Assimilator Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 Only on paper. He still buys them then complains incessantly. Then buys another one. I don't understand what I did to offend in that post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harley Lover Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 I don't understand what I did to offend in that post. You didn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 Have we ever learned how much torque the GM 9 speed can handle? Is it possible that to beef up the gears and bearings to handle high torque it was necessary to convert the gearbox to an 8 speed? Or is it possible that it simply cannot be modified to handle higher loads and it was more effective to add speeds to the 6F? GMs only high powered front driver is the XTS and it doesn't use the 9 speed. GM is calling it a 9T50-I'm guessing the 50 is the torque rating and the SHO/MKS Ecoboost used a 6F55...so assuming they are using same rating, it seems like it can. I think part of the reason for the 8 speed is Ford is using alot more Turboed engines then GM at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2b2 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 (edited) And Ford is so cost conscious now it would be surprising if they didn't share the new 8/9 speed design as much as possible. And if it can't handle all those different workloads then the design or requirements were flawed. I find it hard to believe that they'd cut down the 9 speed to an 8 speed for durability, only to then develop ANOTHER 8 speed based on an old 6-speed design. can't see 3 being cheaper to build than 1 -- NOR engineer but CAN kinda see a reason for the third being HYBRID-ready/optimized, for lower petrol-power(=~half!) and needing to be as light as possible Edited April 24, 2018 by 2b2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 I don't understand what I did to offend in that post. I though you were implying that the F150 10 speed and MKX 6 speed were not smooth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 I can't read that article (exceeded my free limit apparently), but I'm sure it's all based on the same (potentially wrong) report. Im not past my limit, but try putting outline.com before it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 Originally, the 8/9 speed auto was developed from the 6F JV box, the different versions for different power levels are just variations to the basic design just as there was 6F15 through to 6F55..as they will be in the new 8Fs and 9Fs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 Put me in the camp that says 3 different 8 speed transmissions doesn't make any sense. I think the article maybe just splitting hair. The 3 different 8 speed transmissions could be just 3 different versions with different torque rating. Like how Ford has 4 different 6F versions but they are pretty much the same. If we assume the GM-Ford JV FWD transmission is a further development of the existing 6F, then whether you subtract 1 gear from 9F or add 2 gears to 6F is just word play. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 (edited) My thoughts exactly and add to that, Whatever reasons Ford had for choosing one less gear ratio, it is tied up with delays to changes to plant and the arrival of new, improved models. Edited April 24, 2018 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 Ford already said it just didn't need the extra gear so it eliminated it - less parts, less cost. Same or better driveability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 (edited) Ford already said it just didn't need the extra gear so it eliminated it - less parts, less cost. Same or better driveability. Quite odd when the company has developed a 10R wouldn't you think? I think drivability / less hunting in mid gears with the GM box was a big issue that Ford avoided ...and saved money with less complexity.. I think somebody at Ford made a call to avoid the issue and just use one less gear. I wonder if the change to 8-speed make the FWD box more like the 10R's design/components? Mind you, GM justifies the extra gear as making the box feel smoother and more premium and as you say, Ford didn't see the need for any of it over an 8 speed. Edited April 24, 2018 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 Quite odd when the company has developed a 10R woudln't you think? Not really. In moderate driving the 10R80 is a 8 speed anyway. It skips 2nd and 4th. With lighter weight FWD transverse vehicles the additional 2 speeds probably don't help as much as with RWD trucks and suvs that go up to 470 lb/ft or higher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 (edited) Not really. In moderate driving the 10R80 is a 8 speed anyway. It skips 2nd and 4th. With lighter weight FWD transverse vehicles the additional 2 speeds probably don't help as much as with RWD trucks and suvs that go up to 470 lb/ft or higher. I can understand that and perhaps that shift skipping showed up a big differences with (FWD) Ecoboost engines on light cruise... Edited April 24, 2018 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 Unless I’m going up a really steep hill I can keep my F150 3.5LEB at 1200 rpm at 45-50 mph all day long. That plus auto stop/start is yielding 21 mpg so far. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 Not really. In moderate driving the 10R80 is a 8 speed anyway. It skips 2nd and 4th. With lighter weight FWD transverse vehicles the additional 2 speeds probably don't help as much as with RWD trucks and suvs that go up to 470 lb/ft or higher. I've noticed that too on my Mustang that it will often skip 2nd gear (and probably 4th too, I've noticed 2nd more, though) shifting up and down, depending on how much you're pushing the gas/brake, of course. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyle Posted April 26, 2018 Share Posted April 26, 2018 I can't read that article (exceeded my free limit apparently), but I'm sure it's all based on the same (potentially wrong) report. This is when you open it in a different web browser! Im always over my limit then go to IE:) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted April 26, 2018 Share Posted April 26, 2018 This is when you open it in a different web browser! Im always over my limit then go to IE:) Hard to use IE on an ipad. Plus I hate IE to begin with. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2b2 Posted April 26, 2018 Share Posted April 26, 2018 This is when you open it in a different web browser! Im always over my limit then go to IE:) & ONLY then go to IE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted April 26, 2018 Share Posted April 26, 2018 Hard to use IE on an ipad. Plus I hate IE to begin with. No, but you can use Firefox on an iPad... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted April 26, 2018 Share Posted April 26, 2018 No, but you can use Firefox on an iPad... I know but I don’t have it installed. The older I get the lazier I get. Plus I hate to pass up a chance to dis Microsoft. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted April 26, 2018 Share Posted April 26, 2018 Never pass up a chance to diss Microsoft 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted April 26, 2018 Share Posted April 26, 2018 Hard to use IE on an ipad. Plus I hate IE to begin with. You can use Edge. (Ducks and runs) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted April 26, 2018 Share Posted April 26, 2018 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-150 Posted April 26, 2018 Share Posted April 26, 2018 Ford already said it just didn't need the extra gear so it eliminated it - less parts, less cost. Same or better driveability. If that was truly an issue, we'd still be installing a 4 speed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted April 26, 2018 Share Posted April 26, 2018 If that was truly an issue, we'd still be installing a 4 speed. It was specific to the initial 9 speed design in specific vehicles. Ford thought the 8 speed ratios worked better. 8 speed trannys are common. 9 and 10 speeds are not outside Ford and GM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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