tbone Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 I guess rperez817 would rather have companies buy GM or RAM products for their work trucks! It seems as such, since he doesn't appear to be a fan of Ford. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardK Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 (edited) Good to see Lincoln back positive after a couple of slightly down months. And over 10,000 sold too, something they didn't do at all last year aside from December, which obviously always has inflated numbers. The new Navigator should give the brand a shot in the arm at the end of the year (and next year of course). MKC continues to rise, while MKX would be down the whole year if it weren't for a big January. It'd be nice to see it push past the 3,000 level consistently. It's a great vehicle, I wonder why it isn't doing better. It'll be interesting to see what the new face will do for sales when it comes. -- As for Ford, nice to see Edge bump up. Like MKX, its sales haven't been gaining traction for some reason either. I wonder why that is? Explorer with a nice (random) bump. Trucks keep chugging along nicely. Lincoln with 10288 units had a chance to catch Infinity. However, Infinity jumped 15.6% to 12514. Lexus having some issues dropping 4.8% to 25401 and Acura dropping 1.3% to 12514. Edited June 2, 2017 by RichardK 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardK Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 ...and those percentages are pretty flat compared to last year. I'm curious, does anyone know which vehicles tend to be sold most to rental companies from Ford? It seems to be Focus and Fusion, with some Edge and Explorer. I rent from Avis a lot and this is what I notice anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 More good news: F-Series...............76,027 (67,412) (+12.8%) Silverado............ .43,804 (45,035) (-13.0%)Sierra ................ .16,200 (17,642) (-8.2%) Total.....................60,004 Colorado...............9,091 (9,196) (-1.1%) Canyon ................2,477 (3,361) (-26.3%) Total.....................11,568 So with all BOFs compared, Ford is less than 2,000 units behind.. F-Series curb stomped the Sierraverado, outselling them by more than 25%. They even beat the combined Sierraverado and Canyorado by a decent margin... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 F-Series curb stomped the Sierraverado, outselling them by more than 25%. They even beat the combined Sierraverado and Canyorado by a decent margin... And yet they keep running those stupid landscape block commercials..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 Well, they have nothing else to run, and they figure they are paid for a this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 Sadly it looks like fleet dumping resumed last month at Ford to get the 2.2% sales increase. Over one third of sales! It's like a drug addict that relapsed. Would you rather Ford sell zero Transit to bring the fleet % down? I mean comments like this one are so idiotic on its face it's like one of Trump's late night tweets. And if you actually parse the numbers, you 'll see that Ford's days sales in inventory barely budged. The one month fluctuation in rental deliveries are pretty much statistic noise. Look at the YTD rental sales %... basically no change. And even if we agree that one month jump in rental delivery is "dumping", the 2.2% increase works out to about 6,000 units. Meanwhile, F-series sales increased by about 8,500 units. So that "dumping" didn't really drive the overall results that much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdegrand Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 So i guess the excuse for abysmal mustang sales can no longer be the weather...no body wants a car..not even a mustang...well its the new norm for nowMustang still outsells Camaro by almost 8000 units and Challenger by 9000 units through first 5 months this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 (edited) oh my god for the last time ITS NOT A GODDAMN FLEET DUMP Ford retail sales for May 2017 were down 0.8% compared to May 2016. Fleet sales were up 8.4% in the same period. If not for all of those fleet sales, Ford sales overall would have declined last month. Fleet sales percentage May 2017. Ford 34.4% GM 19.4% FCA NA 21% Sales increase/decrease by type May 2017. Ford fleet up 8.4%, retail down 0.8% GM fleet down 6.8%, retail up 0.3% FCA NA fleet down 7%, retail up 1% Edited June 2, 2017 by rperez817 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 Ford retail sales for May 2017 were down 0.8% compared to May 2016. Fleet sales were up 8.4% in the same period. If not for all of those fleet sales, Ford sales overall would have declined last month. Fleet sales percentage May 2017. Ford 34.4% GM 19.4% FCA NA 21% Sales increase/decrease by type May 2017. Ford fleet up 8.4%, retail down 0.8% GM fleet down 6.8%, retail up 0.3% FCA NA fleet down 7%, retail up 1% Ok. Still not a fleet dump. Just admit it, the only reason you don't like it is because GM didn't do it and Ford did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snooter Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 I do question focus may sales...how many did go to rental fleet..no way they sold that many to private individuals....those numbers suggest ford did dump focus on rental fleets...at least to me..just do not believe thiose may numbers.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 Still doesn't understand fleet sales. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 (edited) I do question focus may sales...how many did go to rental fleet..no way they sold that many to private individuals....those numbers suggest ford did dump focus on rental fleets...at least to me..just do not believe thiose may numbers.. The number slightly lower than same time last year, sales are starting to pick up as we head into the driving season. By comparison the much new Cruze sold around the same amount, GM's compact sales being eroded since the arrival of Trax. There is some fleet ordeing in there for sure but would daily rentals choose Focus over newer and cheaper compacts from competitors? YTD sales of Focus are down 19.7% to 67,145 from 83,653 last year. Edited June 2, 2017 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 (edited) "It's pure timing related," Mark LaNeve, Ford's vice president of U.S. marketing, sales and service, said about the fleet spike. "It's very dependent on a combination of when our customers want the vehicles, and when we can build them." Rather than sales dumping I would believe what Mark laNeve is saying regarding the timing of fleet orders, it explains why we we see months that are down and up Ford outsold GM 240,250 to 237,364. LaNeve said that's because of the increase in fleet sales, and that the company doesn't pay much attention to the rivalry. "Feels good for about 10 seconds, but we're moving on to June," he said. Edited June 2, 2017 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 (edited) Just admit it, the only reason you don't like it is because GM didn't do it and Ford did. It's not an issue of like or dislike sir. Makes no difference to me. Other than as a person who buys genuine Ford Motorcraft parts for my Ford Ranger, I don't work for or do business with either Ford Motor or GM. Some fleet sales is ok. The issue is that lots of fleet sales to rental car companies, other businesses, and governments can make monthly sales reports look better but hurt brand image. Also fleet sales usually have lower profit margins than sales to real retail customers. And fleet sales can lead to car makers emphasizing price discounts and concessions over product excellence. GM has been very disciplined in reducing fleet sales in the past two years. It came down to less than 20% of all their sales last month. This has been good for GM's brand image and profitability. I thought Ford was following GM's example earlier this year when they cut fleet sales. But Ford's fleet sales went up last month and approached 35% of all sales. That's not good. John Mendel who retired as VP at American Honda was quoted by a business magazine. "A successful fleet operation is one thing, when it’s 10 percent of your volume," said John Mendel, who until April was Honda Motor Co.’s top U.S. sales executive. "But when it approaches 35 percent to 40 percent of your business, I struggle with saying that’s successful. That’s just giving cars away." Edited June 3, 2017 by rperez817 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 (edited) Some fleet sales is ok. The issue is that lots of fleet sales to rental car companies, other businesses, and governments can make monthly sales reports look better but hurt brand image. Also fleet sales usually have lower profit margins than sales to real retail customers. And fleet sales can lead to car makers emphasizing price discounts and concessions over product excellence. GM has been very disciplined in reducing fleet sales in the past two years. It came down to less than 20% of all their sales last month. This has been good for GM's brand image and profitability. I thought Ford was following GM's example earlier this year when they cut fleet sales. But Ford's fleet sales went up last month and approached 35% of all sales. That's not good. i don't think you understand the subtle difference in fleet sales. Over the past few years, both Ford and GM have significantly reduced their sales to daily rental fleets, I admit that GM has eliminated more daily rental sales than Ford but both are now at acceptable levels. Most of those daily rental sales now consist of retail trim models - no more fleet strippers. The big difference is Ford's Commercial sales in Mostly Transit van and F Series trucks. the last few months, Silverado and Sierra sales have been slipping badly where as F Series has been powering on with both retail and commercial sales. Where Ford is losing retail sales is in the car segments as those buyers move to utilities, Ford is doing a great job of re-balancing sales to minimize those losses but there is still a nett loss of buyers in retail. It just takes time to readjust products to grow sales. John Mendel who retired as VP at American Honda said "A successful fleet operation is one thing, when it’s 10 percent of your volume," said John Mendel, who until April was Honda Motor Co.’s top U.S. sales executive. "But when it approaches 35 percent to 40 percent of your business, I struggle with saying that’s successful. That’s just giving cars away." With respect to John Mendel and Honda, they are talking about cars and with that Daily Rental fleet sales.. Fords Daily rental fleet percentage is 15.7%, not 34% which is the total combined Fleet sales percentage. Some vehicle types like Transit and F Series are primarily, Commercial sales vehicles with good profit margins. Edited June 3, 2017 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 Also, GM's fleet/rental numbers have been artificially high for years because they have sold 2 versions of several models - new and old versions of products - with the old ones going exclusively to rental fleets. So once they drop those, their numbers go down significantly and quickly. It'd be one thing if they stopped this, but we continue to see them take this approach with model switchovers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 Also, GM's fleet/rental numbers have been artificially high for years because they have sold 2 versions of several models - new and old versions of products - with the old ones going exclusively to rental fleets. So once they drop those, their numbers go down significantly and quickly. It'd be one thing if they stopped this, but we continue to see them take this approach with model switchovers. Correct. Once those classic or limited badge fleet only vehicles were discontinued, that caused a sudden and significant drop in daily rental sales. hey presto, you immediately have a higher retail percentage with no added sales...Of course GM continued to build on that but you see how GM moving in two directions makes a quick turn arond on figures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 Like I said, you don't understand current fleet sales. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 (edited) And Ford sholdn't be ashamed of its strong fleet sales, the commercial side of the business is looking really strong lately. Transit has been a resounding success, rising above all the negativity of the naysayers. Two areas being addressed in the near future are full sized SUVs and Mid Sized trucks, the new Expedition and Navigator arriving later this year will add to the tidal wave of Aluminum F Series now being sold. I'm sure that there will be a lot of love for the Ranger when it finally arrives in just under 18 months time. Those two segments are the missing linchpins that will move Ford even closer to GM's monthly sales figures, all without adding anymore plants. Edited June 3, 2017 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 It's on pace to sell ~850k this year. That's $2.8 BILLION in extra revenue just on increased ATP on the F-Series alone (if it were to continue that for a full year). WOW! It's easy to see why the trucks get such a focus from Ford. What a great point and clearly, the reason Ford did such a comprehensive remake of F Series. Add to that the next gen Expedition and Navigator - man, I hope those two are a knock out success. Adding revenue by this method is sure to set Ford up well for the next decade, I hope the new team builds on that platform and takes it to a new level with more vehicles where they are needed ( logistics to California) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordtech1 Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 If average transaction prices keep going up, then I don't see an issue. As of late, a company can make the best damn car in the segment, but the market doesn't want cars right now. That being said, Ford should not get back to old ways and only have trucks in it's portfolio. The fusion is a competitive product. The focus needs a transmission yesterday. Don't let them rot as they are. I would love to know what the future plan is for cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 I would love to know what the future plan is for cars. A lot of people would, especially employees. This whole treating plans like the deepest national secrets routine is getting old. At least give a timeline beyond 'late 20__'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anbevo Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 Haha, I don't post much, but I've been reading you guys for years! You guys just need to ignore RPEREZ87. He's clearly a Government Motors fanboy troll trying to get a rise out of you guys.... and he has been very successful in that regard. Just my .02. As for the topic, I applaud Ford's solid month. Ford is playing to its strengths in Trucks and CVs and doing as well as it can in areas where it is less competitive. I think the future is bright, with all new full size SUVs and the Ranger/Bronco coming, which will improve profitability; and I believe the new leadership will improve Ford's operational performance immediately. Taking $60 Billion in government money and $70 Billion in debt forgiveness gives GM the performance edge at present, but this will change quickly (assuming Ford's new management doesn't screw up) when the next real recession hits as GM still has too many brands, overhead, and hubris!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 If average transaction prices keep going up, then I don't see an issue. As of late, a company can make the best damn car in the segment, but the market doesn't want cars right now. That being said, Ford should not get back to old ways and only have trucks in it's portfolio. The fusion is a competitive product. The focus needs a transmission yesterday. Don't let them rot as they are. I would love to know what the future plan is for cars. I agree. Cars aren't going away, and they need to remain competitive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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