akirby Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 We will see if GM can hold the line this time. Their inventory level is swelling right now. So they can either, increase fleet sale, adding new incentive on top of existing ones, or reduce production in Q2. I very much doubt they'll the right thing (the last option). Sales volume is like crack to GM managers. They can't help themselves. Who else builds specific non-commercial models that are fleet only? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
630land Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 (edited) Ford's fleet sales are not like the days of 2000-07, with white or beige Tauruses getting dumped. Now, most likely will get a Korean brand when renting. Edited April 3, 2017 by 630land Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 At least Ford doesn't build vehicles that are only sold to Fleets like GM's classic models. This is a good point. Unless they've changed significantly, Ford's repurchase agreements with rental companies require a mix of vehicles that approximate overall production, so the market isn't flooded with "S" level vehicles that have minimal options and are dirt cheap (see the DN101 Taurus for an example of how not to do this) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 They went from 440K in 2007 to 260K in 2016 and holding steady - they are not ramping up anything. To preface that with some other numbers: SAAR in 2007:16.1 million SAAR in 2017 (as of March) 17.3 million units Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 I suppose it can be a good deal for fleet customers, because of the huge price concessions they get compared to real retail customers. But it's bad for automakers to rely on those fleet customers as they're not as profitable. In some cases the automaker may not break even with those sales. That's why GM and FCA made a concerted effort to dramatically scale back fleet sales in the past two years, and it seems Ford is now going in the same direction. Right... so Ford should stop selling Transit and F-350 because they are not profitable. Every month you make the same simpleton idiotic statement, and every month people educate you but I guess there is no getting thru your bubble. Ford's fleet % is highest in the business because Ford dominates pickup truck and van sales. I would be really worried if Ford doesn't dominate fleet sales in any month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 And don't think for a minute that GM or FCA wouldn't take Ford's fleet business if offered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 And then we have everything in proportion with fleet sales percentages staying similar to last year, all are in proportion with the drop in sales with both fleet and retail sales pulling back. Sales are slowing dramatically in the car segments, Utilities are flat, slightly declining but trucks and large Utliities are continuing to power on. A lot of those sales reductions has to do with buyers not returning to cars and some utilities and also Ford choosing not to pump the market with big incentives. Eyes are clearly foucsed on the more profitable F Series and what ever Expedition sales are out there... this is Ford playing to its strengths with fresh new trucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grbeck Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 A bit of perspective on car sales - sales of the Honda Civic were down 4.1 percent in March, and I don't believe that anyone would call it stale, uncompetitive or a flop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 A bit of perspective on car sales - sales of the Honda Civic were down 4.1 percent in March, and I don't believe that anyone would call it stale, uncompetitive or a flop. depending on where you are at in the States, March was actually colder overall then Febuary. That doesn't encourage people to leave their houses to buy things either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
630land Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 Those who want to save $ getting a new get a compact, sicne these days they are roomier and more standard features*. Those with $ to spend want more room, and are getting xUV's. Those with $ to burn don't mind getting a car, as long as it's new design and loaded, hence the Continental doing well. *I cringe when someone writes "standard options". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnostic Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 Those who want to save $ getting a new get a compact, sicne these days they are roomier and more standard features*. Those with $ to spend want more room, and are getting xUV's. Those with $ to burn don't mind getting a car, as long as it's new design and loaded, hence the Continental doing well. *I cringe when someone writes "standard options". I always cringe when people talk about driving a standard transmission , meaning manual. Manuals haven't been standard in a long time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 I always cringe when people talk about driving a standard transmission , meaning manual. Manuals haven't been standard in a long time. Or worse - people who say 5-speed or 6-speed instead of manual. As if automatics are still only 3 or 4 speeds. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlRozzi Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 To summarize - GM good, Ford bad. Nice. I had been so confused with the details. But seriously, I suspect FCA's fleet % is down because they don't make cars anymore (almost). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blazerdude20 Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 (edited) 6 or 7 years ago Ford pressed on rental companies that they had to order a product mix that aligned with retail customers. If 60% of retail buyers get an XLT, 10% base, & 30% limited then the rental companies had to buy the same percentages in those trims. If they refused, Ford threatened to eliminate incentives for rental. The rental companies still pay less than retail, and when they sell used, they sell for more money because they are trims people actually want. It was a win, win for Ford and rental companies. Also a win for new ford buyers and their resale value. Edited April 4, 2017 by blazerdude20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 If you look at the 2018 Focus order guide you'll notice that only 6% of the build mix for the S model is for retail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 If you look at the 2018 Focus order guide you'll notice that only 6% of the build mix for the S model is for retail. and of the near 18,000 Focus in national dealer stock, only about 2,000 are S trim, 9,500 are SE trim, 3,866 are SEL, 2,100 are Titanium and the rest 428 are presumably, ST. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonj80 Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 (edited) If you look at the 2018 Focus order guide you'll notice that only 6% of the build mix for the S model is for retail. Also nice that they eliminated all the ambient lighting from the doors pockets and handles as well, Ford going back to its good old decontenting ways. Little bit here, little bit there... Edited April 5, 2017 by jasonj80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 and of the near 18,000 Focus in national dealer stock, only about 2,000 are S trim, 9,500 are SE trim, 3,866 are SEL, 2,100 are Titanium and the rest 428 are presumably, ST. some of those are probably RS. I see quite a few in the holding lot across the street front FRAP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 Also nice that they eliminated all the ambient lighting from the doors pockets and handles as well, Ford going back to its good old decontenting ways. Little bit here, little bit there... I noticed that too. Makes my job easier though so I can't complain too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harley Lover Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 Is it time to start wondering what is wrong with Edge sales? In a sea of stories about how the market is swinging so heavily to CUV's, shouldn't this product be performing better than it is? Edge's sales performance is particularly biting to Ford, as its product line stablemate Flex is a non factor, volume wise. Escape and Explorer appear to be holding their own, although somewhat tepidly in the case of the Explorer. What do you guys think? Am I making too much mountain out of a mole hill on this, or is Edge worrisome for Ford? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKX1960 Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 I always cringe when people talk about driving a standard transmission , meaning manual. Manuals haven't been standard in a long time. That's back in my day when "standard" meant not automatic. The automatic was just starting to catch on, but many were afraid they would be a costly headache and still bought manual. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 2c from a salespersons/ fleet managers perspective...theres more to the sales being down than meets the eye, we are short on some big sellers, Platinum 150s for instance, and 4x4 F150s, plus Fords pushing the 2.7 BIG time with large rebates all the while cutting down on the other engines programs, the F150 lease program is also pretty uncompetitive, and in reality that's the way people were going to even get close to affording paying for ever increasing MSRPs...and that's Fords BIG seller. Superduties are going the same way...theres a $1000 rebate full stop for a cash/ outside financing....that's tiddlywinks on a vehicle that scan sticker for close to 80k. No lease programs on them either....jut 4.9 financing for 60 months..,.WOW...sign me up...lol....that, along with some exceptionally questionable calls from fords finance arm haven't helped at all....its almost like they are attempting to turn sales away if anything....very strange their "strategy" right now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 @Harley Lover....Edge leases aren't competitive either......you mention a $450 payment ( SEL ) to someone, its basically signing them visitation rights to other manufacturers..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 Is it time to start wondering what is wrong with Edge sales? In a sea of stories about how the market is swinging so heavily to CUV's, shouldn't this product be performing better than it is? Edge's sales performance is particularly biting to Ford, as its product line stablemate Flex is a non factor, volume wise. Escape and Explorer appear to be holding their own, although somewhat tepidly in the case of the Explorer. What do you guys think? Am I making too much mountain out of a mole hill on this, or is Edge worrisome for Ford? 2016 was the Edge's best sales year ever. Calendar Year Total American sales 2006[14] 2,202 2007 130,125 2008[15] 110,798 2009[16] 88,548 2010[17] 118,637 2011[18] 121,702 2012 127,969 2013 129,109[19] 2014 108,864[20] 2015 124,120[21] 2016 134,588 MKX sales are also way up, and Edge is now being exported. Rebates are a little high but not alarming at $2850. I think it's doing well all things considered, especially when you think about how many good competitors there are today versus 5 years ago. Some folks are also downsizing to Escapes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 2c from a salespersons/ fleet managers perspective...theres more to the sales being down than meets the eye, we are short on some big sellers, Platinum 150s for instance, and 4x4 F150s, plus Fords pushing the 2.7 BIG time with large rebates all the while cutting down on the other engines programs, the F150 lease program is also pretty uncompetitive, and in reality that's the way people were going to even get close to affording paying for ever increasing MSRPs...and that's Fords BIG seller. Superduties are going the same way...theres a $1000 rebate full stop for a cash/ outside financing....that's tiddlywinks on a vehicle that scan sticker for close to 80k. No lease programs on them either....jut 4.9 financing for 60 months..,.WOW...sign me up...lol....that, along with some exceptionally questionable calls from fords finance arm haven't helped at all....its almost like they are attempting to turn sales away if anything....very strange their "strategy" right now... If you're able to sell almost every vehicle you can produce with minimal incentives, why would you change? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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