Sevensecondsuv Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 FWIW I know dozens of people who drive the GMs, Expys and even a couple Excursions. Nobody, I mean nobody complains about fuel economy. It's just part of the package. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 I don't know guys.... Maybe I'm just used to having the V10 in my excursion. I love the thing to death but it is getting kind of old. I was hoping Ford would hit a home run with the new expy and tempt me into a show room. I could be talked into giving up the 3/4 ton running gear but I'd be hard pressed to trade that V10 for a 3.5eb. It's just a completely different (lesser in my book) class of motor. I'm sorry but I would buy a GM over either ecoboost motor. Eight is just the minimum number of cylinders to feel right in one of these things. And I bleed Ford blue. I can't imagine buyers already in a GM or with less brand loyalty would be any more tempted by the expy than I am. Then go buy a GM SUV with its V8 and stop complaining 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 Can't say I did too badly, given that I drew this 8 years ago.... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomcat68 Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 Can't say I did too badly, given that I drew this 8 years ago.... Actually I think your drawing is what the Escape should have looked like. I like it. The real Expy is almost exactly what I imagined it would look like. It doesn't stray too far off from what it looks like now, so it wont p*** off current owners and it added a little Explorer elements as well. The thing that surprised me is the Flex like grille. And I really like that part. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snooter Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 Whats a new chebby introduction doing here...i will admit the new suburban does look nice.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blksn8k2 Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 Is it that much heavier than a crew cab pickup? Back on the diesel option, the 3.0L V6 might be ok in the F-150 for those more concerned about fuel mileage but I don't think that engine would be adequate for someone wanting a large towing rig which is why a lot of buyers would be looking at the Expedition. If all they wanted was an SUV with a lot of seats the Explorer can handle that. The Expy also has a full frame which should also make it a better tow rig. If it's intended use is to tow horse trailers or larger boats and you want a diesel I would think something like the 4.4L Lion V8 diesel would be a better choice than the 3.0L. Anyone wanting to tow heavy trailers (over 9k lbs) with an F-150 probably wouldn't be happy with the 3.0L diesel either. Personally, I would rather have the 3.5EB than any diesel just because of the maintenance costs and headaches associated with diesels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 FWIW I know dozens of people who drive the GMs, Expys and even a couple Excursions. Nobody, I mean nobody complains about fuel economy. It's just part of the package. Just because they don't complain doesn't mean they wouldn't like a little better fuel economy. I drive a Super Duty, and I typically don't complain about fuel economy (thought sometimes I do since it has the horrible-on-fuel 6.4L), but damn straight I would love to have another few MPG. Back on the diesel option, the 3.0L V6 might be ok in the F-150 for those more concerned about fuel mileage but I don't think that engine would be adequate for someone wanting a large towing rig which is why a lot of buyers would be looking at the Expedition. If all they wanted was an SUV with a lot of seats the Explorer can handle that. The Expy also has a full frame which should also make it a better tow rig. If it's intended use is to tow horse trailers or larger boats and you want a diesel I would think something like the 4.4L Lion V8 diesel would be a better choice than the 3.0L. Anyone wanting to tow heavy trailers (over 9k lbs) with an F-150 probably wouldn't be happy with the 3.0L diesel either. Personally, I would rather have the 3.5EB than any diesel just because of the maintenance costs and headaches associated with diesels. Ford has mentioned that the 3.0L diesel will be geared for those who tow regularly. I'm sure it will blow the EB away in fuel economy when heavily loaded. But, I'm right there with you...I'd rather have the 3.5L EB than a diesel to avoid the maintenance and other issues associated with today's emissions-friendly diesels, and my guess is that's a big reason it isn't showing up in the Expedition...yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 I see that the Expedition has grown 4 inches...is this in response to CAFE footprint requirements? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MY93SHO Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 I don't know guys.... Maybe I'm just used to having the V10 in my excursion. I love the thing to death but it is getting kind of old. I was hoping Ford would hit a home run with the new expy and tempt me into a show room. I could be talked into giving up the 3/4 ton running gear but I'd be hard pressed to trade that V10 for a 3.5eb. It's just a completely different (lesser in my book) class of motor. I'm sorry but I would buy a GM over either ecoboost motor. Eight is just the minimum number of cylinders to feel right in one of these things. And I bleed Ford blue. I can't imagine buyers already in a GM or with less brand loyalty would be any more tempted by the expy than I am. I have a 2.7EB in a Super Crew 4X4 and it does just fine. It has the same 0-60 time as my brothers Hemi Ram. You don't know what your talking about. Don't tell me how great the GM V8's are, I work at a GM dealership. I'm the one who handles/ scraps all the warranty camshafts/ lifters and pistons from the "super" V8's. That's not counting the non-warranty repairs. We just priced a 4.8LS for a 2014 G-van, out of warranty. If the Ecoboosts are such a failure why isn't that reflected in the sales numbers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 Ford has mentioned that the 3.0L diesel will be geared for those who tow regularly. I'm sure it will blow the EB away in fuel economy when heavily loaded. But, I'm right there with you...I'd rather have the 3.5L EB than a diesel to avoid the maintenance and other issues associated with today's emissions-friendly diesels, and my guess is that's a big reason it isn't showing up in the Expedition...yet. That's just it - I think the 3.5LEB will be better for heavy towing than the 4.4L. You'd have to jump to the 6.7L diesel to get significantly better towing performance. So yes, the 3.0L would be for lighter towing (relatively speaking) and better fuel economy but I still think it's a viable technical option, although the take rate may be too low to make it financially viable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 That's just it - I think the 3.5LEB will be better for heavy towing than the 4.4L. You'd have to jump to the 6.7L diesel to get significantly better towing performance. So yes, the 3.0L would be for lighter towing (relatively speaking) and better fuel economy but I still think it's a viable technical option, although the take rate may be too low to make it financially viable. I don't expect the 3.0L to be for lighter towing than the 3.5L EB. Due to the higher HP of the 3.5L, I expect it to tow 'better' than the diesel. I expect the tow rating of the diesel to match the 3.5L, but I expect the 3.0L to get 20-25% better fuel economy towing the same loads. In all honesty, if you need to tow the 12k lbs. these half tons are rated at, you need to be doing it with a larger truck than an F150. Heck, I only tow 9.5-10k, and I wouldn't feel comfortable with my fifth wheel behind and F150. If an EcoBoost was available in the Super Duty though, I'm 99% sure I would have ordered that over the 6.7L and it's $8800 sticker price! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 You don't need to lecture me about turbos. Believe it or not, I was driving a turbo charged 4 cyl Ranger years before Ford coined the term "Ecoboost". Yes I've got experience with the 3.5eb F150s. Yes it's a great engine in the f150. But it's not a V8. It might pull like one but it doesn't feel like one. For a lot of applications this is just fine, but there's a reason Ford still offers the 5.0 alongside it. I think the same thing applies to the expy, except that an even higher percentage of buyers will insist on a V8 regardless of what the numbers say. So basically you just like the idea of a V8, and less torque at lower rpm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blksn8k2 Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 I saw elsewhere that the Ford Canada website supposedly shows two different power ratings for the 3.5 in the '18 Expy. They claimed it states 400 HP / 480 LB FT for the Platinum and 365 HP / 450 LB FT for all other trims. I looked but I couldn't find any power ratings for the '18. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blksn8k2 Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 Just because they don't complain doesn't mean they wouldn't like a little better fuel economy. I drive a Super Duty, and I typically don't complain about fuel economy (thought sometimes I do since it has the horrible-on-fuel 6.4L), but damn straight I would love to have another few MPG. Ford has mentioned that the 3.0L diesel will be geared for those who tow regularly. I'm sure it will blow the EB away in fuel economy when heavily loaded. But, I'm right there with you...I'd rather have the 3.5L EB than a diesel to avoid the maintenance and other issues associated with today's emissions-friendly diesels, and my guess is that's a big reason it isn't showing up in the Expedition...yet. This might not be an apples to apples comparison but I have seen towing tests of the Ram EcoDiesel (I can't bring myself to say ED...LOL) and that thing is a joke. Even the 1st gen 2.7EB blows it away on power even if it can't quite match its MPG. Again, why would you buy this large of an SUV if you were not planning to tow heavy stuff and why would you handicap it with a too small diesel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 (edited) This might not be an apples to apples comparison but I have seen towing tests of the Ram EcoDiesel (I can't bring myself to say ED...LOL) and that thing is a joke. Even the 1st gen 2.7EB blows it away on power even if it can't quite match its MPG. Again, why would you buy this large of an SUV if you were not planning to tow heavy stuff and why would you handicap it with a too small diesel? I agree with you. I am of the belief that the 3.0L is not going to be 'a too small diesel' for its intended purposes. If there is one thing Ford knows, it's towing with their trucks. I don't expect the 3.0L to be a slouch when it comes to towing. I'm expecting 275 ish HP and torque numbers similar to the 3.5L EB, with the torque peak being lower in the range for the diesel. Edited February 8, 2017 by fordmantpw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 You don't need to lecture me about turbos. Believe it or not, I was driving a turbo charged 4 cyl Ranger years before Ford coined the term "Ecoboost". Yes I've got experience with the 3.5eb F150s. Yes it's a great engine in the f150. But it's not a V8. It might pull like one but it doesn't feel like one. For a lot of applications this is just fine, but there's a reason Ford still offers the 5.0 alongside it. I think the same thing applies to the expy, except that an even higher percentage of buyers will insist on a V8 regardless of what the numbers say. I'm trading a V8 Raptor for a V6 Raptor. I will say that I wonder about the sound, but it isn't stopping me because of every other positive aspect of the vehicle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 Again, why would you buy this large of an SUV if you were not planning to tow heavy stuff For the same reason most new car buyers buy the vehicles they do--they want them. I'd bet that most Expeditions will never tow a trailer, let alone a heavy trailer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 Can't say I did too badly, given that I drew this 8 years ago.... Nice work RMC, that's pretty darn close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 I have a 2.7EB in a Super Crew 4X4 and it does just fine. It has the same 0-60 time as my brothers Hemi Ram. You don't know what your talking about. Don't tell me how great the GM V8's are, I work at a GM dealership. I'm the one who handles/ scraps all the warranty camshafts/ lifters and pistons from the "super" V8's. That's not counting the non-warranty repairs. We just priced a 4.8LS for a 2014 G-van, out of warranty. If the Ecoboosts are such a failure why isn't that reflected in the sales numbers? Does the owner like your F150 sitting in the parking lot? I'll bet you get a lot of flak from your counterparts, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 I see that the Expedition has grown 4 inches...is this in response to CAFE footprint requirements? Possibly. I get the impression it was more because they could get away with it with the switch to aluminum body panels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 Again, why would you buy this large of an SUV if you were not planning to tow heavy stuff and why would you handicap it with a too small diesel? Because this is America where we crave the biggest gigantic truck we can barely afford and then scream bloody murder when gas prices go up and it costs $200+ per fill up, then demand small cars only to completely abandon them (again) when gas is cheap. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 I see that the Expedition has grown 4 inches...is this in response to CAFE footprint requirements? I suppose it could be....I think it's partially just to give more space/easier access to the third row in the regular model. Plus, if you think about how vehicles typically grow with each redesign, the Expy skipped at least one redesign, so it's making up for that :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 I see that the Expedition has grown 4 inches...is this in response to CAFE footprint requirements? How is it size-wise in comparison to the GM SUVs? Not sure if the old Expy was smaller than them and the 4 inches brings them into parity or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevensecondsuv Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 So basically you just like the idea of a V8, and less torque at lower rpm. I dont think its quite that simple. I'd like to see the torque curves overlayed for the 3.5eb and the GM 6.2. I don't doubt that the eb out torques the 6.2 from about 2000-4000, but the 6.2 is going to have it all over the 3.5 in terms of off-idle (say 900 to 1700 or so) torque. I know the 3.5eb uses pretty small turbos and the wastegates are electronically controlled to ensure boost as low as possible, but until it gets into boost, it's just a 3.5l V6. Now some will argue that it doesn't matter below 1750 rpm, and im sure it probably doesn't show up in the 0-60 times. But it absolutely makes a difference in how the truck feels when you step on the gas from a dead stop. Again, need to see the torque curves on top of each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blazerdude20 Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 How is it size-wise in comparison to the GM SUVs? Not sure if the old Expy was smaller than them and the 4 inches brings them into parity or not. 2017 Tahoe: 204" 2017 expedition: 206.5" 2018 expedition: 210.5" 2017 suburban: 224.4" 2017 expedition El: 221.3" 2018 expedition Max: 222.3" 2017 Armada: 208" 2017 Sequoia: 205" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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