rperez817 Posted September 25, 2018 Share Posted September 25, 2018 MKT is well liked by limousine operators. Don't know how profitable the model is for Ford though. A bigger question is whether the Lincoln brand itself will linger on with no set end date. Car and Driver says that Lincoln is the "most obvious candidate" for what Ford might cancel next. https://www.caranddriver.com/features/ford-cars-v8-engine-dead "[Ford] has us wondering what the company might bail on next.The most obvious candidate is Lincoln. The brand's sales have been down despite the recent release of the new Navigator and the imminent arrivals of the Nautilus and the Aviator. Ford killed its Mercury brand when consumers caught on that it was little more than a source of Ford clones wearing glitzier trim and higher price tags. Today, Lincoln sells only a single model that isn't just a gussied-up Ford, and its sales struggles stand in marked contrast to the fortunes of Jaguar, Land Rover, and Volvo, three brands that Ford sold to new owners for dollar-store prices. Lincoln is also a primarily domestic brand with little global presence. A big push into China might yet save it, in the manner that Buick survived General Motors' bankruptcy largely on the strength of its sales in Asia, but no one has proven yet that buyers overseas are any more enamored with it than Americans are." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willwll313wll Posted September 25, 2018 Share Posted September 25, 2018 (edited) MKT is well liked by limousine operators. Don't know how profitable the model is for Ford though. A bigger question is whether the Lincoln brand itself will linger on with no set end date. Car and Driver says that Lincoln is the "most obvious candidate" for what Ford might cancel next. https://www.caranddriver.com/features/ford-cars-v8-engine-dead These people dont know what theyre talking about. They said Lincoln has only a single model thats not a guissed up Ford. Thats throwing dirt. Lincoln vehicles are unique in their own right. So what they share a platform, sometimes base powertrain, and important technology with some ford models. Yeah they have room for improvement in carving their own lane again but lets give credit when credit is due. This isnt a 1st gen MKZ/Fusion, Lincoln Mark LT/F150 situation happening at Lincoln. Theyve grown past that. Edited September 25, 2018 by Willwll313wll 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonj80 Posted September 25, 2018 Share Posted September 25, 2018 MKT is well liked by limousine operators. Don't know how profitable the model is for Ford though. A bigger question is whether the Lincoln brand itself will linger on with no set end date. Car and Driver says that Lincoln is the "most obvious candidate" for what Ford might cancel next. https://www.caranddriver.com/features/ford-cars-v8-engine-dead Car and Driver is trying to get clicks as they are basically useless in today's world. The new architectures will help separate Lincoln from Ford's a bit more. Though they will still get called out for it where GM, Toyota and VW can use the same platform and its totally okay. Ford is racing to move Lincoln production to China ASAP, (https://phys.org/news/2018-09-ford-boost-production-china-tariffs.html) I wouldn't be surprised to see the Corsair debut there sooner than here if they can pull it up, MKC is Lincolns most important vehicle in China, That should free up some units at the plant as well for Escape production as well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted September 25, 2018 Share Posted September 25, 2018 (edited) MKT is well liked by limousine operators. Don't know how profitable the model is for Ford though. A bigger question is whether the Lincoln brand itself will linger on with no set end date. Car and Driver says that Lincoln is the "most obvious candidate" for what Ford might cancel next. https://www.caranddriver.com/features/ford-cars-v8-engine-dead . C&D is a very dubious source of information and your supplied article is sheer speculation on their part. One thing to remember is that the Ford family is in control of the company for better or for worse. Lincoln will remain as it was Mulally himself that saved the marque despite his desire to shutter it. He was able to convince the Ford family to shut down Mercury (Edsel Fords' creation) to save Lincoln (Edsel Fords' purchase and vision of what luxury should be). The Ford family, as long as they hold the reins of the company will always celebrate Edsel and his achievements for Ford Motor Company. The car division named after him was a flop that will always be attributed to his son as a well meaning effort that fell woefully short and, sadly, forever tarnished Edsels name. They will do nothing further to harm his legacy within FoMoCo. Edited September 25, 2018 by twintornados 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted September 25, 2018 Share Posted September 25, 2018 Thank you all for your insights regarding C&D's prediction that Lincoln will get the axe. I thought that maybe C&D knew something that we don't. But sounds like that's not the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted September 25, 2018 Share Posted September 25, 2018 You really have to stop believing everything you read or see on TV. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted September 25, 2018 Share Posted September 25, 2018 Thank you all for your insights regarding C&D's prediction that Lincoln will get the axe. I thought that maybe C&D knew something that we don't. But sounds like that's not the case. Very rarely do the likes of C&D and Motor Trend truly have any inside information when it comes to Ford. They aren't very well liked within the company. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted September 25, 2018 Share Posted September 25, 2018 There is no reason for Ford to kill Lincoln. The very reason C/D cited (that Lincoln is just Ford with different badge) is the reason why it will not be killed. The profit margin alone is worth it. Mercury was a different story... Shutting down Mercury didn't cost Ford very much because all Mercury dealers were originally Lincoln dealers so Ford didn't have to terminate any franchise agreement. They just compensated some floor plan expenses. Killing Lincoln will involve buying out franchises. That's a fools errand at this point. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted September 26, 2018 Author Share Posted September 26, 2018 There is no reason for Ford to kill Lincoln. The very reason C/D cited (that Lincoln is just Ford with different badge) is the reason why it will not be killed. The profit margin alone is worth it. . Thats why I laugh at the articles claiming Ford is losing $$$ on Lincoln product X. They arent, because the costs are being shared by other products and Lincoln has a significant markup over a similarly equipped Ford. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 What about developing CD6 versions of Flex and MKT to better fill their intended roles. Flex = true Traverse competitor while MKT = a true Town Car replacement. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 What about developing CD6 versions of Flex and MKT to better fill their intended roles. Flex = true Traverse competitor while MKT = a true Town Car replacement. Seems that is an investment Ford is unwilling to make. MKT makes sense to not do that with because Lincoln is trying to shed that fleet special airport shuttle image. Why Ford wouldn't continue on with a new generation Flex puzzles me a bit though. Seems like a big enough incremental product to both keep Oakville running a little more and fit within that mythical "white space" box they've mentioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 Seems that is an investment Ford is unwilling to make. MKT makes sense to not do that with because Lincoln is trying to shed that fleet special airport shuttle image. The horrible truth is that the more they try to use MKT for fleet, the more liveries wanted Navigator. I think they need a better MKT to take over those duties as there's no shame in being known for comfortable air transport, especially by those who travel that way... Why Ford wouldn't continue on with a new generation Flex puzzles me a bit though. Seems like a big enough incremental product to both keep Oakville running a little more and fit within that mythical "white space" box they've mentioned. Flex is very area centric - popular in California and I think Florida, I'm wondering if a better roomier RWD version might hit the original Flex target audience much better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 The horrible truth is that the more they try to use MKT for fleet, the more liveries wanted Navigator. I think they need a better MKT to take over those duties as there's no shame in being known for comfortable air transport, especially by those who travel that way... Thats the thing though, Lincoln is trying to move away from that area in general. Flex is very area centric - popular in California and I think Florida, I'm wondering if a better roomier RWD version might hit the original Flex target audience much better. Again, I live in the land where everyone gets A-plan so it's not necessarily an accurate gauge, but I see a ton of Flexes around here. I don't really think they need to make it any roomier, it's already pretty roomy. Definitely more than the current Explorer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 The Flex has 5" longer wheelbase, so more roomy for the second row but first and second row shoulder room is 3" less than Explorer... If CD6 Explorer is as big of a hit as i expect, Ford may need to offer a near product to complement it and add sales in a different direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 Well, if Oakville gets "converted" to build CD6 vehicles, that is a boon for them "post tariff" ...build more CD6 product which everyone expects to be a successful chassis and have the <ahem> flexibility to build a worthy Flex (and MKT Town Car) replacement at the same time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 (edited) Again, I live in the land where everyone gets A-plan so it's not necessarily an accurate gauge, but I see a ton of Flexes around here. I don't really think they need to make it any roomier, it's already pretty roomy. Definitely more than the current Explorer. I've been seeing a lot of Flexes around here, too. It may just be that I notice them more since my folks got theirs. And I agree; the Flex is much roomier than the '12 Explorer they had. Personally, I'd like a little more leg room in the second row, but it's not really bad in that department. Edited October 1, 2018 by SoonerLS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 I've been seeing a lot of Flexes around here, too. It may just be that I notice them more since my folks got theirs. And I agree; the Flex is much roomier than the '12 Explorer they had. Personally, I'd like a little more leg room in the second row, but it's not really bad in that department. In the SECOND row? It's massive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 In the SECOND row? It's massive. If you're a midget, maybe. I'm most decidedly not a medium height, medium build kind of guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 If you're a midget, maybe. I'm most decidedly not a medium height, medium build kind of guy. We're talking about the Flex? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assimilator Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 (edited) It's hard to read Lincoln right now because Ford stopped talking about them, but they have a slate of solid new products coming onboard that have to deliver the goods for them. I think it's just a matter of getting Ford to a healthier state before talking about Lincolns next 5 year plan. I'm sure trade tensions are throwing some things into flux since China is their primary growth target. I'm not sure how much money they are losing on Lincoln right now, but they also don't have a tremendous amount invested. I think they are doing all the right things to isolate their Chinese and North American operations so they operate within their own jurisdictions instead of trading, which I'm sure adds to cost. I still think there is a significant risk that Lincoln will eventually be shuttered under increased economic pressure, it really depends on the health of Ford and the market. I've been waiting for Lincoln to turn that corner for decades and it never comes so I no longer expect it to happen. If it does happen, great...but I no longer judge Lincoln on how many more cars it sells. Edited October 1, 2018 by Assimilator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 I'd like a little more leg room in the second row, but it's not really bad in that department. Huh? Do you have the seats slid all the way back? I haven't been in a vehicle with more rear seat legroom. In the SECOND row? It's massive. IKR!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevensecondsuv Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 (edited) ...I haven't been in a vehicle with more rear seat legroom.Well apparently you haven't ridden in a Town Car. 2018 Ford Flex 2nd seat legroom: 44.3 inches 2011 Lincoln Town Car rear legroom: 45.4 inches [/mafia] Edited October 1, 2018 by Sevensecondsuv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 Well apparently you haven't ridden in a Town Car. 2018 Ford Flex 2nd seat legroom: 44.3 inches 2011 Lincoln Town Car rear legroom: 45.4 inches [/mafia] honest question and I'm not trying to be an ass. Is that extra inch really a dealbreaker? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 Well apparently you haven't ridden in a Town Car. 2018 Ford Flex 2nd seat legroom: 44.3 inches 2011 Lincoln Town Car rear legroom: 45.4 inches [/mafia] Nope, I've never been arrested or been in a taxi. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 honest question and I'm not trying to be an ass. Is that extra inch really a dealbreaker? Depends who you ask.... Counterpoint could be it's not the size that matters but how you use it... ...oh you meant legroom...... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.