Ford Sales October 2017 Up 6.2 %

[akirby]

Whatever the situation is, its flipping ridiculous. If youre going to compete in a segment, then compete to win or get out. Dont do this half assed approach.

 

If you start with plant utilization as your driver then you end up making bad product decisions.

 

Make good product decisions then figure out the plant capacity to make that happen. I can understand some of these decisions when the company was still trying to recover and rebuild itself the last decade but that's no longer the case. You have $28B sitting in the bank - use it.

[fuzzymoomoo]

You have $28B sitting in the bank - use it.

lol

[bzcat]

They were planning to lower sales on both Focus and Fusion so they could consolidate production in Hermosillo in anticipation of further drops in car sales. Stupid plan but that was the reason. So they didn’t bother spending much money on either one.

 

I don't know if that is really the case but the redesign of both cars are largely influenced by Ford Europe's needs and over there Ford is a dominant player in the C and D segments along with VW, Renault, and PSA and they all have longer model cycles than the Japanese (whom are minor league players in the segments at best).

 

We tend to view 5 years model cycle as the default because Japanese brands are mainstream brands in the US. But 6 or 7 years is normal in Europe. I'm not saying that is good or bad for Ford... just pointing out that Ford has a different competitive environment in different markets - and if Focus program makes most of its profit in Europe, then European needs and priority should be considered most important before other markets.

 

What is more troubling is the fact that Escape and Explorer are also quite long in the tooth.

[rmc523]

 

I don't know if that is really the case but the redesign of both cars are largely influenced by Ford Europe's needs and over there Ford is a dominant player in the C and D segments along with VW, Renault, and PSA and they all have longer model cycles than the Japanese (whom are minor league players in the segments at best).

 

We tend to view 5 years model cycle as the default because Japanese brands are mainstream brands in the US. But 6 or 7 years is normal in Europe. I'm not saying that is good or bad for Ford... just pointing out that Ford has a different competitive environment in different markets - and if Focus program makes most of its profit in Europe, then European needs and priority should be considered most important before other markets.

 

What is more troubling is the fact that Escape and Explorer are also quite long in the tooth.

 

6 years would be fine, which would put an all new Fusion for next year (2019 MY). The problem is the refresh (normally after 3 years) was pushed back to 2017, and it was mild at best.

 

At least we've seen mules of both Escape and Explorer. Explorer dates back to 2011, and Escape to 2013.

[akirby]

 

6 years would be fine, which would put an all new Fusion for next year (2019 MY). The problem is the refresh (normally after 3 years) was pushed back to 2017, and it was mild at best.

 

Exactly. A significant MCE in 2016 and a new tophat in 2019 for Fusion would be fine. Instead the 2018 is essentially a 6 yr old vehicle. And we don't know if we're getting a new Fusion for 2019MY - could be later.

[akirby]

 

I don't know if that is really the case but the redesign of both cars are largely influenced by Ford Europe's needs and over there Ford is a dominant player in the C and D segments along with VW, Renault, and PSA and they all have longer model cycles than the Japanese (whom are minor league players in the segments at best).

 

We tend to view 5 years model cycle as the default because Japanese brands are mainstream brands in the US. But 6 or 7 years is normal in Europe. I'm not saying that is good or bad for Ford... just pointing out that Ford has a different competitive environment in different markets - and if Focus program makes most of its profit in Europe, then European needs and priority should be considered most important before other markets.

 

But Ford is only going to sell about 60K Mondeos in Europe this year compared with 200K+ in the US alone.

[mackinaw]

 

But Ford is only going to sell about 60K Mondeos in Europe this year compared with 200K+ in the US alone.

 

Don't forget China. Ford will sell about 105,000 Mondeo's in China this year (2017).

[akirby]

 

Don't forget China. Ford will sell about 105,000 Mondeo's in China this year (2017).

 

What is the typical product cycle for China? His point was specifically about the European market and expectations.

[snooter]

Even stevie wonder could now clearly see that ford is a truck company....do tell why you would ever venture on a ford lot wanting a passenger car...the stuff on the lot is old, looks old, but is dam cheap with current incentives..i guess there is that....on the positive side i eagerly await the 18 stang...could care less what ford has anymore besides the stang...once good cars they just let rot

[rmc523]

 

Exactly. A significant MCE in 2016 and a new tophat in 2019 for Fusion would be fine. Instead the 2018 is essentially a 6 yr old vehicle. And we don't know if we're getting a new Fusion for 2019MY - could be later.

It's seeming like they'll (Fusion and MKZ) be 2020s, since we haven't seen mules or anything yet.

[rmc523]

Even stevie wonder could now clearly see that ford is a truck company....do tell why you would ever venture on a ford lot wanting a passenger car...the stuff on the lot is old, looks old, but is dam cheap with current incentives..i guess there is that....on the positive side i eagerly await the 18 stang...could care less what ford has anymore besides the stang...once good cars they just let rot

 

The sad thing is how they gained back a ton of ground with the 2012 Focus and 2013 Fusion and have let it slide away for various reasons.

[tbone]

 

6 years would be fine, which would put an all new Fusion for next year (2019 MY). The problem is the refresh (normally after 3 years) was pushed back to 2017, and it was mild at best.

 

At least we've seen mules of both Escape and Explorer. Explorer dates back to 2011, and Escape to 2013.

You mean the MCE was pathetic at best.

[tbone]

 

The sad thing is how they gained back a ton of ground with the 2012 Focus and 2013 Fusion and have let it slide away for various reasons.

This is what bothers me. They are quite capable if they want to be and then they let this happen.

[akirby]

I really thought that with the consolidation of the Euro platforms for Focus, Fusion and Escape we would see a better product cadence. But I guess Mr. Fields crapped all over that plan.

[rmc523]

I really thought that with the consolidation of the Euro platforms for Focus, Fusion and Escape we would see a better product cadence. But I guess Mr. Fields crapped all over that plan.

 

Agreed. I think the staggered launch was part of the problem, at least for Fusion/Mondeo.

 

What launched here for 2013 didn't launch there until 2015, so they probably thought it could cruise along further before needing a redesign.

[silvrsvt]

Seems like Ford had a great plan of merging its platforms together over the past five years, but hasnt had a clue as to how to keep them fresh with new styling/features/engines since then.

[jcartwright99]

The new Fusion isn't that bad as far as content goes. I think the exterior looks too similar to the 13-16. The hybrid hasn't improved. The Sport came out half baked (SUPER HEAVY) and is fast but not that sporty. I will say the powertrain options is just average (with the exception of the Sport). I think 1.5, 2.5 and 2.0 could use a bit more pep and efficiency. The 6 speed transmission (especially in the Sport) feels weird.

 

So after writing that first paragraph, it's clear the Fusion isn't class leading. Capable and competent but the Accord in my mind is the class leader.

[Harley Lover]

So after writing that first paragraph, it's clear the Fusion isn't class leading. Capable and competent but the Accord in my mind is the class leader.

 

It's interesting to read the comparison tests of the new Accord and new Camry. The consensus is that the Accord walks all over the Camry. The reviews read like Toyota built its usual appliance, while Honda worked to build an improved, upgraded car. There's a lesson there for Ford. Ford still does not have the good will that the Camry does (meaning people will buy the Camry on reputation alone, merits be damned). Ford needs to approach the next Fusion in a manner similar to what Honda did with the Accord. This goes back to the thread I started which asked the question "what if Ford treated all its products like the F150"?

[mackinaw]

 

What is the typical product cycle for China? His point was specifically about the European market and expectations.

 

I don't know. Since it's a global platform, whenever the next generation Fusion/Mondeo is ready, China will get it too.

[jpd80]

It does my head in that Ford Nth America did not stay in lockstep with global updates and buying trends with the Focus.

Currently, sales of ST RS and Titanium have strengthened significantly but no word on S SE and SEL which struggle

on with the 2.0 DI and Powershift DCT. Had Ford switched to 1.5 EB and 6FAT and 6MT, things might have been quite

different. I can attest to the difference between the two, the transformation is breath taking and makes up for most of

the other perceived shortcomings...

 

Things didn't have to be the way they are and with those changes, MAP may have been a lot busier than it currently is.

Edited November 3, 2017 by jpd80

[ice-capades]

 

The sad thing is how they gained back a ton of ground with the 2012 Focus and 2013 Fusion and have let it slide away for various reasons.

 

Even though car sales have plunged thanks to cheap gas, this is just an example of what happens when you stop product development. Thank you Mark Fields.

[silvrsvt]

I think the Focus fiasco of not replacing the DSG/2.0L DI engine was about ROI on the product (no updates means they get cheaper as they make more of them) and lack of 6AT and 1.5L I4 engines to use in them for North America.

[silvrsvt]

The Sport came out half baked (SUPER HEAVY) and is fast but not that sporty.

 

There is only so much you can do to keep weight down...having a twin turbo V6 engine with AWD isn't a recipe for a light car. The SHO "suffers" from the same shortcomings, but has a significant upcharge to them vs a regular Taurus, much like the Fusion Sport does.

 

I'm sure that a tune would go a long way in fixing whatever shortcomings it has...just like it does with the SHO.

 

Cars aren't getting any lighter...FFS a '18 Mustang GT with the 10AT weighs in around 3800lbs, but hits 12 second 1/4 miles.

[jcartwright99]

 

There is only so much you can do to keep weight down...having a twin turbo V6 engine with AWD isn't a recipe for a light car. The SHO "suffers" from the same shortcomings, but has a significant upcharge to them vs a regular Taurus, much like the Fusion Sport does.

 

I'm sure that a tune would go a long way in fixing whatever shortcomings it has...just like it does with the SHO.

 

Cars aren't getting any lighter...FFS a '18 Mustang GT with the 10AT weighs in around 3800lbs, but hits 12 second 1/4 miles.

 

Engine is nice, transmission is not. Weight is over 4100lbs. It's a notch above the regular fusion as far as handling but still leaves a lot to be desired. Lots of issues (battery drain, coolant in the oil, etc).

[brucelinc]

Unfortunately the Fusion Sport doesn't seem to respond to tuning as well as an SHO. Maybe as tuners gain more experience with them, they may find greater gains.