Ford refuses to use 9-speed GM's automatic transmission

[Assimilator]

 

Only on paper. He still buys them then complains incessantly. Then buys another one.

 

 

I don't understand what I did to offend in that post.

[Harley Lover]

 

 

I don't understand what I did to offend in that post.

 

 

You didn't.

[silvrsvt]

Have we ever learned how much torque the GM 9 speed can handle? Is it possible that to beef up the gears and bearings to handle high torque it was necessary to convert the gearbox to an 8 speed? Or is it possible that it simply cannot be modified to handle higher loads and it was more effective to add speeds to the 6F? GMs only high powered front driver is the XTS and it doesn't use the 9 speed.

 

GM is calling it a 9T50-I'm guessing the 50 is the torque rating and the SHO/MKS Ecoboost used a 6F55...so assuming they are using same rating, it seems like it can.

 

I think part of the reason for the 8 speed is Ford is using alot more Turboed engines then GM at this point.

[2b2]

And Ford is so cost conscious now it would be surprising if they didn't share the new 8/9 speed design as much as possible. And if it can't handle all those different workloads then the design or requirements were flawed.

 

I find it hard to believe that they'd cut down the 9 speed to an 8 speed for durability, only to then develop ANOTHER 8 speed based on an old 6-speed design.

can't see 3 being cheaper to build than 1 -- NOR engineer

but

CAN kinda see a reason for the third being HYBRID-ready/optimized, for lower petrol-power(=~half!) and needing to be as light as possible

Edited April 24, 2018 by 2b2

[akirby]

I don't understand what I did to offend in that post.

 

I though you were implying that the F150 10 speed and MKX 6 speed were not smooth.

[sullynd]

I can't read that article (exceeded my free limit apparently), but I'm sure it's all based on the same (potentially wrong) report.

Im not past my limit, but try putting outline.com before it.

[jpd80]

Originally, the 8/9 speed auto was developed from the 6F JV box, the different versions for different power levels

are just variations to the basic design just as there was 6F15 through to 6F55..as they will be in the new 8Fs and 9Fs

[bzcat]

Put me in the camp that says 3 different 8 speed transmissions doesn't make any sense.

 

I think the article maybe just splitting hair. The 3 different 8 speed transmissions could be just 3 different versions with different torque rating. Like how Ford has 4 different 6F versions but they are pretty much the same.

 

If we assume the GM-Ford JV FWD transmission is a further development of the existing 6F, then whether you subtract 1 gear from 9F or add 2 gears to 6F is just word play.

[jpd80]

My thoughts exactly and add to that,

 

Whatever reasons Ford had for choosing one less gear ratio, it is tied up with

delays to changes to plant and the arrival of new, improved models.

Edited April 24, 2018 by jpd80

[akirby]

Ford already said it just didn't need the extra gear so it eliminated it - less parts, less cost. Same or better driveability.

[jpd80]

Ford already said it just didn't need the extra gear so it eliminated it - less parts, less cost. Same or better driveability.

Quite odd when the company has developed a 10R wouldn't you think?

 

I think drivability / less hunting in mid gears with the GM box was a big issue that Ford avoided

...and saved money with less complexity.. I think somebody at Ford made a call to avoid the

issue and just use one less gear.

 

I wonder if the change to 8-speed make the FWD box more like the 10R's design/components?

 

Mind you, GM justifies the extra gear as making the box feel smoother and more premium

and as you say, Ford didn't see the need for any of it over an 8 speed.

Edited April 24, 2018 by jpd80

[akirby]

Quite odd when the company has developed a 10R woudln't you think?

 

Not really. In moderate driving the 10R80 is a 8 speed anyway. It skips 2nd and 4th. With lighter weight FWD transverse vehicles the additional 2 speeds probably don't help as much as with RWD trucks and suvs that go up to 470 lb/ft or higher.

[jpd80]

 

Not really. In moderate driving the 10R80 is a 8 speed anyway. It skips 2nd and 4th. With lighter weight FWD transverse vehicles the additional 2 speeds probably don't help as much as with RWD trucks and suvs that go up to 470 lb/ft or higher.

I can understand that and perhaps that shift skipping showed up a big differences with (FWD) Ecoboost engines on light cruise...

Edited April 24, 2018 by jpd80

[akirby]

Unless I’m going up a really steep hill I can keep my F150 3.5LEB at 1200 rpm at 45-50 mph all day long. That plus auto stop/start is yielding 21 mpg so far.

[rmc523]

 

Not really. In moderate driving the 10R80 is a 8 speed anyway. It skips 2nd and 4th. With lighter weight FWD transverse vehicles the additional 2 speeds probably don't help as much as with RWD trucks and suvs that go up to 470 lb/ft or higher.

 

I've noticed that too on my Mustang that it will often skip 2nd gear (and probably 4th too, I've noticed 2nd more, though) shifting up and down, depending on how much you're pushing the gas/brake, of course.

[kyle]

I can't read that article (exceeded my free limit apparently), but I'm sure it's all based on the same (potentially wrong) report.

This is when you open it in a different web browser! Im always over my limit then go to IE:)

[akirby]

This is when you open it in a different web browser! Im always over my limit then go to IE:)

Hard to use IE on an ipad. Plus I hate IE to begin with.

[2b2]

This is when you open it in a different web browser! Im always over my limit then go to IE:)

& ONLY then go to IE

[SoonerLS]

Hard to use IE on an ipad. Plus I hate IE to begin with.

No, but you can use Firefox on an iPad...

[akirby]

No, but you can use Firefox on an iPad...

I know but I don’t have it installed. The older I get the lazier I get.

 

Plus I hate to pass up a chance to dis Microsoft.

[fuzzymoomoo]

Never pass up a chance to diss Microsoft

[sullynd]

Hard to use IE on an ipad. Plus I hate IE to begin with.

You can use Edge.

 

(Ducks and runs)

[sullynd]

[J-150]

Ford already said it just didn't need the extra gear so it eliminated it - less parts, less cost. Same or better driveability.

If that was truly an issue, we'd still be installing a 4 speed.

[akirby]

If that was truly an issue, we'd still be installing a 4 speed.

It was specific to the initial 9 speed design in specific vehicles. Ford thought the 8 speed ratios worked better. 8 speed trannys are common. 9 and 10 speeds are not outside Ford and GM.