akirby Posted May 11, 2017 Share Posted May 11, 2017 Midsized sedans aren't going away, they're just going to be a smaller market than they used to be, but still pretty significant in terms of volume. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZanatWork Posted May 11, 2017 Share Posted May 11, 2017 Midsized sedans aren't going away, they're just going to be a smaller market than they used to be, but still pretty significant in terms of volume. I wonder if the Fusion could take on an "EL" model of its own, the way Crown Vics used to have extended wheelbases for police/taxi fleets. As some Fusions are used in law enforcement, nowadays, it may not be a terrible approach. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted May 11, 2017 Share Posted May 11, 2017 I wonder if the Fusion could take on an "EL" model of its own, the way Crown Vics used to have extended wheelbases for police/taxi fleets. As some Fusions are used in law enforcement, nowadays, it may not be a terrible approach. If that happens, it won't be until the next gen comes out. Not a horrible idea though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted May 11, 2017 Share Posted May 11, 2017 I wonder if the Fusion could take on an "EL" model of its own, the way Crown Vics used to have extended wheelbases for police/taxi fleets. As some Fusions are used in law enforcement, nowadays, it may not be a terrible approach. That's exactly what we're talking about. Si,liar to what Toyota did with Camry and Avalon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted May 11, 2017 Share Posted May 11, 2017 Redesigned Fusion gets renamed Taurus. Redesigned Focus gets renamed Fusion. Redesigned Fiesta gets renamed Focus and sedan based on Ecosport is named Fiesta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 Midsized sedans aren't going away, they're just going to be a smaller market than they used to be, but still pretty significant in terms of volume. And I wonder if that opens up an opportunity for Ford in the future to deliver a car that appeals to those buyers that remain plus plays more to niche buyer who's looking for some Alpha like features but in a more affordable mid sized sedan package.....one door closes another opens. And then other thing I was thinking about the CD4 Taurus, replacing D3 Taurus would also free up more production space for Explorer - that may become a future reason for the inclusion of a companion for Continental at FRAP (A reworked Falcon?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 If any new product other than that electric SUV thing goes into FRAP it will be MKZ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 And I wonder if that opens up an opportunity for Ford in the future to deliver a car that appeals to those buyers that remain plus plays more to niche buyer who's looking for some Alpha like features but in a more affordable mid sized sedan package.....one door closes another opens. And then other thing I was thinking about the CD4 Taurus, replacing D3 Taurus would also free up more production space for Explorer - that may become a future reason for the inclusion of a companion for Continental at FRAP (A reworked Falcon?) Don't forget the grumblings about the Thunderbird making a comeback too...assuming the CD6 is what everyone is assuming it's going to be, a range topping rwd/AWD Thunderbird might not be out of the question. It would make more sense to invest in a product that would start in the mid-30k range in limited volumes vs one that starts in the mid-20k range that might sell an extra 20-30k units a year 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trailhiker Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 If Thunderbird comes back....I want a Cougar with a 5.0. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 Don't forget the grumblings about the Thunderbird making a comeback too...assuming the CD6 is what everyone is assuming it's going to be, a range topping rwd/AWD Thunderbird might not be out of the question. It would make more sense to invest in a product that would start in the mid-30k range in limited volumes vs one that starts in the mid-20k range that might sell an extra 20-30k units a year Hehe - I think I was the one who started the Tbird rumor when they cancelled the cd4 Taurus. But it makes perfect sense for the reasons you stated. If you're looking at a shrinking segment where you can't make any money trying to sell in volume, then you should maximize per vehicle profit. And if you assume that Lincoln gets cd6 sedans then it makes it easy to replace Taurus with something that has sportier styling and knockout performance that can be sold at a premium but is still built on a shared platform in a shared factory. It wouldn't make sense to do it on a dedicated platform or to do it at lower ATPs. But think next gen SHO taken to a new level that fits in with the Focus RS and Mustang GT350. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdegrand Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 I think the current design of the Taurus, which has been the same since 2010, is holding its own over and currently outselling its competition from Buick/LaCrosse, Lexus ES, and Toyota Avalon...which all of these have had significant design changes recently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 If Thunderbird comes back....I want a Cougar with a 5.0. A mustang and/or CD6 based Lincoln coupe was on the roadmap for 2020-ish at one time. Have not seen or heard anything about it lately. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 A mustang and/or CD6 based Lincoln coupe was on the roadmap for 2020-ish at one time. Have not seen or heard anything about it lately. I was told a few months ago that a Lincoln coupe was in the works....whether that's accurate (or still accurate), I'm not entirely sure, though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 The Sedan market isn't going to go away, just that market tastes at the moment perfer CUV's. If gas spikes up to $4/5 a gallon again, you'll see people returning to sedans. I don't think we will ever see CUV's making up 70-80% of the market. I think they'll top out at 60-65% Not everyone can afford a CUV or even wants one. There is a significant price difference between the two..for Example, just looking at Fusion SE vs Edge SE, there is about an average of $5K between them, which works out to about an extra $100 a month (48 months) between the two with similar down payments and APRs Agree on the market not going away. Seems like the Toyota and the Koreans seem to have confidence in that segment. Love my SHO, don't need a new car, but if that China Taurus were built here all of a sudden what I "need" vs. what I "want" might be a new story. Seems like we go through cycles. Friend of ours has had Lexus suvs for a long time. Finally convinced her to look at MKX and she bought one. She has said though-"why do I need this?" Her next vehicle might be a sedan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 (edited) I was told a few months ago that a Lincoln coupe was in the works....whether that's accurate (or still accurate), I'm not entirely sure, though. Which is even more reason why moving Mustang to a CD6 Architecture makes sense to me. CD6 2 door - Mustang, Cougar? CD6 4 door (2 wheelbases) - MKZ, Thunderbird?, Continental CD6 SUV - Explorer, Aviator, MKX? Everest? Sedans and coupes at FRAP, SUVs at CAP. Explorer, Aviator, Thunderbird replaces D4 (Explorer, Taurus, MKT, Flex) including PI and PIU. Edited May 12, 2017 by akirby 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
351cid Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 As someone with two small children who socializes a lot with other families, from what I've witnessed, people with three (or more) children have zero interest in any full-size passenger car. If they have a third child, they go right to either a minivan or a larger crossover. If they have the money, they buy or lease a brand-new one. If they don't have much money, they look for a used one. A wider Taurus isn't going to attract that type of customer. My son has two kids and one on the way. He & his wife have an Explorer and he is looking at a Taurus as his commuter. Mainly because 3 car seats will fit in the rear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 Which is even more reason why moving Mustang to a CD6 Architecture makes sense to me. CD6 2 door - Mustang, Cougar? CD6 4 door (2 wheelbases) - MKZ, Thunderbird?, Continental CD6 SUV - Explorer, Aviator, MKX? Everest? Sedans and coupes at FRAP, SUVs at CAP. Explorer, Aviator, Thunderbird replaces D4 (Explorer, Taurus, MKT, Flex) including PI and PIU. Makes a lot of sense to me (except the Cougar name). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jniffen Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 A few posts, I am included, were suggesting a Lincoln based Mustang, like the old Mercury Cougar of the 67-70 mindset. a little longer for luxury less muscle car. Also no fastback a true 2-door hard top, so there is room for adults in the back. Cougar - by Lincoln 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
630land Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 (edited) Don't see T-Bird/Cougar ever coming back. Unless as plush, stylish, driverless commuter cars many years from now. Even if gas prices go up, Ford has electrified UV's on the way. If Camry sales are slipping, then things are changing. Average buyers are not "car guys". Also, someone said "I thought 2017 was last". Never was officially posted. Just no "Chinese" one. TTAC.com has series "Mid size car death watch", started with end of Chrysler 200. Some more will get canned, I am betting on Mazda 6 and Kia whatever. Edited May 12, 2017 by 630land 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted May 13, 2017 Share Posted May 13, 2017 (edited) Wouldn't it be funny if the push for RWD cars and more premium product came in fact from Europe, a market that could build on the impressive sales surges experienced by ST, Titanium and Vignale. I wonder if that could force a change of thinking and encourage Ford to think premium RWD cars.. We need to stop thinking how GM developed its RWD and start thinking of the right way to do things which is to elevate the Ford brand to being a more premium brand. Edited May 13, 2017 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edselford Posted May 13, 2017 Share Posted May 13, 2017 New Taurus I'm on my second Taurus, first was a 2014 Taurus SEL FWD. Current is a 2016 SEL AWD. Both nice vehicles. I do like the handling of the AWD better than the front wheel drive. Also no torque steer with the 2016. I think you should not expect any changes to the Taurus before the Explorer is redone for 2019 or 2020. This is because both are built at Chicago Assembly and go down the same line. I have driven many Fusions, current model year and they are nice but the width is what stopped me from getting one last year. When the Explorer gets redone with added wheelbase and revised powertrains and transmission 9 speed, you can expect something to happen with the Taurus in terms of significant update. I do not think the Taurus will ever be like the Chinese version. Edselford 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted May 13, 2017 Share Posted May 13, 2017 I think you should not expect any changes to the Taurus before the Explorer is redone for 2019 or 2020. This is because both are built at Chicago Assembly and go down the same line. I have driven many Fusions, current model year and they are nice but the width is what stopped me from getting one last year. I spent the past week with a Fusion Hybrid and if the Fusion Sport was around in 2013, I would have gotten that instead of the SHO. I like the SHO, but overall the car is "too big" for my likes. I've driven mostly Mustangs and Focus/Escorts over the years, so I'm used to smaller cars. The SHO is unbeatable on the highway, but around town or parking, the bulk of it really shows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted May 13, 2017 Share Posted May 13, 2017 It wouldn't make sense to do it on a dedicated platform or to do it at lower ATPs. But think next gen SHO taken to a new level that fits in with the Focus RS and Mustang GT350. The "problem" with the SHO is that its around $47K loaded and pretty much through out its production run its had a generous rebate of about $4500 on it. The only make about 8K SHO's a year (at least thats what my production certificate said in 2013 my wife got me) I'm not sure if they could really sell say 20-30K of them with no discounts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted May 13, 2017 Share Posted May 13, 2017 and perhaps Ford was right to not proceed with the CD4 Taurus, the advantages that flow from a fresher large car or even displacement from CAP to make more Explorers wasn't compelling enough to justify all the upheaval now. You can see that any changes will be batched with a change at CAP, when a NG Explorer eventually arrives, it's likely that Ford will be able to address the need for a new large car (or not) at that time. Perhaps the NG Taurus stays linked to the NG Explorer and uses its higher ride height to become a crossover... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted May 13, 2017 Share Posted May 13, 2017 Perhaps the NG Taurus stays linked to the NG Explorer and uses its higher ride height to become a crossover... What would be the point of that? All you would be doing is stepping on the toes of the Explorer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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