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Bronco world premier March 2020, Bronco Sport April 2020

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1 hour ago, fuzzymoomoo said:


So reading tea leaves based on this and your previous comments, I'm thinking I'm probably not too far off in thinking that if NG Ranger is a true little brother to F-150 then a Bronco pickup fills the void of a lack of Ranger Raptor 

What if there’s a NG Ranger Raptor?

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1 hour ago, jpd80 said:

What if there’s a NG Ranger Raptor?

I wonder if there might also be a Ranger Raptor? If Ford is serious about making all these different sub brands,

 

Mustang = Road Sports

Bronco = Rock Crawling

Raptor = Desert Runner

 

Following those categories, you could argue for a bronco PU being a rock crawler and Raptor Ranger being a desert truck, and that would be the differention. Is that enough to make a viable business case? I honestly don't know.

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5 minutes ago, probowler said:

I wonder if there might also be a Ranger Raptor? If Ford is serious about making all these different sub brands,

 

Mustang = Road Sports

Bronco = Rock Crawling

Raptor = Desert Runner

 

Following those categories, you could argue for a bronco PU being a rock crawler and Raptor Ranger being a desert truck, and that would be the differention. Is that enough to make a viable business case? I honestly don't know.


I like where your head is

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6 hours ago, probowler said:

I wonder if there might also be a Ranger Raptor? If Ford is serious about making all these different sub brands,

 

Mustang = Road Sports

Bronco = Rock Crawling

Raptor = Desert Runner

 

Following those categories, you could argue for a bronco PU being a rock crawler and Raptor Ranger being a desert truck, and that would be the differention. Is that enough to make a viable business case? I honestly don't know.

 

Except they've apparently opted to build the Bronco with IFS, which is hardly an optimal choice for your Rock Crawling category.  It would have made far more sense if there was some clear mechanical difference between Ranger and Bronco so they could fill different off road or sport niches.

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This sounds a lot like all the angst around the mustang switch to IRS. Jeep stands alone with SFA now that the the G wagon switched. Live with it, it is going to be IFS.  If you can’t, buy a wrangler and enjoy the ride for the 99% of the miles on flat ground.

https://www.drivingline.com/articles/5-reasons-why-your-solid-axle-rig-is-obsolete/

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GM apparently thinks there’s enough market for them to have two offerings in the midsize truck category. And then there’s the rumors of the Dakota coming back which would give FCA two midsizers. Ford having two doesn’t seem like such a big deal to me. The bronco truck would probably be relatively cheap for them to produce anyways. I’d guess that it would share almost all of its parts (minus the bed sheet metal) with either the bronco suv or the ranger. 
 

it’s the same argument for the escape and baby bronco. They are sharing enough parts to be cost effective but the top hats are different to cater to different markets.

Edited by T-dubz

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13 hours ago, jpd80 said:

As far as I can tell, a Bronco pick up was not intended part of the original product development scope or final lock in products. So if there is a Bronco Pick up, then it will be at least a further two years behind the December job 1 kick off.

 

That is exactly the way I have heard it will happen.

 

2020 - Bronco

2021 - Ranger

2022 - Bronco pickup

2023 - Everest (for global markets)

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25 minutes ago, T-dubz said:

GM apparently thinks there’s enough market for them to have two offerings in the midsize truck category. 


No, they have one midsizer with two grilles and two badges because they’re scared to kill the GMC stickers.

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7 hours ago, pictor said:

This sounds a lot like all the angst around the mustang switch to IRS. Jeep stands alone with SFA now ...

 

And every proclaimed off roader is measured against the Wrangler, and the review will read something like "While it's not as capable off road as a Wrangler, it does blah blah blah"  ... Every time.  Even in markets where the Wrangler is barely an option.  

 

The parts of a SFA are more rugged (physically thicker and stronger, fewer in number), and cheaper and easier to equip for hard use (lift, big tires, etc).  They provide better articulation, and better traction under articulation.  The only reason to put IFS on such a short wheelbase front engine vehicle is to give it "car like" handling on the road.   The Bronco's basic geometry and physics make it an inherently poor choice for high speed like the Raptor lineup -- and slow speed off roading is all about torque, articulation, and traction ... which is what breaks IFS parts.

 

Ford is dumbing down their "off road mustang" for the people who aren't going to drive it off road.  Hopefully it won't be so crippled that its not worth the effort to do an axle swap on.

 

 

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55 minutes ago, Stampede.Offroad said:

The parts of a SFA are more rugged (physically thicker and stronger, fewer in number), and cheaper and easier to equip for hard use (lift, big tires, etc).  They provide better articulation, and better traction under articulation.  The only reason to put IFS on such a short wheelbase front engine vehicle is to give it "car like" handling on the road.   The Bronco's basic geometry and physics make it an inherently poor choice for high speed like the Raptor lineup -- and slow speed off roading is all about torque, articulation, and traction ... which is what breaks IFS parts.


Works pretty well for F-150 Raptor thatsnoneofmy.jpg

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1 hour ago, Stampede.Offroad said:

 The Bronco's basic geometry and physics make it an inherently poor choice for high speed like the Raptor lineup 

And yet there's a Ranger Raptor that's has a super capable chassis so similar to Bronco.....

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5 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:


Buh.. buh... buh... IFS is trash!

Of course it is, Ford's crippling Bronco on purpose, they should just copy Wrangler....

(Sarcasm)

Edited by jpd80

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1 hour ago, snooter said:

Stampede is not wrong....ford wimped out

IMO, the only reason Ford wimped out is because it won't have an IRS to match the IFS... 

 

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11 minutes ago, CoolScoop said:

IMO, the only reason Ford wimped out is because it won't have an IRS to match the IFS... 

 

Woah, careful with that hot take you might burn somebody!

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In all honesty I’d rather have an IFS having ridden in SFA vehicles. Bronco doesn't have to be the ultimate extreme off-road vehicle to be competitive or meet the goals it sets out to have. In this genre, most people want something they can take out camping, do some light off-roading and be good in inclement weather.  That is all you are going to do with a stock Wrangler as it is. 
 

The aftermarket will give you the goodies if you want it. 

Edited by Anthony

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4 hours ago, jpd80 said:

And yet there's a Ranger Raptor that's has a super capable chassis so similar to Bronco.....

 

I doubt there's anything wrong with the chassis.  What is different is the length.  The Ranger, like fast off roaders, is long -- and when a racer is going to modify it, they're going to make it even longer. 

 

Long + speed = stable. 

 

Funny cars get stretched, and so do desert racers.  

 

Stability is not the issue with low speed technical trails.  It is maneuverability, articulation, and maintaining traction.  Shorter wheelbases and narrower bodies work better there.  But Ford is still pushing 'fast' off roading with the Bronco marketing which makes no sense for a vehicle that is purposely short. So I'll repeat it ... The Bronco's basic geometry and physics make it an inherently poor choice for high speed.

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5 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:


Works pretty well for F-150 Raptor 

 

You see a lot of 20' long 8' wide trucks out on tight technical trails?  I sure don't.

 

Or maybe you meant all the F150 Raptors at the mall wren't breaking CV joints ... because they're not articulating.  An IFS has two joints to the one that a stick axle has, because they're forced to use one to get vertical movement.  Twice as many weak points doesn't sound like much of an advantage to me.

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The problem I have with IFS is what advantages does it offer over Solid Axle?? We know SFA offers plenty of advantages, just don’t understand the reasoning behind saddling it with IFS..

And don’t give me on road manners as Ford has gotten the Super Duty to be every bit as good as GM HD’s when it comes to on road driving. No reason they can’t do it with the Bronco they just decided to cheap out.

Edited by Steve557

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21 minutes ago, Steve557 said:

The problem I have with IFS is what advantages does it offer over Solid Axle?? We know SFA offers plenty of advantages, just don’t understand the reasoning behind saddling it with IFS..

And don’t give me on road manners as Ford has gotten the Super Duty to be every bit as good as GM HD’s when it comes to on road driving. No reason they can’t do it with the Bronco they just decided to cheap out.

 

Funnily enough, it would probably be cheaper to have a SFA.  In modern manufacturing the simple heavy steel components of a stick axle would be less expensive than whole bunch of alloy parts needed for IFS.  Slap it in the Ranger too for economy of scale and compete with the Gladiator.

 

I don't think you'll find anyone who wants to argue that Ford isn't capable of making another stick axle perform properly for the T6 platform ... 'cuz they already put one in the Troller T4.

 

I suspect its just a matter of Ford fearing not being able to get enough current buyers to move from a less expensive Escape / Ranger / etc. into a Bronco if it doesn't have the familiar car-like handling physical sensation for the driver.

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2 hours ago, Stampede.Offroad said:

 

Funnily enough, it would probably be cheaper to have a SFA.  In modern manufacturing the simple heavy steel components of a stick axle would be less expensive than whole bunch of alloy parts needed for IFS.  Slap it in the Ranger too for economy of scale and compete with the Gladiator.

 

I don't think you'll find anyone who wants to argue that Ford isn't capable of making another stick axle perform properly for the T6 platform ... 'cuz they already put one in the Troller T4.

 

I suspect its just a matter of Ford fearing not being able to get enough current buyers to move from a less expensive Escape / Ranger / etc. into a Bronco if it doesn't have the familiar car-like handling physical sensation for the driver.

Troller T4 is not related to T6, its just a parts bin share from T6 Ranger

(theengine, gearbox, door mechanisms and HVAC componentry.)

the chassis and caxles are all troller design

 

Your assumptions regarding Bronco on T6 are pants on backwards, there's only a only a small demographic that wants

a showroom Bronco to be an extreme off road vehicle. To the extent, that SFA and decoupling anti-roll bars are are just

not on this product envelope. It will have a much better balance of on road performance and that a crappy old SFA will

never ever match. Jeeps ruggedness is its own short coming, some would say, a liability when compared to Bronco,

the Gladiator Mojave is an example of just how shit scared Jeep is of Bronco, they're manoeuvring now as best they

can but it won't be enough...I'm predicting lots of Wrangler defectors will go to Bronco along with other new buyers,

its just a different mix of skills that better suits the bulk of new buyers who want an all road capable vehicle.

 

 

 

Edited by jpd80

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