may have serious issues with drivability after the issue is fixed, or they would have to retrofit every car with SCR and DEF. Wow! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKII Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 (edited) This article in German explains/assumes some reasons why VW did what they did http://www.manager-magazin.de/unternehmen/autoindustrie/dirty-diesel-skandal-volkswagen-sparte-an-katalysatoren-a-1054007.html Edited September 22, 2015 by MKII Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4d4evr-1 Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 This makes me wonder what the long term repercussions are going to be for VW....can they afford all the fines they are going to have to pay? How is this going to affect long term product changes? Also say the EPA nails them for a couple billion...what does the US Government do with that money? Pay down the deficit? LOL Maybe Sergio will buy them.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 Wow seeing these articles on Facebook and the comments...lots of VW apologists out there...they are like F the EPA! SMH 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddysystem Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 There's an interesting comment on Automotive News suggesting that this fiasco may damage diesel cars sales in the same way that the Oldsmobile diesel fiasco did to GM back in the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKII Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 Many of the comments I am reading from Germans is they are curious how the fines levied against VW will compare to the (shamefully weak) latest fines (settlement) GM suffered from the ignition debacle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 Insane, their stock is currently down 36% from Friday's value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 It looks like the 2.0L TDI Audi A3 is not part of the recall and has been cleared . It appears that the affected vehicles are the 2009 through 2015 Jetta, the 2010 through 2015 Golf, the 2013 through 2015 Beetle, the 2012 through 2015 Passat, and the 2009 through 2015 Golf Wagon with the 2.0L TDI all built in NA.It seems vehicles built elsewhere are not affected. So maybe VW NA was pulling a fast one with out Wolfsburg knowing, pretty ballsy if they did but I doubt that Wolfsburg was not in the loop. What will be telling is what kind of package Michael Horn (CEO Volkswagen North America) receives if he is turfed over this. Huh? A3 TDI is on the recall list in the US. Recalled vehicles are made in Germany, Mexico, and US. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 Many of the comments I am reading from Germans is they are curious how the fines levied against VW will compare to the (shamefully weak) latest fines (settlement) GM suffered from the ignition debacle. GM's ignition switch wasn't designed to bypass regulation. They didn't make an ignition switch to behave one way during Govt testing and another way during everyday use. They made a design change at the request of their customers (who reported the ignition was too difficult to rotate - the effort required was too high to turn the key). VW committed fraud on a worldwide scale. The two doesn't even compare. Laws in US (and most of Europe) focus on intent - GM didn't intent to break the law, although they did cover up once they knew the ignition switch had problems. VW intended to break the law - and there is ample evidence that it tried to cover up as well. It's the same principle that we give people less severe jail terms for manslaughter vs. murder. VW will get a massive fine and some executives will probably face criminal inquiries in both US and Europe. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 GM's ignition switch wasn't designed to bypass regulation. They didn't make an ignition switch to behave one way during Govt testing and another way during everyday use. They made a design change at the request of their customers (who reported the ignition was too difficult to rotate - the effort required was too high to turn the key). VW committed fraud on a worldwide scale. The two doesn't even compare. Laws in US (and most of Europe) focus on intent - GM didn't intent to break the law, although they did cover up once they knew the ignition switch had problems. VW intended to break the law - and there is ample evidence that it tried to cover up as well. It's the same principle that we give people less severe jail terms for manslaughter vs. murder. VW will get a massive fine and some executives will probably face criminal inquiries in both US and Europe. Agreed, willful fraud is absolutely the worst and will cost them dearly 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 They did it worldwide, 11 million vehicles! http://www.autonews.com/article/20150922/COPY01/309229952/vw-says-11-million-diesel-vehicles-worldwide-have-rigged-emissions http://jalopnik.com/volkswagen-admits-it-cheated-with-11-million-engines-s-1732283322 I like how the Italian environmental agency (whatever it's called) is just like "you followed emissions guidelines for vehicles sold here right?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 Folks, VW is setting aside 1/3rd of all of their cash on hand in order to address this issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackinaw Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 Just read that VW may not be the only manufacturer that was gaming the system. The European “Transit and Environment” group is suggesting Opel, BMW and Mercedes may have used similar software to pass air quality tests. You can read more on the Automotive News website. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-150 Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 Tinfoil hat on: Piech wanted Winterkorn out and failed. maybe he gets his way. I also think Piech is responsible for fluoride and chemtrails. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 chemtrails. ermahgerd chemtrails!!! Know what else they don't wnat you ter know erbout? Lost Vegas. Is where all teh aliens are. And teh Vax-teens--wich are vampire lizard people hybrid teenagers. And teh hand-bergers--which is the mcdonalds burgers made from hands. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-150 Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 ermahgerd chemtrails!!! Know what else they don't wnat you ter know erbout? Lost Vegas. Is where all teh aliens are. And teh Vax-teens--wich are vampire lizard people hybrid teenagers. And teh hand-bergers--which is the mcdonalds burgers made from hands. Marchionne is a reptilian overlord.so is Ghosn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
92merc Posted September 22, 2015 Author Share Posted September 22, 2015 Marchionne is a reptilian overlord.so is Ghosn. And here I thought Marchionne was weird because he's Italian. Well that explains a lot... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 I'm simply staggered at the hubris and contempt of VW engineering, they absolutely knew what they were doing but you watch this be spun as simply misunderstanding that the cars had to do more than just pass an on demand emission test.. "You mean we have to make our cars emission compliant all the time?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 Folks, VW is setting aside 1/3rd of all of their cash on hand in order to address this issue. I don't think that will be anywhere near enough...do you? I hope they are forced to sell Audi and Porsche, being associated with VW may not be good for business.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 And here I thought Marchionne was weird because he's Italian. Well that explains a lot... Hey! I resent resemble resent that remark!!! Lol 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 (edited) Folks, VW is setting aside 1/3rd of all of their cash on hand in order to address this issue. $7 billion reserve for mitigation - likely recalls for cars with urea tank, and buybacks for cars without. No amount of that is to covered the fines, which will probably be higher than GM's $1 billion fine for the ignition switch because multiple national regulatory agencies are involved... US, California, Canada, EU, Germany etc. will all impose fines so the aggregate fines will probably easily doubles the GM amount, if not more. I don't think that will be anywhere near enough...do you? I hope they are forced to sell Audi and Porsche, being associated with VW may not be good for business.. VW won't be forced to sell anything. The $7 billion reserve is phantom money... It will affect earnings this year but not cash flow. VW will pay for the repairs and buyback over several years so the impact to cash flow will be pretty well isolated. The way things are right now, Audi and Porsche will hardly be tainted. They will just carry on as if nothing happened. Both company had weathered much worse scandals in the past. However, if dieselgate extends beyond the single 2.0 TDI engine, then all bets are off... What are the odds that Audi's 3.0 TDI V6 also fails emission? If you are betting man, would you put money on VW cheating in gasoline engine emission too? Edited September 22, 2015 by bzcat 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2b2 Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 I don't think that will be anywhere near enough...do you? I hope they are forced to sell Audi and Porsche, being associated with VW may not be good for business.. & how about eliminating the VW name from the U.S? replace them with Skodas?? (I know that doesn't really change anything - just my way of rubbing salt into their wounds/eyes/fields) Marchionne is a reptilian overlord.so is Ghosn.reptile abuse! Reptile Abuse!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 However, if dieselgate extends beyond the single 2.0 TDI engine, then all bets are off... What are the odds that Audi's 3.0 TDI V6 also fails emission? If you are betting man, would you put money on VW cheating in gasoline engine emission too? It also begs the question of other makers doing the same thing...I thought that the makers where "self-certifying"? As for fines, I think part of it as to do with the agency...the EPA carries a bigger hammer vs the NTSB and the DOJ has a bigger one yet. This plays right into their wanting to punish white collar crime as of late also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 (edited) $7 billion reserve for mitigation - likely recalls for cars with urea tank, and buybacks for cars without. No amount of that is to covered the fines, which will probably be higher than GM's $1 billion fine for the ignition switch because multiple national regulatory agencies are involved... US, California, Canada, EU, Germany etc. will all impose fines so the aggregate fines will probably easily doubles the GM amount, if not more. VW won't be forced to sell anything. The $7 billion reserve is phantom money... It will affect earnings this year but not cash flow. VW will pay for the repairs and buyback over several years so the impact to cash flow will be pretty well isolated. The way things are right now, Audi and Porsche will hardly be tainted. They will just carry on as if nothing happened. Both company had weathered much worse scandals in the past. However, if dieselgate extends beyond the single 2.0 TDI engine, then all bets are off... What are the odds that Audi's 3.0 TDI V6 also fails emission? If you are betting man, would you put money on VW cheating in gasoline engine emission too? You're not seeing the big picture, VW has fucked up every market all over the world, not just the US, it's now at least 11 million vehicles..... and that's before we talk about government and regulator fines all over the world. This is huge mate. And this has to be bigger than VW, no matter how much they insist it's only VW brand, other brands have been playing games with European tests too and it's probably fair to say that most companies there have not been properly audited to see if their cars do indeed comply.... Perhaps this is another reason why Ford resisted requests to bring diesel to the USA, maybe they knew something more about "passing" Euro tests versus meeting US EPA tests? Edited September 22, 2015 by jpd80 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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